I have finally gotten to the point where I feel my ears are telling me I need to make the jump from digital modeling to tube amps...I thought this day would never come, but as I have gotten older and my playing has gotten better/more mature, I can hear the subtle nuances that just make all the difference....
So now here's my problem. I think I want to go with a small rack setup so that I can keep everything portable, and just buy a 2X12 cabinet, either a Mesa or Marshall.
Could someone give me a quick rundown of what I will need? Basically, I just need a preamp and a poweramp, right?
I was thinking either a Mesa Boogie Triaxis or ADA MP-1 for the preamp (the MP-1 of course being more affordable, and probably a good starting point), and a Mesa 2:90 for the power amp.
What do you guys think? Any suggestions are very welcome and wanted, as this will be my first rack setup!!
consider a Voodoo Lab Preamp, I have one and it ROCKS! Great tone...all tube.... and it sounds pretty good even when u are recording direct (which is something the Triaxis and the MP-1 really sucks at). And it has oodles of gain and it's very dynamic. Listen to Blues Saraceno's demo....I think it's a good representation of what the preamp has to offer...
but there's no effects loop or midi so it's a no frills type of preamp. But I found it a lot easier to tweak and get a good sound out of it than a Triaxis. Triaxis really takes some patience.
I came to the same realization a few months ago, but i'm taking baby steps to get there. I'm still using my trusty GT-6 to generate most of my tones, but i'm powering it with a Peavey Classic 50/50 into a Genz Benz G-Flex.
Once i shed my need to run through at least a dozen different effects patches over the course of a short set, i'll likely simplify further.
I *really* like the sound of the Mesa Rectifiers. The clean channel is so sweet, and the distortion is just monstrous into a Mesa 212. Costs double what my current rig cost me, though.
I read your post and moreso the replies with great interest because after playing Line 6 stuff for about 4 years now, I'm also interested in dialing in some more authentic tube tones. The new Mesa Dual Rectifier Road King looks incredible allowing for multiple preamp, poweramp, and rectifier options but looks pretty pricey. I need to check out the Mesa Nomad stuff as I've heard great things about them. I'm also to the point where I've slowly built the guitar collection to provide for a wide array of tones (classic Fender, Gibson, my favorite G&L, seven strings, nylon string) and now need to focus on amps.
Love the Line 6 stuff but it still doesn't quite capture tube tone absolutely.
I would recommend staying away from the 2:90 unless you are playing stadiums. The thing with tubes is, to really make them sound good, you need to drive them. The other thing with tubes is that they are louder than solid state. the 2:90 is giving you just over 180 watts of tube tone, and thats clean power... translation - freakin loud.
I use a similar setup (rack with 2 1x12 cabs) and Im using the mp1 (love it to death, and honestly I think it sounds better than the triaxis), but Im using the boogie 20/20 power amp. 44w of class A tube power.... I turn the thing about halfway up to get over the drums. The advantage of the lower powered amp is that you can turn it up higher (drive the tubes harder) while maintaining reasonable volume levels.
Goddamit, guys, PLEASE STOP using the term "Class A". None of the production push-pull amps is Class A. None, period. Not even Vox or Matchless. With 20/20 it's the opposite, it's as close to class B as it can be without ruining the tone.
BTW, I owned a 20/20. The only thing I didn't like about it was a noisy cooling fan inside. It can only be heard at bedroom volumes, but I'm at bedroom volume levels most of the time.
Goddamit, guys, PLEASE STOP using the term "Class A". None of the production push-pull amps is Class A. None, period. Not even Vox or Matchless. With 20/20 it's the opposite, it's as close to class B as it can be without ruining the tone.
Don't stay away from the 2:90 because of its power rating, listen to it and get it if you like what you hear.
I seriously recommend that you try out the VHT 2/50/2, I used to have a Mesa 2:90 and it was the best sounding power amp I had heard until I got my hands on the 2/50/2. It's better sounding in every possible way and it even has a usable "half drive" mode (the half drive of the 2:90 sounds horrible), so I sold the 2:90 ad I'm still extremely pleased with my sound.
It's also cheaper than the 2:90 and use 2 tubes per side (the 2:90 use four tubes per side) which means lower maintainance cost as well.
How about a Carvin Quad-X preamp? 4 independent channels, each with its' own effects loop. Footswitchable and on board midi. 9 - 12ax7a tubes in this one. Separate reverb loop and a stereo master loop. Cabinet voiced output for DI.
I think I saw one recently on ebay. Can't remember the prices though.
I played through a Mesa Road King and it sounded incredible, I just can't afford $2700...that's why I am thinking of going rack mounted....I can probably score a good sounding preamp and a good sounding power amp for cheaper than I could get a head for, and possibly grab a TC Electronics G-Major for effects...and then get a really decent 2X12 cabinet so that I can play at bedroom level or at gig level....
So far we have discussed the Voodoo Labs and a little bit about the MP-1...any more suggestions? I think I would like a Triaxis for "modern" tones, but I don't know if I can afford that at this point....so I am looking for a cheaper all-tube preamp that can nail a modern tone, a great clean tone, and a good vintage lead tone....I was thinking the MP-1, but I am worried it would sound a little thin for high-gain chunk...which the Triaxis would excel at.
Or you can get something cheaper (but still non-rack) than Road King and save your dough. The thing with rack setups is that most of them are stereo. You aren't going to use stereo live (due to phase effects between cabinets standing far from each other) and you have to buy two cabs to fully use it at home. Also, it is unlikely that you will get a spring reverb with your rack setup and spring reverb IMO is the best thing since sliced bread. Now let's see what you get with the head. You can get spring reverb. Your power amp is matched to your preamp. Overall a head will be lighter than a similar rack setup with the same power. No wire mess anywhere. And it's actually cheaper than rack setup if you buy used. The only thing I don't like about heads is that it's not as convenient to use rackmount FX units with it. But why the heck needs anything but spring reverb anyway? :lol:
Goddamit, guys, PLEASE STOP using the term "Class A". None of the production push-pull amps is Class A. None, period. Not even Vox or Matchless. With 20/20 it's the opposite, it's as close to class B as it can be without ruining the tone.
If you like the Mesa sound, check out the Rectifier Solo Head 50 (or the Rect-o-Verb if you want built-in spring reverb).
It's only two channels, but you get the same three modes on the clean and dirty channels as its big brothers, as well as a switchable effects loop. And at 50 all-tube watts, it's loud, and it sounds spectacular through a Mesa Rectifier 212.
How about a Carvin Quad-X preamp? 4 independent channels, each with its' own effects loop. Footswitchable and on board midi. 9 - 12ax7a tubes in this one. Separate reverb loop and a stereo master loop. Cabinet voiced output for DI.
I think I saw one recently on ebay. Can't remember the prices though.
I was thinking about a Mesa Boogie Single Recto...I love the sound of a 50-watt head, and I don't need a lot of wattage, because the places we will be playing are small clubs anyway, and they have their own P.A.s too...
So I dunno....maybe a Single Rectifier head/combo, a G Major, and a MIDI foot controller....that might do it right there
Sorry dude, that message wasn't directed to you. You may know something about electronics, but someone who calls Mesa 20/20 Class A amp really may need some clarification after reading that article. I've merely offered him my help with this.
I have finally gotten to the point where I feel my ears are telling me I need to make the jump from digital modeling to tube amps...I thought this day would never come, but as I have gotten older and my playing has gotten better/more mature, I can hear the subtle nuances that just make all the difference....
So now here's my problem. I think I want to go with a small rack setup so that I can keep everything portable, and just buy a 2X12 cabinet, either a Mesa or Marshall.
Could someone give me a quick rundown of what I will need? Basically, I just need a preamp and a poweramp, right?
Hey Abe! I don't want to tell you what to do, or what to look for, but after a few years of floundering about, this is what I ended up doing... I was looking for a lot of versatility, and great tone (of course) - basically, I'm a cover band guitarist so I have to get a lot of tones out of something that's portable, and this fits the bill... I didn't have to go with the two preamps - either one would have worked perfectly well for me - but I liked them both so much that I went the extra yard and added the Peavey switcher so I could jump between the two at will... As to effects, I find the G-Major actually sounds considerably better in-line than in the effects loop of either preamp. microdmitri suggests spring reverb isn't available for racks, but there are a number of units that can be found on the used market - my favorite is an inexpensive Peavey 1-spacer called the Peavey Valveverb that not only gives you an excellent, tube-driven spring reverb, but a great Tremolo as well (hard to set the mix to optomize both, tho') - they can be found around the web with a little searching and patience for under $225... Anyway, the point is that imho, racks offer the greatest flexibility, and EVERYTHING is available for them. Besides, they can be a lot of fun to fuss with - changing individual components is easy and quick, and so you can mess about with a variety of effects options (spring reverb or digital effects unit?), or change preamps or poweramps easily, and if you're buying the stuff used, you can get all or most of your investment back on resale if you decide a particular component isn't to your liking. Good luck with your tone search!
I just spent most of my downtime at work today surfing that page. Fascinating stuff. As I have absolutely no background in electrical engineering, i'm pretty bewildered, but I'm hooked and want to learn more. Cool. (although I could see this turning into a expensive hobby if i ever really get into designing/modding amps, but if ever, that's a loooong way down the road.)
Sorry dude, that message wasn't directed to you. You may know something about electronics, but someone who calls Mesa 20/20 Class A amp really may need some clarification after reading that article. I've merely offered him my help with this.
Lemme put it this way, in most instances, if a MFR simplifies something and claims it to be a Class "X" for the sake of argument, who's going to argue? They built it, so they should know right?
As for the 20/20, I can fathom that its a Class B or A/B based on only the tube configs, as I haven't seen a schemat for it yet....
Anyway, all I'm saying is, you don't have to come down so hard on people for echoing what a mfr or jerk-off sales rep told someone about the amp's config.
BTW, I DO have a class A amplifier sitting about 2 feet from me and surprisingly its souds pretty kewl given its control layout:
Input 1, Input 2, VOLUME, power sw. , and a power indicator lamp. Tubes are : 1 :12ax7a, 1: 6V6GT and 1: 5Y3GT. its the single recto model
She's an OLD Gibson point to point wired amp made in Kalamazoo, MI with an orig. Jensen 8" driver, pretty neat old amp.
Bamm
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