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23K views 59 replies 28 participants last post by  jim777 
#1 ·
I don't know man. Maybe I have no taste in guitars. People have been telling me there's nothing like an American made Fender or Gibson. Don't know man. Owned an American Fender, and played MANY Les Pauls and flying V types. I went to this dude's house to pick up my Ghostrider, and he had all these American Gibsons. He was all proud and stuff, so I was kind of excited because he was cool and he let me play with all of them. they sounded like toys. Seriously, it was horrible. ESPECIALLY the flying V type i think they're called destroyers. They sounded horrible. i had to pretend they were cool though to be polite, but the wood tone was terrible. He told me one of them was 2k. Man.

Is it me, or is it that you get these music school folks who just want to be cool, and iconic, and "rock n' roll" and so they get the Les Paul [with tatoos, and rock n roll haircuts, oh yeah and a stock rock n' roll attitude] and then whatever it sounds like they assimilate that into "good tone"? I think most Les Pauls sound like crap. They're either way trebly and thin, or way too muddy. Occasionally I come across one that sounds pretty good, actually to be honest I've played like 2 les pauls I thought sounded good, and one of them I partially attribue to the JCM800 it was being played through.

Weird thing is I love Page, and Slash, but I think so many new school kids get the Les Paul, and the Les Paul's one dimensional tone doesn't fit a lot of genres of music.

A Les Paul doesn't sound good clean to me, and the tone is very one dimensional. I mean, Page totally adjusted his guitar, added tap switches and the like to get more tones out of it, so I think it's fair to say it is a fairly one dimensional guitar.

I don't know man. Everyone talks about "sustain" from a LP but they totally don't sustain well. Set necks, aren't that great. I read an article that described the nature of glue in guitar necks and that glue actually kills vibration so a set neck should actually have the worst sustain out of a tight bolt neck, or a neck through. I think my RG770dx actually sustains better than any guitar I have ever played. I'm pretty open minded too. I go to GC and play all the prs' LP's, Fenders' new Ibanez' [West LA music has the new RG series, they're pretty cool] and I try to find great sustain.

I'm just sick of all the brainwashed drones going on and on about Les Paul tone, when they dropped 2 grand on a guitar that automatically needs new pickups, and the very things that are supposed to be hyped about it aren't even close to true. Having a heavy guitar does not equate with quality. I know, it's shocking, but just because a guitar weighs 15 lbs, and feels solid doesn't make it a well made instrument, or sustain well or have good tone.

Sorry to bag on Les Pauls, I'm not saying everyone who owns one is a poser, just 95% of you. :)

anyways, I'm just ranting, sorry if I offended you. just sick of hearing people say, "those jap pieces of crap man you need an american made gibson man, made in the US of A brother!"

I will end my rant with this: Think for yourself. use your Ears to determine tone, not your mind, or what people tell you.
 
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#2 ·
Guitars mentioned above are all great guitars.

An RG/JEM is VERY different from the guitars mentioned above...and therefore appeal to different people.

Posing is an issue with all cool looking guitars :wink: be careful to label people with different tastes to yourself as "posers" :wink:
 
#5 ·
There's probably a thread on some lespaulsite.com site with subject "Anyone else think Ibanez RGs and JEMs are overrated?"

I couldn't care less what guitar people like or "preach" as having the greatest tone on earth. Each person will have his or her preferences and they're pretty free to preach what they want. As long as they don't try to convert me too hard without giving me a free sample.
 
#8 ·
My "personal preference" says that they're good for different uses. Gibsons seem nicer for more classic, more ringing out, simple stuff.

Some of my favourite bands stick with Les Pauls/SGs.

For me though a happy medium has always been the RG321. Easy to play but plenty enough sustain for me.
 
#28 ·
I think Gibson is the most overpriced guitar on the market.
This is about the stupidest arguement against Gibson that I've ever heard, with the possible exception of people crying that Les Pauls are too heavy.

You can get a real Gibson Les Paul for as little as $800 and as much as $9000 or more. Show me one other company that offers that. You cant get a Japanese Jem for less than $2000. There is a Les Paul for just about any budget, and a REAL Les Paul, not a Korean version.

If you want to break it down a little more you can get a Melody Maker for $350, not an Epiphone, a Gibson Melody Maker for $350.
 
#11 ·
I have owned 4 different Explorers and two of the 4 should have never left my possesion due to the tonal qualiies they had. One of the two keepers stayed stock in the pup dept and the other got the JB/'59 treatment. This is just my experience with Gibson products.

I plan to get my 5th (I own zero at the moment) Explorer in the first 1/4 of '08.

I have played quite a few LP's but have never tried one onstage which is the "real" test for a guitar IMHO. When you play a guitar in a gig you can really hear if the tones cut thru the mix and have good qualities that you are able to work with.

I play ALOT of Ibby's and I'd say 50% of the Ibby's I've played have very thin tone (usually in the bridge position) which I believe could be due to the trems but I couldn't say for sure that is what was killing the tone.

I am part of those who believe that at least 50% (if not more) of your tone comes from the hands that play it.

I played a new '07 LP Standard recently (ugliest top I've ever seen on an LP - PLAIN snbrst - no flame- eww) and just sitting in my lap running thru a small practice amp that LP had lots of tone but not many "tones". The versatility just wasn't there but it at least seemed to me that I would have easily been able to play a gig with it and still get quality sounds out of it.

Generalizations like this are just that, generalizations and adding in the poser comments takes things even further from being a "real discussion" and more of a FLAME FEST. I'll second what elcid said, "Yawn".
 
#12 ·
To start with Destroyers were made by Ibanez. :lol: Plus I didn't know you automatically needed to replace the pickups in a Les Paul. Hmmm.... guess I must have missed that memo or fad.

How many threads do we see on here asking "what pups to put in my Ibanez?" So you've got to be kidding if you think changing pups is only "required" on Les Pauls.

I've heard players complain about every brand of pickup manufactured and in all brands of guitars. You know.... I need more sustain, more bottom end, more top end, more mids! Again, you're making this blanket statement with little thought given.

Same with coil taps and phase switches..... someone somewhere is tearing into a guitar (name any brand) and adding this or that. It's got absolutely nothing to do with or is unique to Les Pauls.

We have members of this forum that swear all guitars should have EMG's loaded in them and plugged into a Mesa Triple Recto.....! Like that's the only way to get good tone! Again, all personal preference.

Like OMG dude.... can't you hear the sustain coming from this post? I mentioned Ibanez, EMG's, and Mesa Engineering at the same time! :lol:

As far as Clean tones from a Les Paul, maybe you should go and talk to some older players. Or try this...... consider what a guitar is plugged into, the player, and the type of music before drawing your conclusions and start passing off your judgment on any guitar brand or model as having real merit.

What you fail to realize is every guitar is different, along with each player. What appeals to one won't to another. But to cast judgment on a particular model..... well is surely shows you've had limited exposure to, or have a narrow set of criteria you're basing your opinion on.

Far too many hit songs ( in all genres) have been made, as well as good players have utilized Les Pauls to display good tone.

Oh, and what's this about posers? You're from L.A.? Well OMG dude...... you're from the poser capitol of America! Los Angeles, California! Come on now.... be honest here! When exactly was the last time you strapped on that GR520 "GhostRider" and glanced in the mirror while listening to your fav H/M band? :lol: I mean you WILL deny that right? ;)

Maybe you should heed your own advice...... so you won't appear so "one dimensional".

"Think for yourself. Use your ears to determine tone," and for God's sake use your head. Don't just spew trash...... BTW, what was that you said about "what people tell you"? ;)
 
#46 ·
To start with Destroyers were made by Ibanez. :lol: Plus I didn't know you automatically needed to replace the pickups in a Les Paul. Hmmm.... guess I must have missed that memo or fad.

How many threads do we see on here asking "what pups to put in my Ibanez?" So you've got to be kidding if you think changing pups is only "required" on Les Pauls.

I've heard players complain about every brand of pickup manufactured and in all brands of guitars. You know.... I need more sustain, more bottom end, more top end, more mids! Again, you're making this blanket statement with little thought given.

Same with coil taps and phase switches..... someone somewhere is tearing into a guitar (name any brand) and adding this or that. It's got absolutely nothing to do with or is unique to Les Pauls.

We have members of this forum that swear all guitars should have EMG's loaded in them and plugged into a Mesa Triple Recto.....! Like that's the only way to get good tone! Again, all personal preference.

Like OMG dude.... can't you hear the sustain coming from this post? I mentioned Ibanez, EMG's, and Mesa Engineering at the same time! :lol:

As far as Clean tones from a Les Paul, maybe you should go and talk to some older players. Or try this...... consider what a guitar is plugged into, the player, and the type of music before drawing your conclusions and start passing off your judgment on any guitar brand or model as having real merit.

What you fail to realize is every guitar is different, along with each player. What appeals to one won't to another. But to cast judgment on a particular model..... well is surely shows you've had limited exposure to, or have a narrow set of criteria you're basing your opinion on.

Far too many hit songs ( in all genres) have been made, as well as good players have utilized Les Pauls to display good tone.

Oh, and what's this about posers? You're from L.A.? Well OMG dude...... you're from the poser capitol of America! Los Angeles, California! Come on now.... be honest here! When exactly was the last time you strapped on that GR520 "GhostRider" and glanced in the mirror while listening to your fav H/M band? :lol: I mean you WILL deny that right? ;)

Maybe you should heed your own advice...... so you won't appear so "one dimensional".

"Think for yourself. Use your ears to determine tone," and for God's sake use your head. Don't just spew trash...... BTW, what was that you said about "what people tell you"? ;)
You got no clue what you're talking about. First of all Ibanezes cost about 1/2 of a Gibson. so yeah, throwing some pups in is fine. PRS's come with nice pups. I've just talked to a lot of my buddies who buy Les Pauls and they upgrade the pups, yes typically to other Gibson pickups, but they just dropped 2k on that guitar! It's a PRICE ISSUE bud. Not a name brand issue.

I didn't say people don't add coil taps, or other mods to their Ibanezes. My point is: they don't need to. Ibanezes are largely known as versatile guitar, hence H/S/H or SSH configs are quite common, and 5 way pickup selectors as well. My point was this: LP's are one dimensional, Jimmy Page modifying his was just an EXAMPLE of that.

My judgment on Les Pauls is not based on limited exposure, it's actually based on my personal search for a les paul, a couple of my close friend''s les pauls, and then people I know more peripherally. I didn't just roll over and have a beef against LP's. Actually, I was beginning the GAS for them a few years back and was just disappointed in the overrated overpriced models I found.

I like the accusation of wearing that ghostrider though! And I will deny that! funny mental pic. but you really have no clue what you're talking about. Then you say, I should stop bad mouthing LP's to stop sounding one dimensional? what? that doesn't even make sense. I like PRS, even old Fender's. So it's not like I'm against ALL american made expensive guitars, I jus tthink Gibbys are overpriced and overrated.
 
#13 ·
I own a Les Paul.. Its a Slash signature and id be lying if i didnt say the name added appeal, but one other big reason i bought it was the piezo bridge.. no more acoustic guitars needed live!

Its a beauty of a guitar. It sounds ORGASMIC (it doesnt have standard LP pups though, they are seymour duncan alnico pro II humbuckers). at first it was pretty heavy, but i got used to it quickly. Its neck is awesome (a replica of a '59 LP, still considered to be the best model yet) plays really really nice. The piezo is absolutly fantastic. Close your eyes and youd be convinced you were hearing an amped up acoustic.

All in all, this being the only "Gibson" les paul ive played, i cant say i like them in general, as ive never played a standard LP, but the Slash signature is something holy.
 
#15 ·
Lets see if I have understood what you are saying...

"X" product sucks donkey balls because I prefer "Y".

Excelent argument you presented there... I particularly like the way you use your opinion as some sort of evidence to back up your blanket statements and generalisations.

You did say a couple of things that ring true and make sense, such as...

"I don't know man."

"Maybe I have no taste in guitars"

And the best one yet... "Think for yourself", yes, I believe I will think for myself, thankyou. :)

Just for the record, I'm not the biggest fan of Les Pauls personally, but I have never felt the need to insult people who are.

Sorry to bag on people who think their opinion is fact, I'm not saying everyone who does this is an idiot, just 95% of them. :)

Rock on!
 
#18 ·
I don't see anything wrong with the tone, they just cost more than I'm personally willing to invest on a single guitar, but the same applies to JEMs as well. It's just cooler to hate Gibsons for some reason, but the same guidelines apply to Gibsons as to any other brands: if you want one, get one, otherwise don't :)
 
#19 ·
I think at this day and age the quality control of american made gibsons and fenders has suffered greatly. There's quite a few companies that actually do the mahogany/flame maple top better than gibson nowadays and for less money merely because they aren't called gibson. That being said there are some that actually make it out of the factory sounding good. I've never liked the scale length on les pauls. Always too spongey for me. Set up properly they sound nice enough, but they're just not for me. I've played a few decent SGs however.
 
#20 ·
Hey if you wanna see an awesome vid - check out the Testament - live in London DVD - it was a reunion thing. But Alex Skolnick plays an LP in that video, and absolutely destroys. I definitely recommend checking it out. The solos are incredible. I mean if seeing a ton of ****ty modern rock bands playing LP's leaves a bad taste in your mouth about the guitars, you need to watch that DVD.
 
#23 ·
That's funny - I'm one of those people too. I'll play anything - I mean I've got some preferences - but I have almost as much fun playing beat up acoustic guitars I find in peoples basements as my RG or strat. I mean I like my own guitars way more - but I have fun playing anything. If I was rich - I'd have one of every guitar ever made - and just go from one to another playing 'em all.
 
#29 ·
A Les Paul doesn't sound good clean to me, and the tone is very one dimensional. I mean, Page totally adjusted his guitar, added tap switches and the like to get more tones out of it, so I think it's fair to say it is a fairly one dimensional guitar.
I'm not much for Les Pauls, but the word IDIOT does spring into my mind fairly quickly. Lester Paulson, who basically designed the guitar, and after whom it was named, played mainly light jazz on a Les Paul, and I have heard everything from country to Zappa being played on Les Pauls - all of which the guitar handles very nicely thank you very much.

A Les Paul Studio, which I believe you can buy new in the USA for about a grand sounds pretty much as good as any other Les Paul - what you pay for is cosmetics on the higher end models, and I would imagine that 99% of Gibson owners buy one because they like them, or have always wanted one, not to show off.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about - as Cid said, yawn.
 
#49 ·
A Les Paul studio is the same as any other Les Paul except for cosmetics?
I always though that one of the most basic desires of Les Paul players is that they want the chambered mahogany body. A studio is a block of wood, a sUpreme has the chambered body. By the way, having a chambered body vs . a chunk of painted wood does cost a little bit more there bud.

not to mention more expensive models have better pickups, and better woods, AAAA maple vs. standard. What the heck are you talking about?

Yeah, Les Paul also totally modifies his own LP's, most notably he personally winds his own pickups! which is my point! I think you need to go back to your lawn, get in your truck and go back to school son! Especially when calling another man an idiot. you're a fool.
 
#31 ·
So you want cheaper LPs with more expensive parts?
Let me know how that works out for you.

I dont get the Dimarzio/ Duncan thing here either. People act like those are the only 2 companies in the world that can make good pickups.
Most of their pickups are based on Gibson pickups anyway. How many of their current line up uses the term "PAF" to describe their pickups?
 
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