Fate or Chance? - Jemsite
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-25-2011, 03:32 PM Thread Starter
 
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Fate or Chance?

Alright Jemsite philosophers, I pose a question to you:

Is it fate or chance? I'm not necessarily asking the whys since this is a very opinion based question, and without using a deity based response, I'd like to hear your opinion. (remember, let's keep this philosophical.)

So I have recently met the girl of my dreams. I am infinitely happy. Was it blind luck that brought us together? Or could it not events that played into effect from one to another made it so that it could not have happened any other way? Fate?

What about that guitar that got shipped to you and the neck was broken. Was it just bad luck that someone dropped it, or was it bound to happen?

Lets here some opinions.
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-25-2011, 03:45 PM
 
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Re: Fate or Chance?

I believe that everything, good or bad, happens for a reason and will in time work out for the best though it may not seem so at the time so I'd say fate. It was meant to happen.

I've missed some amazing guitars that were for sale recently, was really disappointed BUT a short time later even better ones popped up which I bought, it's like I was gonna miss the original one's I'd seen for a reason.

It's nice to think that these things are fated to us. Best of luck with the new relationship, you sound like a v. happy guy. Long may it continue.
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-26-2011, 01:34 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Fate or Chance?

Thanks, Daemon! I appreciate the well wishes.

So you say that it was meant to happen.

No defenders of chance? No Butterfly Effect theorists?
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-26-2011, 01:49 PM
 
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Re: Fate or Chance?

What I'm saying is that all the relationships you've had in the past (???) ended. At the time you will have felt bad, we all do when that happens. If they hadn't ended and you didn't get hurt then you would not be where you are today which is much happier by the sounds of things. You could call it fate or chance. I personally do believe in fate. If something is meant to be then it will happen to you.

I also believe in the power of positive thinking, mind over matter, etc. Basically if your outlook is negative then you will attract negative things in your life. Like does attract like in my book so going by that we can, to some extent, affect what is going to happen to us.
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-26-2011, 02:36 PM
 
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Re: Fate or Chance?

I'm a firm believer in chance. No basis or true reason to think that things like this are "fate" in my opinion. I think that when humans are part of a coincidence or event that seems too good to be true or just plain not something that's likely to happen naturally, they tend to read into this so much as to put extra meaning behind it. I may just sound pessimistic but I'm the kind of person that believes you should never for one second try to trick yourself into thinking that anything in this world means a damned thing. Like you say IbanezDaemon- It's incredibly comforting to think that these things are fated to us and that is the meaning of my above statement about reading into the meaning of certain events.

Ever done something like throw a piece of garbage at the can and miss horribly, but then proceeded to watch it bounce off like 2 or 3 things in the most unnatural way and then land straight in the can? I like to think of that as most occurances, even down to why we exist. As with many accretions in the universe, this one formed exactly in the right way and once it was stable enough, some wacky event such as a lightning strike in the right spot with the right carbon and water atoms caused biogenesis. Highly unlikely things like this seem to be a daily occurance. There also seems to be an air of synchronicity about humans in genral, but about that I think the same thing as I explain in the first paragraph.

I've already probably gone kinda off topic and crossed the line with this post...too much coffee . My 2 cents though...
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-26-2011, 03:59 PM
 
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Re: Fate or Chance?

Yeah must have had a lot of coffee Bronx but still an interesting read with good points made.
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-26-2011, 05:01 PM
 
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Re: Fate or Chance?

Everyone can believe what they want.
In my opinion, me meeting my wife was an act of providence. Without getting into specifics, I believe I was put in her way and she in mine at just the right moment.
I won't get into the God discussion as I'm not one of the preachy-types. As a man of science, I understand we try to ascribe divine qualities to certain events in our lives that may, in fact, just be something that just "happens". There's no "reason" behind it; no metric to gauge it by. And there's also the argument that if God is behind the good things in life, why doesn't He do something to stop the bad things. I don't have those answers. Like Bronx said, it's easy too to want to bring psychology or Jung into the question. Is it really God? Are we all connected somehow subconsciously? Are we simply applying labels and explanations to things based on our shared culture? Hard to say.
As is see it my answer to the question of "fate or chance?" is that it's both, though neither one exactly simultaneously.
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-26-2011, 05:53 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Fate or Chance?

Indeed, Bronx, well stated! Lightning is a beautiful synopsis for the chance argument. A particularly wonderful mathematical image, that might I add also looks wonderful in this image of an airplane going through smoke forming a spiral that can also be expressed as a Lorentz attractor:



I college I majored in both Physics and Math, and ended up minoring in Philosophy, and found the links between them very interesting. In classic Newtonian physics you have the simple "apple falls from the tree with velocity, particular mass, and impacts with certain force" but in quantum you have "particles do not act based on hardly anything you expect mathematically, can act randomly, and can even phase out of existance" and bridging between the two are both the quandry of physics and math, and a statement of ultimate philosophy to me.

Again, we should keep deity based arguments clean for sake of the mods killing this thread. I'd like to hear everyones good arguments and hypothesis by staying within Jemsites rule guidelines.

Mike is right though, a divine manipulation certainly ascribes itself as an argument that even Hobbes would validate. Bill O'Reiley agrees.
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-26-2011, 08:13 PM
 
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Re: Fate or Chance?

Sonic.
I can't agree more. Physics, especially taken to the quantum or astro state, only serves to confirm my belief in the existence of... Him, but the discussion I think can do without the full-on G*d debate. Maybe we can argue that a higher force exists in non-linear open-ended systems like economics, weather patterns, and love -whatever you believe that higher power to be. "Fate", I suppose, is a good enough label.
"Chance" to me denotes some level of probability. It's my belief that nothing is impossible; only that things exhibit a varying degree of improbability. It's highly improbable that I would sprout wings right now and fly. If I did, though, I think you could say the remarkable improbability would suggest a "higher power" at work. Who knows?
To me it's like asking if Luke Skywalker could have REALLY hit that exhaust port simply by chance.
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-26-2011, 09:40 PM
 
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Re: Fate or Chance?

I honestly debated even writing that second paragraph, as everyone has their beliefs and I respect that. I kind of felt that it was necessary to tie in though, and that fate vs. chance is incredibly hard to discuss without getting into the subject of higher powers. I guess you can sort of try to separate fate from that, but then again if you believe in it how would you explain these things being "fate" without some unknown force to actually set fate itself in motion? Belief in the fact that all events happen for a reason, with no one controlling this is kind of a direct contradiction isn't it?

Due to that, and my obvious outlook on things of this matter, it kind of forces me to dismiss fate personally. If you believe it then more power to ya, as it really could be considered just another way to have a positive outlook on life through any events for better or worse. I like to still have this positive outlook even though I believe any given event simply just is.

Last edited by Bronx; 02-26-2011 at 09:47 PM. Reason: added sentence
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-26-2011, 10:01 PM
 
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Re: Fate or Chance?

I think with lack of definitive proof one way or another, this thread is essentially going to depend on the reader's point of view. What I perceive as providence or fate someone else might see as simply "happening". At that point, you may as well be asking what pickups are best for an RG550. There's no right answer; it depends on your opinion.
It is still good to hear other people's point of view.
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-26-2011, 10:38 PM
 
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Re: Fate or Chance?

Man I got a Tone Zone in my 550 but it's kinda fuzzy sometimes. Any suggestions?



In the end life is life I guess. Maybe this thread is just a moot point, but the beauty of it is in the lack of proof. I still think that belief in fate goes hand in hand with belief of some force determining that fate. If anyone can debate that events until the end of time are predetermined but that the big bang created this mess, I'd love to hear and discuss. Probably not much of a point though as it's likely the believers in fate are believers in an unseen power, and vice versa. Maybe it's not double edged that way because I can definitley see someone believing that something put us here yet we determine our own course of life.

I dunno. I clearly can't discuss this without a deity based or related response, so I fail
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-27-2011, 04:35 AM
 
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Re: Fate or Chance?

Don't see how fate can exist - where's the accurate evidence anyway?

Everything is a sequence of events affected by the previous events and tied in to all the other stuff going on too. There are billions of permutations for everything and I always believe you do need a code of ethics and values in order to help get you where you want to.

It's a matter of grabbing/influencing what you can at any given point. However; in the context of relationships there's a difference - you can make your own 'luck' or whatever you call it. Evidence? Good folk gravitate to one another and A******s do the same.

Very hard to avoid the Faith thing though, as this would perhaps indicate a level of fate i know nothing about and as yet have not experienced in detail. I subscribe to the Richard Dawkins approach - 'The Selfish Gene' is an interesting read.
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-27-2011, 05:09 AM
 
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Re: Fate or Chance?

If fate is real and everything is predetermined then no one is responsible for their actions, and I just can't believe that. Instead of chance, I prefer to think in terms of probability.

Rock on!
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-27-2011, 10:09 AM
 
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Re: Fate or Chance?

I'm more inclined to believe in karma. I believe things are predetermined in a way based on the decisions one makes. If you start using crack and start stealing things from your neighbor, your future path is likely to be bleak.
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