For the gun fanatics - Jemsite
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post #1 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-05-2014, 10:41 PM Thread Starter
 
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For the gun fanatics

I'm assuming that because the majority of Jemsiters are from the USA guns would be a-thing. Have you guys seen this new bullet?

Holy hell... why do we invent things like this?

http://rare.us/story/this-is-the-las...-for-yourself/
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post #2 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-06-2014, 12:08 AM
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Re: For the gun fanatics

Thought this would have been about viagra
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post #3 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-06-2014, 01:23 AM
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Re: For the gun fanatics

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Originally Posted by elcid View Post
Thought this would have been about viagra
I thought it was about biceps...
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post #4 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-06-2014, 07:39 AM
 
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Re: For the gun fanatics

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Originally Posted by wilch View Post
Holy hell... why do we invent things like this?
For the same reason Kawasaki makes a motorcycle that will go 120mph (193kph) in first gear before it hits the rev limiter. Because we can...

Would I ever buy one? No... but I'd love to ride one.
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post #5 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-06-2014, 09:08 AM
 
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Re: For the gun fanatics

I'm a strong believer in the second amendment. But...

I love assault weapons, I think they're cool. But they're unnecessary and not meant for citizens. If anything, they should have magazine limits. I think a 100 round mag for a citizen, without VERY thorough BACKROUND checks, is dangerous.

In the case if this bullet- this is disgusting. I think if you're defending yourself (and the only need for a bullet that causes damage to the human body IS to cause damage to the human body), the standard bullet should be enough. New ways for us to kill eachother easier disgusts me- the old way worked just as fine. Too many cases where people misuse it.

It actually makes me feel disgusted that people are trying to find ways to kill people easier

Last edited by Kyle am I; 06-06-2014 at 01:58 PM.
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post #6 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-06-2014, 09:18 AM
 
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Re: For the gun fanatics

Coming soon to a campus near you
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post #7 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-06-2014, 09:20 AM
 
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Re: For the gun fanatics

I used to sell guns and ammo even though I don't have one. We sold former Soviet issue rifles and all one needed was the bayonet we didn't sell but could easily buy legally in a gun show or military surplus shop. It's just that you couldn't sell the two in same store assembled. I know a bayonet is not as deadly as the rifle behind it but this kind of bothered me.

That being said, after hearing about the massive shooting of one guy who snuck around a school with concealable handguns made me realize that 1) I am glad my fortune 500 international mall store didn't sell handguns 2) that while I am pro-2nd, I am against handguns. It doesn't bother me if people own rifles and shotguns because something should be legal for the 2nd. But handguns are too easily meant to conceal and sneak up on somebody and that does not seem like either militia as written or personal protection in a defensive way. To me it seems like an offensive weapon. This bullet seems more like an offensive weapon, too.

This bullet shouldn't be allowed for sale, however, people could easily mod out any bullet to do basically the same thing. This bullet plays into some of my sick headed customers who went beyond the 2nd amendment to protect our shores in case of invasion, or the modern interpretation of home protection and recreation, but fed the GAS gunners who wanted a small arsenal. Guys would buy up tens of thousands of rounds of ammo for guns they never fired and I am sure they would stock up on this. Years before I worked at the sporting goods store I went on a tour of the small town police station just 12 miles from army base and saw seized weapons from citizens there. People collected mortar rounds and in a couple of cases an unused hand grenade. It's that mentality that scares me, just like this bullet.

That being said I am glad that Batman has exploding bullets that come out of his car that chicks dig!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DT36sMET_d0

Last edited by 63Blazer; 06-06-2014 at 09:57 AM.
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post #8 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-06-2014, 09:39 AM
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Re: For the gun fanatics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle am I View Post
I'm a strong believer in the second amendment. But...
fixed

EDIT: I'll add, I don't have such a problem with rifles that aren't automatic or semi-automatic. If someone wants to save up and get a Weatherby for deer hunting, that's fine by me. But I don't like handguns at all. I don't like the fact anyone can buy an automatic weapon, and I certainly don't like these bullets.

Last edited by jim777; 06-06-2014 at 10:09 AM.
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post #9 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-06-2014, 03:14 PM
 
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Re: For the gun fanatics

Retarded proguns...
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post #10 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-06-2014, 04:07 PM
 
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Re: For the gun fanatics

This type of amunition is completely repulsive on all levels. On the human level it is what I would call an "idiot weapon", basically no matter where it impacts it causes widespread and destructive internal damage. It is the dirty bomb of the munitions world, requires no precision and is designed to cause an agonising death, even if it were claimed that it was for hunting I would have serious concerns about any hunter who would use a round that causes so much pain and suffering. If you must take a life (human or animal) you ought to have enough respect for life to do it in the most rapid and humane way available, if you can't or don't have at least that much respect for life you have no business possessing or using a firearm.

Even though I am from a country with some of the strictest firearm laws in the world I am not averse to firearms, lol we don't even trust 60% of our police force to carry firearms (uniformed police here do not carry weapons, only detectives and they must undergo a fairly gruelling training course which both physically and psychologically evaluates their abilities and their mental suitibility). When I worked in certain countries many moons ago I carried a sidearm while working, I had to pass several extremely intensive courses which covered safety, personal security, unit tactics, the ability to discern and evaluate threat and stress tests designed to weed out those who cracked under pressure, those courses had a 50 to 60% failure rate and there was one course for each of the 3 weapon groups required (pistol, shotgun & smg). Part of the safety aspect of those courses included watching real footage of those weapons being used on human targets, autopsy photos etc., it was a real eye opener and gave me a serious respect for the responsibility attached to carrying a weapon. Just like not everyone is suited to driving big rig trucks, trains or flying planes, not everyone is suited to possessing, handling and using firearms, it's that simple. And just because you may be suitable at 20 it doesn't mean you will be at 30, 40, 50 or 60.

I have no feelings either way on the 2nd amendment, but I have strong feelings on how it is intrepreted. It is an idea which owes part its history to a tumultous time in British history, to the frontier nature of early America and to the uncertainty of the survival of the early democracy. From the middle of the 19th century on America has possessed a well armed, well trained, professional and technologically advanced army. If a tyrannical government took power with the blessing of such an army, there is very little the average civilian would be able to do change the situation, even with todays assualt rifles they would be facing an enemy who has fired thousands of rounds and undergone hundreds of hours of tactical training and they wouldn't stand a chance (sorry to any of you guys who spend a couple of hours on Saturday at the range, you are unlikely to survive against a professional soldier). If it came to that, the only hope for the people would be a well orchestrated guerrilla campaign against economic and infrastructural targets, short of an outside invasion it is predominantly economic factors that bring tyrannical rulers to the negotiating table, even some resonable democratically elected governments have been forced to negotiate with terrorists due to the pressure applied through infrastructural guerrilla campaigns.

So I believe assault rifles have no place in the home, they are designed for a single purpose - to remove the enemy from combat (it's better in a conventional war to wound enemy fighters as it places increased pressure on their battlefield resources). They are not even used in the realm of VIP protection unless wide security perimeters are being set up where there is a danger from well armed insurrectionist groups. They have no hunting application. Additionally, would you really want to be spraying Nato 5.56/7.62 FMJ from an AR15 or AK47 at an intruder? they will no doubt pass through him, but will also more than likely pass through the wall into your children's bedroom or your neighbours house, see if you can console yourself with the death of an innocent person with "I wasn't trying to kill him", it's not the intention that matters, it's the result, a dead person is still a dead person and no amount of regret is going to bring them back.

Then we arrive at pistols, the most common variation being 9mm. Again such ammunition is not required for use with a pistol, anyone with a modicum of training should understand the Mozambique Drill (I think it may be called the anti-armour drill in the US) which if practiced is more than effective in a close quarter situation. I feel if not banned outright for home possession people should have to undergo serious and regular training in their use, maintenance and safety, they should also have to demonstrate to the state (before anyone mentions the government impeding their rights, rights come with inherent responsibilities, in a democracy the state is the people/society) therefore it is only resonable that a member of society who wishes to possess something that only has one purpose and could easily be turned on other members of society, should have to demonstrate their suitability, responsibility and mental well being on a continuous basis. We have to prove we can pay a bank loan, drive a car, fly a plane, truck drivers are constantly assessed with regards to proper rest periods, yet people are allowed to purchase a weapon with much less difficulty. Shooting can be an interesting test of skill and co-ordination, so if people want to shoot pistols for sport can't they house their pistols in cabinets at their local range. I feel the home defense argument is dubious at best, allow me to play it out. It's 4am after a busy day at work, you went to bed at midnight. Your wife/husband hears a noise and wakes you (it's usually a wife, they hear things besides our snoring, it's usually cats shagging or a drunk falling over a bin, but they always nudge you awake). This time it's not feline lovemaking, there's someone climbing through your living room window. You unlock your drawer/cabinet, take your pistol, slide a loaded magazine in, attempt to quietly pull back the slide to chamber the first round and take the safety off (if your pistol is already made ready (locked and loaded in the US?) then I would question what you are doing with a pistol in your possession, particularly if you have children and if the safety is already off you shouldn't even be allowed to have metal cutlery in your house because you are an imbecile!). You make your way down the hall in a half awake but adrenaline fuelled state. What if one of your kids goes to the toilet? What if your dog comes bounding up the hall? What if you reach the living room and aim at the intruder and realise you have forgotten to take the safety off? What if you pull the trigger and you get a dead man's click because you've been too busy with other things to maintain your weapon properly and you only have it for self defense anyway? All this gives your intruder the upper hand, on top of the advantages he already possesses by being totally awake, not having to worry about shooting one of his family in error and being generally prepared for his work (yes, he invades homes for either a living or hobby, how often do you defend them?). So, even armed in your own home you are still at a disadvantage, plus in a society where the criminal knows being shot dead is a risk, he's generally going to factor that risk and shoot first. You can't protect your family if you're hemorrhaging and flailing all over your living room floor, you've a much better chance if you grab your family and retreat through another exit either to an easily defendable area or preferably to a neighbour for help (provided your neighbour doesn't mistake your plight for a gang invasion and kill you all). Call the police, it may be hard to believe, but this type of situation is in the job spec and features in the training of those blue clad doughnut munchers and they're usually much better at it than let's say the average half asleep dabbler.

2nd part in 2nd post.

Last edited by Laobi; 06-06-2014 at 04:17 PM.
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post #11 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-06-2014, 04:07 PM
 
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Re: For the gun fanatics

Continued:

A submachine gun like the Uzi 9mm or H&K MP5/7 is a fine weapon for close quarters situations, but do you really want to be redecorating your house with 2-3 round or fully automatic bursts. This has no use or purpose in the home, they are used for military/security applications by TEAMS, indivually you are no safer confronting an intruder with an SMG than you are with a pistol and more likely to kill the wrong person. These weapons should only belong in the hands of the military and police.

I agree with other posters that hunting rifles and shotguns are fine, provided they're not automatic. However I feel you should still have to demonstrate that you are an upstanding and sane member of society to own and use one. I think most hunters will agree that anything that causes additional distress to their prey is not required, the aim is to kill quickly and as cleanly as possible, who wants to be choking on metal fragments in their food? And if you live in an apartment block in the middle of New York you have no business having a hunting rifle there, I know there are some big ****ing pidgeons, but come on!

To sum up, there are rights, but the world and societies are ever changing. 15 years ago you had the right to bring a stanley knife or large scissors in your hand luggage, it was something that I had discussed with friends with some alarm in the decade prior to 2000. Until the late 1960s you could carry a loaded weapon on board a US domestic flight. I know this is a historic right, but the intrepretation when applied to modern weapons is carrying it too far. In order to face a well trained, technologically advanced army with some hope of success you would need to turn your yard into a missile silo. What keeps America a democracy? Fear of an armed population? I don't think so. America has evolved into a society where respect for the rule of law and fellow humans has kept it a democracy, additionally it was founded on the principle that civil authority has primacy over military authority, that's what keeps all democracies relatively honest and democratic.

Well there's my 2c, again sorry about the 2 part book.
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post #12 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-06-2014, 06:57 PM
 
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Re: For the gun fanatics

We need that strict training and weeding out here. The problem is those who like their guns and want them widely available are so against it it dosent take even a school if children being shot up to bring up the topic of REAL regulation

The kid who shot up USC Santa Barbara had a history of I think aspergers. He bought a gun, waited the three days, got the gun, and used it. I can't help but think that there could have been a way to screen him to keep him from getting the weapon. Idek. I just don't know.

This bullet should not be for civilians. Period. It's unnecessary and it only makes it easier to kill people when a lot of these killings done with NORMAL ammo are unjust ones.
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post #13 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-06-2014, 07:04 PM
 
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Re: For the gun fanatics

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Originally Posted by Swirltop View Post
Coming soon to a campus near you
That is a completely stupid statement.

Super bullets, guns, and Viagra doesn't kill people. People kill people. People are the problem not bullets.
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post #14 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-06-2014, 07:08 PM
 
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Re: For the gun fanatics

I agree Kyle, that was more or less the purpose of my long meandering chapter. If people had to attend an extended period of training which involved psychological assessments and regular on the spot inspection by the local police you'd have a lot less of these issues. It must be a real headache for law enforcement also, a realitively minor incident can become a spree quite easily and patrol officers with just a sidearm have to face better armed citizens. I don't think the founding fathers meant the 2nd amendment to become an arms race between the citizen and their local police department. I know people can do just as much damage with a kitchen knife, but at least an armed cop can safely challenge a knife weilding suspect and in most cases the result will be an arrest rather than multiple homicides.
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post #15 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-06-2014, 07:10 PM
 
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Re: For the gun fanatics

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Originally Posted by CosmicDebris View Post
That is a completely stupid statement.

Super bullets, guns, and Viagra doesn't kill people. People kill people. People are the problem not bullets.
Do unarmed hands can kill the same amount of people than the same hands with a m16 in them ?
Grow up troll.
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