Let's Bailout Everybody!!! - Jemsite
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post #1 of 156 (permalink) Old 11-13-2008, 10:13 PM Thread Starter
 
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Let's Bailout Everybody!!!

Auto makers, Post Office, Airlines, Banks, . What's next. Ed Roman put your hand down.
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post #2 of 156 (permalink) Old 11-14-2008, 12:49 AM
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Re: Let's Bailout Everybody!!!

The only problem with American auto makers is that their cars just plain suck. The Germans and the Japanese do it so much better for so much less it is just ridiculous. The bottom line is that the only people who are buying American vehicles are tobacco spitting rednecks buying pick up trucks and the occasional die hard corvette or mustang fan. Anyone who has driven, say, a BMW or a Mercedes can immediately tell it is 10 times the car for the same price. Here we are in a huge recession and gas is just barely starting to get reasonable again and they are rolling out a new 9 mpg Hummer. It is comical. Very soon, they won't even be able to afford to pay the pensions of their retirees anymore. I remember when working for the auto industry was one of the most sought after jobs there was and if you didn't have relatives working at the factory, forget it. The unions are ridiculously killing them. The average US auto worker makes $40 an hour. The AVERAGE?!?! Are you kidding me. The bigger problem is that so many other industries are tied to them that it will cause a huge ripple effect.

And now they are all crying that they don't want to have to declare bankruptcy. Why not? You're going bankrupt idiots! At some point you just have to let them fail. It isn't for any other reason than the fact that they are overloaded with too many employees (entire families x 1000's) and at the end of the day, nobody wants to buy their cars. If it wasn't for government contracts they would have gone under a long time ago, and they didn't get the contracts because they were so good either. Ridiculous. These guys have been so fat and happy for so long it is really hard to have any sympathy for them.
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post #3 of 156 (permalink) Old 11-14-2008, 01:26 AM
 
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Re: Let's Bailout Everybody!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GilkyBear View Post
The only problem with American auto makers is that their cars just plain suck. The Germans and the Japanese do it so much better for so much less it is just ridiculous. The bottom line is that the only people who are buying American vehicles are tobacco spitting rednecks buying pick up trucks and the occasional die hard corvette or mustang fan. Anyone who has driven, say, a BMW or a Mercedes can immediately tell it is 10 times the car for the same price. Here we are in a huge recession and gas is just barely starting to get reasonable again and they are rolling out a new 9 mpg Hummer. It is comical. Very soon, they won't even be able to afford to pay the pensions of their retirees anymore. I remember when working for the auto industry was one of the most sought after jobs there was and if you didn't have relatives working at the factory, forget it. The unions are ridiculously killing them. The average US auto worker makes $40 an hour. The AVERAGE?!?! Are you kidding me. The bigger problem is that so many other industries are tied to them that it will cause a huge ripple effect.

And now they are all crying that they don't want to have to declare bankruptcy. Why not? You're going bankrupt idiots! At some point you just have to let them fail. It isn't for any other reason than the fact that they are overloaded with too many employees (entire families x 1000's) and at the end of the day, nobody wants to buy their cars. If it wasn't for government contracts they would have gone under a long time ago, and they didn't get the contracts because they were so good either. Ridiculous. These guys have been so fat and happy for so long it is really hard to have any sympathy for them.
I would agree with most of this.
They did a lot of this to themselves with the SUV boom, not really thinking back to the 70's with gas shortages and the reason the muscle car/gas guzzlers went away.
Not to mention coming out with new models every year.( changing just for the sake of change) not really making any improvements.
That said I do drive a chevy, just cause I don't like the looks of most foreign cars.
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post #4 of 156 (permalink) Old 11-14-2008, 01:34 AM
 
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Re: Let's Bailout Everybody!!!

I am sure some of you have seen this bailout alternative floting around. Sure it won't work, but
makes more sense then bailing these companies out!

"I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.

Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in

a We Deserve It Dividend.

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up.

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a "We Deserve It Dividend".

Of course, it would NOT be tax free.

So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.

Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes. That sends $25,500,000,0 00 right back to Uncle Sam.

But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket. A husband and wife has $595,000.00.

What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?

Pay off your mortgage – housing crisis solved.

Repay college loans – what a great boost to new grads

Put away money for college – it'll be there

Save in a bank – create money to loan to entrepreneurs.

Buy a new car – create jobs

Invest in the market – capital drives growth

Pay for your parent's medical insurance – health care improves.

Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean – or else

Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.

If we're going to d o an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!
As for AIG – liquidate it.

Sell off its parts.

Let American General go back to being American General.

Sell off the real estate.

Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.

Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work."

But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!
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post #5 of 156 (permalink) Old 11-14-2008, 02:20 AM
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Re: Let's Bailout Everybody!!!

Great plan, in theory.

Unfortunately in practice, the math only comes out to $425 to each American.

Theye've already given us more than that, twice.

Economy, not so stimulated.
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post #6 of 156 (permalink) Old 11-14-2008, 02:24 AM
 
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Re: Let's Bailout Everybody!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Distantshore View Post
I am sure some of you have seen this bailout alternative floting around. Sure it won't work, but
makes more sense then bailing these companies out!

"I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.

Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in

a We Deserve It Dividend.

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up.

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a "We Deserve It Dividend".

Of course, it would NOT be tax free.

So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.

Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes. That sends $25,500,000,0 00 right back to Uncle Sam.

But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket. A husband and wife has $595,000.00.

What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?

Pay off your mortgage housing crisis solved.

Repay college loans what a great boost to new grads

Put away money for college it'll be there

Save in a bank create money to loan to entrepreneurs.

Buy a new car create jobs

Invest in the market capital drives growth

Pay for your parent's medical insurance health care improves.

Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean or else

Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.

If we're going to d o an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!
As for AIG liquidate it.

Sell off its parts.

Let American General go back to being American General.

Sell off the real estate.

Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.

Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work."

But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!

If you would've posted this 2 weeks ago I would have written you in
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post #7 of 156 (permalink) Old 11-14-2008, 05:17 AM
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Re: Let's Bailout Everybody!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GilkyBear View Post
The only problem with American auto makers is that their cars just plain suck. The Germans and the Japanese do it so much better for so much less it is just ridiculous.

This just isn't true anymore. In the 70s and 80s yes, but now on just about any standard class for class American cars have closed the gap and have even surpassed imports in some areas. Im sure I didnt get a lifetime warranty on my Dodge truck because Chrystler wants to do a ton of free work over the next 10 years.

As for your tabacco spitting rednecks remark. That's just plain old ignorance. Why not say only blacks and ****s drive Nissan's?

As for the SUV thing, why wouldnt they have made so many of they were hugely pofitable and until gas prices shot up it's all that was selling.

As much as it sucks,. if lender's are getting bailed out the auto industry definately deserves it. America already does too little manufacturing, and is too heavily tied to the service industry. No country's economy can survive working like that. It used to be watching the manufacturing industry was the best gauge to measure the economy, they were the first hit when things got slow and the first to show progress when thihngs started to pick up.

As for the $40/hr thing, that only sounds like a lot of money. It only works out to about $83K a year, I dont get why people get worked up about that but not the millions the CEOs get.
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post #8 of 156 (permalink) Old 11-14-2008, 05:54 AM
 
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Re: Let's Bailout Everybody!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
Great plan, in theory.

Unfortunately in practice, the math only comes out to $425 to each American.

Theye've already given us more than that, twice.

Economy, not so stimulated.
I'm not great at math, but when I punch in 2 million and times it by $425,000.00 I get the $85 Billion.

I agree though, on paper it looks great, but I'm sure it really wouldn't work.
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post #9 of 156 (permalink) Old 11-14-2008, 05:56 AM
 
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Re: Let's Bailout Everybody!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by brothersnowgone View Post
If you would've posted this 2 weeks ago I would have written you in
It's not my idea, just something that I got in an e-mail.
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post #10 of 156 (permalink) Old 11-14-2008, 08:29 AM
 
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Re: Let's Bailout Everybody!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by elcid View Post
As for the SUV thing, why wouldnt they have made so many of they were hugely pofitable and until gas prices shot up it's all that was selling.
Yeah they used to sell. You can blame the car companies for not seeing this coming though. You can also blame them for taking so long to get the hint. We need smaller cars, more efficient cars, and less cars!

There really is no need for a new model every year anymore. Most people that buy a car new will drive it for well over a year. Oil prices will continue to increase, even if we are getting a small break now. People in general have less spending money, so buying a new car when you get tired of the way your old one looks will cease to happen except with the rich. I don't think a major automobile manufacturer can be sustained buy the top 1% of society. But they still continue to manufacture SUV's at a rate that sales can't meet.

Last edited by brothersnowgone; 11-14-2008 at 08:52 AM.
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post #11 of 156 (permalink) Old 11-14-2008, 08:43 AM
 
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Re: Let's Bailout Everybody!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by elcid View Post
This just isn't true anymore. In the 70s and 80s yes, but now on just about any standard class for class American cars have closed the gap and have even surpassed imports in some areas. Im sure I didnt get a lifetime warranty on my Dodge truck because Chrystler wants to do a ton of free work over the next 10 years.

As for your tabacco spitting rednecks remark. That's just plain old ignorance. Why not say only blacks and ****s drive Nissan's?

As for the SUV thing, why wouldnt they have made so many of they were hugely pofitable and until gas prices shot up it's all that was selling.

As much as it sucks,. if lender's are getting bailed out the auto industry definately deserves it. America already does too little manufacturing, and is too heavily tied to the service industry. No country's economy can survive working like that. It used to be watching the manufacturing industry was the best gauge to measure the economy, they were the first hit when things got slow and the first to show progress when thihngs started to pick up.

As for the $40/hr thing, that only sounds like a lot of money. It only works out to about $83K a year, I dont get why people get worked up about that but not the millions the CEOs get.
I know a lot of recent hires in Engineering who are getting the equivalent of $20-25 / hour. I also know of a particular one about 50 yrs old, originally from Eastern Europe but living in the US, who is willing to work for about 25/hr. His background is Chemical Engineering. He was out of work for 1 year, looking for a job. Things are not what they used to be in manufacturing.
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post #12 of 156 (permalink) Old 11-14-2008, 09:19 AM
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Re: Let's Bailout Everybody!!!

cid is mostly right here. They will be bailed out and need to be, then restructured. US autos are actually very good and fairly priced. However the price to make is large. It's most japanese and euro cars that are overpriced with a much higher cost to maintain/service over time.

But that is not the problem, nor the totally overpaid employees. If they got $50 an hour it's excessive but the tip of the iceburg. About $1200 PER CAR COST from GM goes toward health care of people NO LONGER WORKING for GM. Some businesses can't sustain themselves forever and in this case GM fell victim also to people living longer and requiring more medical care while health care insurance costs skyrocketed (another corrupt industry BTW). The problems are numerous and many self inflicted yes, but not due to junky cars.

They can't just cut every job in the USA and build Chevy's in Korea or China can they?

There is no real end game either in abandoning profitable SUVs going towards RAZOR THIN MARGIN subcompacts. They'd have to have robots making the cars and no employees. Maybe alternate fuels/electric will spark a renewed life toward dying US car companies.

One benefit long term is leasing will soon be over making the auto industry more a level playing field (the avg. american can soon no longer drive a car they can't even afford). This will bolster the service industry where the average car owner lets a car rot thru a lease changing only oil then disposing of it like garbage.

But the largest problem is the way they're run & the playing field they're on. These executives & CEOs are GETTING HIGHLY PAID TO BANKRUPT COMPANIES. Outside forces are crippling them. Capitalism at it's worst... glen


Quote:
Originally Posted by elcid View Post
This just isn't true anymore. In the 70s and 80s yes, but now on just about any standard class for class American cars have closed the gap and have even surpassed imports in some areas. Im sure I didnt get a lifetime warranty on my Dodge truck because Chrystler wants to do a ton of free work over the next 10 years.

As for your tabacco spitting rednecks remark. That's just plain old ignorance. Why not say only blacks and ****s drive Nissan's?

As for the SUV thing, why wouldnt they have made so many of they were hugely pofitable and until gas prices shot up it's all that was selling.

As much as it sucks,. if lender's are getting bailed out the auto industry definately deserves it. America already does too little manufacturing, and is too heavily tied to the service industry. No country's economy can survive working like that. It used to be watching the manufacturing industry was the best gauge to measure the economy, they were the first hit when things got slow and the first to show progress when thihngs started to pick up.

As for the $40/hr thing, that only sounds like a lot of money. It only works out to about $83K a year, I dont get why people get worked up about that but not the millions the CEOs get.
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post #13 of 156 (permalink) Old 11-14-2008, 09:26 AM
 
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Red face Re: Let's Bailout Everybody!!!

If only we went back to the horse and buggy, and screwed the oil companies over...
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post #14 of 156 (permalink) Old 11-14-2008, 12:03 PM
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Re: Let's Bailout Everybody!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by elcid View Post
This just isn't true anymore. In the 70s and 80s yes, but now on just about any standard class for class American cars have closed the gap and have even surpassed imports in some areas. Im sure I didnt get a lifetime warranty on my Dodge truck because Chrystler wants to do a ton of free work over the next 10 years.

As for your tabacco spitting rednecks remark. That's just plain old ignorance. Why not say only blacks and ****s drive Nissan's?

As for the SUV thing, why wouldnt they have made so many of they were hugely pofitable and until gas prices shot up it's all that was selling.

As much as it sucks,. if lender's are getting bailed out the auto industry definately deserves it. America already does too little manufacturing, and is too heavily tied to the service industry. No country's economy can survive working like that. It used to be watching the manufacturing industry was the best gauge to measure the economy, they were the first hit when things got slow and the first to show progress when thihngs started to pick up.

As for the $40/hr thing, that only sounds like a lot of money. It only works out to about $83K a year, I dont get why people get worked up about that but not the millions the CEOs get.
First, the tobacco spitting remark was tongue in cheek. Second, how dare YOU be offended

We can argue about retiree health care, poor management, cost of making cars etc etc etc all day long but at the end of the day these guys have been sliding and sliding and sliding downhill for years, no decades.

Bottom line, they aren't selling as many as they need to. A bailout isn't going to make any more people want to buy their crappy cars. That's just that.

American cars just feel like cheap toys to me and they are ugly. Last month I bought a Mercedes CLS 500 and a Range Rover and couldn't be happier.
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post #15 of 156 (permalink) Old 11-14-2008, 12:07 PM
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Re: Let's Bailout Everybody!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Distantshore View Post
I'm not great at math, but when I punch in 2 million and times it by $425,000.00 I get the $85 Billion.

.
85 billion / 2 million is 42,500.
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