Monaco F1 GP Qualifying:Was Schumacher guilty or not? - Jemsite
Off-topic / Miscellaneous Talk about miscellaneous stuff off-topic and not related to music, guitars or bands. No music, gear or anything guitar related here please.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 44 (permalink) Old 05-30-2006, 08:26 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 2,561
Reviews: 34
Monaco F1 GP Qualifying:Was Schumacher guilty or not?

Well I am undecided.

I am a Schumacher fan, and my first thought was definately that he cheated.

After watching the footage "in car" I noticed that before the incident he was positioned much further towards the right or centre of the track than I expected. After watching him (and other drivers) in the race the line taken was always different and further to the left of the track.

Although opinion is overwhelmingly (understandably) against Schumacher this observation lends creedance (in my mind at least) to his claim that he lost control in the previous corner, ran slightly wide and put himself off line for the following corner. This meant that he had to straighten up and couldn't make the bend. Presumably he slammed on his brakes to stop himself hitting the wall.

If anyone else has an opinion (or even cares) I would be interested to hear it. Although I think basing any opinion on what the other drivers have said since may not be the way forward. I doubt that any of them had actually watched the footage when interviewed 5 mins after the incident.

One other point: Assume that this was a pure accident, and it had been Fernando Alonso driving. Would everyone be saying the same thing? Perhaps part of this is that people want to believe Schumacher is guilty because, let's face facts, he has done it before.
nickcoumbe is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 44 (permalink) Old 05-30-2006, 08:35 AM
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 2,781
Re: Monaco F1 GP Qualifying:Was Schumacher guilty or not?

My thoughts are, as there was no way of proving it was deliberate, he shouldn't have been punished.

Some things are absolutes - car design regulations for example, and there is no way of arguing with them, but this conviction is entirely based on opinion.

I'm not sure if it was deliberate or not, but as pretty much every expert agreed that it was, there must be something in it.
Algiman is offline  
post #3 of 44 (permalink) Old 05-30-2006, 10:29 AM
dex
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 2,110
Re: Monaco F1 GP Qualifying:Was Schumacher guilty or not?

Max Mosley said that after looking at telemetry, the tv images and the recording of the team radio link between Michael and the team, the stuarts spend several hour deliberating and decided to penalise Schumi.

They think it was fishy and the sheer fact that they didn't just bump him 10 places tells me they could prove it was fishy.
Still, with Kimi's bad luck and Michael and Alonso in a league of their own I can't see anyone else chalenging Alonso for the title.

ilia
dex is offline  
post #4 of 44 (permalink) Old 05-30-2006, 10:59 AM
Moderator
 
jim777's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Blackwood, NJ
Posts: 9,689
Re: Monaco F1 GP Qualifying:Was Schumacher guilty or not?

What exactly was the punishment levied against him?
jim777 is offline  
post #5 of 44 (permalink) Old 05-30-2006, 11:19 AM
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 2,781
Re: Monaco F1 GP Qualifying:Was Schumacher guilty or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim777
What exactly was the punishment levied against him?
He got dropped from pole to the back of the grid.

Dex, I know what you mean. Hopefully they did have some solid evidence but the way it was explained on TV here was that it seemed likely he was cheating. For such a strong punishment I would hope they had some pretty concrete data to back it up.

I'm by no means a MS fan, but at least when he was in a position to challenge Alonso the season was going to be interesting. I hope for entertainments sake he bounces back from this.
Algiman is offline  
post #6 of 44 (permalink) Old 05-30-2006, 11:21 AM
dex
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 2,110
Re: Monaco F1 GP Qualifying:Was Schumacher guilty or not?

He had to start last which is a big penalty in Monaco where overtaking is practicaly impossible.

You beat me to the punch.

ilia
dex is offline  
post #7 of 44 (permalink) Old 05-30-2006, 11:35 AM
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Petaling Jaya, Malaysia
Posts: 2,445
Re: Monaco F1 GP Qualifying:Was Schumacher guilty or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dex
He had to start last which is a big penalty in Monaco where overtaking is practicaly impossible.

You beat me to the punch.

ilia
But then again he did manage to overtake quite a number of drivers.
King Knall is offline  
post #8 of 44 (permalink) Old 05-30-2006, 12:39 PM
Moderator
 
jim777's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Blackwood, NJ
Posts: 9,689
Re: Monaco F1 GP Qualifying:Was Schumacher guilty or not?

I'll have to read up on it. Basically then, he was penalized for intentionally crashing his Ferrari during qualifying?

OK, I get it now. For a US race like Indy, the racers go out alone in qualifying, not in packs. You end up worrying about your tires and the heat of the day rather than someone crashing in front of you and costing you a pole or other top position.
jim777 is offline  
post #9 of 44 (permalink) Old 05-30-2006, 12:50 PM
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 2,781
Re: Monaco F1 GP Qualifying:Was Schumacher guilty or not?

He crashed ever so gently into the last corner in the last few seconds of qualifying, so anyone else on the track would not be able to complete that qualifying lap. Suspiciously, he had pole at that moment and his rivals were out on the track.
The F1 qualifying system is seriously flawed!
Algiman is offline  
post #10 of 44 (permalink) Old 05-30-2006, 03:31 PM
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 809
Re: Monaco F1 GP Qualifying:Was Schumacher guilty or not?

I think Michael cheated, it deffinetly looked like that. He does mistakes so rarely and never turns off his car when makes mistake. It's not the first time he is using dirty tricks. I was suprised that the penalty was so big, at first I thought the penalty could be like losing his fastest lap or he could be dropped from pole to 10th place. I guess that punishment shows that FIA took Schumachers ''crash'' really seriously. For me it didn't really look like a crash or mistake.
shredfreak is offline  
post #11 of 44 (permalink) Old 05-30-2006, 05:21 PM
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 165
Re: Monaco F1 GP Qualifying:Was Schumacher guilty or not?

I think he cheated...according to the data, he was going a mind blowing 16kph when he "lost control". That is less than 15mph .....You reall think that a 7x WDC with 17 years in F1, 5 wins at THIS track, and almost 90 total career wins really looses control at 15 MPH????

Besides he has a history of this kind of thing.
jimmi is offline  
post #12 of 44 (permalink) Old 05-30-2006, 07:04 PM
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Westmidlands, UK
Posts: 926
Re: Monaco F1 GP Qualifying:Was Schumacher guilty or not?

What a cheat, i could manouver my van round that corner quicker than that. I think he should retire, let Kimi take over his seat, and buy arrows, or some other sh!t team.
ibanez2005 is offline  
post #13 of 44 (permalink) Old 05-31-2006, 03:13 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 2,561
Reviews: 34
Re: Monaco F1 GP Qualifying:Was Schumacher guilty or not?

It did look extremely fishy, no-one can deny that, but I definately saw a difference in the racing line from the in car camera. I think that he had lost control a bit on the previous corner and gone slightly wide. He would have been very tight onto the next corner, and maybe (big maybe) damaged his suspension, or nose if he had got too close. I think it is a bit off that they keep saying that if he had damaged his car noone would have been suspicious. If he had taken off the frot wing, it would have been easy (ish) to fix and shouldnt have compromised him.

Whether he stalled on purpose is a different matter, but I have never been good at hill starts either.

As far as evidence goes, there have been several comments by Ferrari to the effect of "we had the evidence to show them, but they didn't take it into consideration". I am not sure how accurate this is, but maybe the telemetry could have proved that.

I think that if he is guilty then that was the only fair punishment. Fisi got a lesser punishment for a lesser offence as did JV a couple of races ago.

Bottom line:

Do I think MS is cynical and calculating enough to pull this kind of stunt? Yes.

Do I think that MS is stupid enough to pull this kind of stunt that looks so obvious even die hard fans are suspicious? No.
nickcoumbe is offline  
post #14 of 44 (permalink) Old 05-31-2006, 06:28 AM
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 491
Re: Monaco F1 GP Qualifying:Was Schumacher guilty or not?

I don't think he cheated for the following reasons:

He's got dozens (can't remember how many) of pole positions and wins/championships already, I can't see why he'd suddenly feel the need to pull a stunt like that.

If he was gonna do it on purpose he could do a much more convincing job than that (i.e. at least knock the front wing off!).

If you look at the footage, he definitely locked a wheel twice going into the corner - he stopped at slow speed it's true, but the lockups were going into the corner and through it (at a higher speed), making his line wrong. He stopped at slow speed because his car didn't have the steering lock to go around the corner anymore (due to his line around the corner being wrong).

I also think if it was that clear that he did it on purpose the FIA wouldn't have taken 7 hours odd to make the decision - they punished Fisichella for holding someone else up in the same session much quicker - I think it was a dubious decision at best, especially to put him to the back of the grid - normally they just take away their fastest lap.

But, whether he did it on purpose or not, the way the FIA are at the moment they had to give some sort of penalty as they penalise everyone for the slightest infringement. IMHO I think that it's getting stupid - it used to be that getting past backmarkers or finding a clear track for your qually lap was part of the skill of winning. These days if anyone is seen to do the slightest thing wrong they get punished. Anyone remember Senna and Prost deliberately driving each other off the road to win the championship? All the commentators think those days and those drivers were awesome - but they were far more cynical/cut-throat drivers than Schumi, just because these days you're not allowed to be like that. I think it's definitely added to the stagnation of F1 at the moment - they're taking away too many of the unknown factors that are what make racing exciting (don't get me wrong, I still love it - I'm off to the British GP next week).
Anyway, just my opinion - no-one can prove anything. At least it gave us a decent race as Schumi fought through from the back of the grid to 5th!

Rich
Serratus is offline  
post #15 of 44 (permalink) Old 05-31-2006, 09:03 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 2,561
Reviews: 34
Re: Monaco F1 GP Qualifying:Was Schumacher guilty or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serratus
it used to be that getting past backmarkers or finding a clear track for your qually lap was part of the skill of winning. These days if anyone is seen to do the slightest thing wrong they get punished. Anyone remember Senna and Prost deliberately driving each other off the road to win the championship? All the commentators think those days and those drivers were awesome - but they were far more cynical/cut-throat drivers than Schumi

Rich
Yep, I liked single lap qualifying, but I think that there is more excitement with the current (and the old) system.

Senna and Prost were crazy. I remember Mika Hakkinen cutting across the field at the first corner of a GP and taking out 5 other cars. I think that once Senna died the regulations really had to tighten up, and they have.

Schumacher has won and lost championships by using some very questionable overtaking techniques. I think he is just as ruthless as the old greats, I just think he is better at PR though.
nickcoumbe is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Jemsite forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address

IMPORTANT: You will be required to activate your account so please ensure that your email address is correct.

If you do not receive your activation check your spam folder before using the CONTACT US form (at the bottom right of each page).



Email Address:
OR

Log-in










 
Similar Searches

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Your One Guilty Pleasure Solo and Why ibanezcollector Players & Bands, Music & Sounds, Tours & Jams, Lessons & Theory! 58 02-14-2006 04:15 PM
Brand New, Hamer Monaco SuperPro acoustic1991 Classified Ads: Guitars and Gear 0 11-25-2005 12:38 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome