Redid my music room. - Jemsite
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-11-2013, 10:51 PM Thread Starter
 
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Redid my music room.

It's nice and cozy now, traded bedrooms with my son. Room sounds better too without the big window,blinds and fake hardwood floors. Can also hang my posters too. Have room to hang my guitars now also!!!


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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-12-2013, 12:37 AM
 
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Re: Redid my music room.

But how do you play the JS?

-Wolfram
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-12-2013, 08:41 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Redid my music room.

Play it????? Well, I take it off the wall, throw the strap over my neck and plug in that beautiful gold beast and wail away.

I am afraid to touch the PRM, let alone play it.
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-12-2013, 09:10 AM
 
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Re: Redid my music room.

That is really nice and I once considered that model my Holy Grail or ultimate GAS.

With dust and the easy visibility of that on chrome, I can see why it's in a case. I don't get why so many chrome boys have not aged well but it's probably not a long wearing finish like other Satch models. From every case, and from some other makers, it appears to be light. Ibanez usually does not make mistakes with these things, but the failure of the durability of the chrome boys have made them extremely rare and desirable guitars for collectors.

Fender also had awful finish issues, in a similar way, on a certain anniversary model strat that had the words "anniversary" written on it over a silver finish. Due to some paint issues, and some say wood that year, it got opaque-ish when exposed to light and in some cases premature chipping. The "anniversary" models in finishes other than silver wore much, much longer. The chome boys and PRMs I have seen without finish issues were not exposed to light, of which (light) is also the absolute enemy of nitro overspray finishes, and as we know now, to chrome and some metallic finishes. One thought is that if the guitar that Fender made had issues with the metallic silver finish and not more normal finishes, then it's not the wood. All wood swells and contracts and for some reason the white finish handled that well but the silver finish couldn't hang with that slight movement and thus chips easier.

As for nitro finish issues, it turns yellow when exposed to light so a sonic blue strat if left out eventually turns a turd green after a few years. A pelham blue finish (found on Gibson) can be wrecked if exposed to light too long and turns into an uneven green metallic mess. I have seen a few nitro sonic blues in good shape but they were almost never left out. Fender fixed this issue with the use of poly finishes later on and a sonic blue will now stay blue, no matter how much light is on it. Gibson still has no fix for their Pelhams lest you like the green or if they get smart and use only poly for those blue hued colors that can't take nitro overspray and years of light.

I think touching the chrome boy, from the forums on them, is not so bad. I say enjoy your axe!

There's no bad finger acids or anything that causes chrome finish flaws/issues. I would get like a velvet drape or something to keep over the case to shield light. Some damaged chrome boys got that way even when they were babied and never played. But other chrome boys, well played, but wisely kept in case when not used fared much better.

If Ibanez ever reissues the chrome boy, I hope they can find a solution to light ray damage. That being said, even without light, the chrome (and any metallic finishes) just don't look good, either, with dings in them.

Fender couldn't fix their issues with their silver guitar so they simply never used that color again. On my house, where the light doesn't hit, and under trees my aluminum trim is like new and shiny. On the south facing side, it's completely trashed, pitted, and dull. PRMs used aluminum for look IIRC. Remember also that I am talking about really heavy duty aluminum trim versus an ultra thin set of layers of aluminum and/or aluminum paint on the Ibanez.

And finally Gretsch seems to have a silver/chrome-ish guitar that has withstood the years without any major issues. This finish is more of a sparkle/glitter silver and it stays consistent over the years. Unlike Fender's silver guitar and the Ibanez Chrome Boy, there's no metal in the Gretsch and that's probably the secret. Nobody though, to my knowledge, as ever made a silver metallic or chrome finish that has withstood years of light and not get damaged. The key could be actually coming up with a shiny plastic finish from the same plastic material Gretsch used in the 1950s and 1960s.

If you keep that guitar pristine, it will be super expensive one day and be worth tens of thousands. Most other chrome boy owners will probably not figure it out, get lazy, and leave their guitars out and get light damage. I have seen some awful examples of this. If you keep it in the dark, your finish should hold up and twenty years from now, you could sell it and get a new BMW, really! I used to also sell high end porcelain and some pieces had to be kept out of light as original organic pigments would just fade or change. We had a few nice pieces with original clarity and brilliance and we treated them like the shroud of Turin and never let it be exposed to light. Those pieces had appreciative collectors who would pay anything for them and we kept those in a special room and then also out of any contact with light. I say cover er up every available second your are not playing it!

Last edited by 63Blazer; 03-12-2013 at 12:59 PM.
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-12-2013, 11:19 AM
 
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Re: Redid my music room.

What is you main Axe?
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-12-2013, 06:35 PM
 
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Re: Redid my music room.

Chrome and aluminum don't change color because of the sun. Chrome is essentially a forever finish as long as the metal underneath doesn't corrode. Look no further than the bumper of a 50's car. I'm not aware of any guitars that have an actual chrome finish.

Aluminum also does not yellow, but it is prone to oxidizing. If there's something that's yellowing, it could only be a protective finish that's over the aluminum. Having unfinished aluminum would not hold up very well. You basically could never touch it and it would simply oxidize over time from the air. So there's possibly some sort of coating that is reactive to UV.

So if UV is a concern, you would want to display the guitar in a way that limits UV exposure. You could achieve this by controlling the light entering the room, the light fixtures in the room and by treating the case itself. Really good article here:

http://cool.conservation-us.org/waac...1/wn32-104.pdf

They make some recommendations on films that are very transparent and also do a good job on UV.

In my music room, I tinted the windows with 3M Night Visions 15, which also gives some privacy so nobody can peer in.

Light intensity also plays a factor, which is one reason that art galleries are always dim. I want to install can lights in my ceiling that use the same low-UV MR16 bulbs that galleries use.

As far as a better way to coat a guitar body in chrome, seemingly the best way would be to do it the same way they do chrome plating of plastic parts in cars, which is obviously extremely durable and scratch-resistant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TW_36S_aJ0
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-12-2013, 07:22 PM
 
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Re: Redid my music room.

^^^^ I first thought the same about aluminum finishes but something makes the finish go bad and it's not "playing" the thing.

The only thing that they have in common is that for some reason, the finish gets messed up very easily and it never seems by regular wear. Is it the finish reacting to the swell of the wood? Does chrome or a chrome like finish get affected more by that natural swelling? Fender also had issues with silver anniversary guitars sometime back but no so much with non-silver instruments in that same series.

That being said, gold metallic finishes fare much better but can get verdigris from the copper often used in those finishes. It's kind of a green corrosive chalk that forms. Not pretty on guitars like some older Gibson Les Paul goldtops.

And I can't explain why my expensive aluminum edging on south (sunny) side gets so messed up quickly and corrodes and get holes in it while shady side of house is 50+ years old and holding. I can't see it being due to anything other than UV exposure. The roofer says the light also affects the roof tiles on sunny side much more. It rarely gets over 65 degrees where I live so I don't think it's heat. Anyway, it's super costly for me and I have considered replacing the aluminum with copper edging on roof. I have also seen white plastic hold up much better than my aluminum.

That being said, I am sure aluminum has its positive attributes but never use it on the sunny side of your house and my bills are a testament to that.

We are all fans of Ibanez and other than the chrome boys and PRMs, I have never heard of any guitar that they make that has such awful issues with the finish not holding up. I don't blame the OP for not wanting to touch his guitar. Pricey is one thing, but pricey and delicate is kind of scary!

It's a well known thing to keep the increasingly rare old school sonic blue Fenders in cases and not exposed to light as to retain full vintage value. I will go down to vintage store soon and see what they say about the rare and expensive chrome boys and PRMs. I have had 60+ guitars over the years, many vintage, but luckily not any sonic blues, pelham blues, or anything chrome/silver.

Anyway, from a chrome boy site:


Chrome Boy History

JS10th Chromeboy Here's a summary of the history of the Ibanez JS10th Chromeboy

In 1987 Joe Satriani became an endorser of Ibanez guitars. 10 years later in 1998 Ibanez released the JS10th (aka Chrome Boy/Chromeboy) to celebrate a decade long partnership with Joe. These guitars are now the most sought after guitars made by Ibanez.

506 JS10th's were produced in total and there are a handful of Chromeboys that were refinished by Ibanez and recorded as 507(N), there are at least 4 of these with 507b being registered right here and one documented as being unstamped. The original numbers of these Chrome boys are unknown.

In 2005 the JS2PRM was released, basswood covered in aluminium. The finish is less bright than the chrome, but just as magnificent. There was an initial run of 20 and in true Chromeboy style, the finish had issues. Later in 2006 the remaining promised 40 have been produced (making a total of 60) and are on the market.

For more history on the JS10th Chromeboy, please visit the links section.

If you would like to contribute to this history page on the Joe Satriani 10th Anniversary Edition Ibanez Guitar, please send feedback! Thanks for checking out JS10th.com

Last edited by 63Blazer; 03-12-2013 at 07:33 PM.
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-12-2013, 07:23 PM
 
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Re: Redid my music room.

Nice music room! Looks very tidy...my music room isn't much bigger than a closet and it's usually a mess with guitars, guitar magazines and pedals strewn about. The lava lamp is a nice addded touch. Where is your amp? Looks like a Pod HD on the floor so maybe you're just using that direct when you want to plug in?
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-12-2013, 10:53 PM
 
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Re: Redid my music room.

Quote:
Originally Posted by satchmo72 View Post
I am afraid to touch the PRM, let alone play it.
That's just sad. Sell it to me.

Jimmy
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-12-2013, 11:22 PM
 
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Re: Redid my music room.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Takin' a Ride View Post
As far as a better way to coat a guitar body in chrome, seemingly the best way would be to do it the same way they do chrome plating of plastic parts in cars, which is obviously extremely durable and scratch-resistant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TW_36S_aJ0
That seems to be pretty tough stuff. I don't know that an instrument panel made out of plastic, which gets touched sometimes would incur the same amount of friction that a guitar body would always being against you (and imagine if you wear zippers or buttons).

Even then, the plastic part is not likely to swell like wood does with temperature and humidity changes.

Maybe the chrome or aluminum is too stiff and when the swelling goes back and forth on wood as it will, it cracks the finish.

The chrome may have been a good thing for a stunt, and looks cool on a guitar for photos but is not as durable as a traditional finish on wood such as black pearl, transparent red, or white. The bad idea of a chrome finish on a wooden surface may just add to the rarity of an already rare chrome boy which can start at three or four grand. I would still baby the thing like crazy knowing what can happen to the value of a relatively rare piece. When I play it I would be very careful as if I am playing a '58 strat, but then never keep it out of the case when not in use. The plastic case can be fine for some other, more durable guitar. It wouldn't make sense to put a delicate guitar out all the time to justify the use of an inexpensive acrylic display case.

One music store I knew had a lot of guitars out from budget Squiers all the way to custom shop stuff and (then) expensive $1,500 dollar guitars. But they had a vintage D'Anglelico, probably around the 1950s, and that thing was always kept in its case. Being as rare as they are, even back then when Jimmy was alive, they treated it like King Tut's treasure. It was in Las Vegas and they were very aware of the heat and extreme temperature changes. I got to see it and while it was beautiful, it was so delicate it was scary to hold and play and as much as it was nearing ten thousand dollars, it was only going to go up in value and become harder to find. For Ibanez-speak, a chrome boy is our D'Angelico and again I don't blame OP for not wanting to touch it.

I talked to the vintage store today and they said an uncommon finish like chrome and/or aluminum is likely to get damaged with swelling of wood. There's a reason certain tried and true finishes are used on guitar. Anyway, I would keep it in its case.
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-13-2013, 08:30 AM
 
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Re: Redid my music room.

That BMC.... As sexy as I remember
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-13-2013, 12:17 PM
 
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Re: Redid my music room.

Nice rig.
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-13-2013, 11:33 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Redid my music room.

63, Thanks for your offer, I would be curious to what they say.

I agree with your asessement of playing the PRM. I kind of feel that the Chromeboys, PRM's, Black Dogs, Krystal Planets, EVO replica, UV77RE's and the like were not necessarily built to be played, they were built for the collector market. Out of the guitars I listed, the Chromeboys are the closest to a non-collector production #, there are over 500 of those, and there are some that are played and some not because they are so unique and rare. Rich and were talking once about the Black Dogs and he said it would be one of the best guitars I have ever played because of who built it but even then, you couldn't play without damaging it because the pickups, switch tip, trem bar and trem are all painted with no clear.

As far as lighting goes, the drapes are closed most times as I usually only get into my music room at night but might open them on the weekends, the window to my room though does not get a lot of direct sunlight due to the side of the house it is on.

Anyone who has gotten a guitar from me, and that list is adding up, knows that I take good care of my stuff. I can only remember dinging 1 guitar I owned, the Strat Deluxe I had which fell over as I was taking pictures of it. They may have some pick scratches but I am just careful, I dont leave the house with them and my friends are careful if they play them. Luckily the one time a friend lifted one up over his head to get the strap off hit the fan on the tuning peg side. I even think the one 2mm ding on the Herc came from the tech who set it up. Saying that, I could not live with myself if I scratched or dinged the PRM. I bought it near perfect for a reason, if I wanted a player, I would have bought a player. I cant control what others do though but I can keep this one looking like new. This isn't the 60's when baseball cards were used to make noise on a kids bike wheel and noone knew that the 9 Hemi Cuda Convertibles built would someday fetch a million dollars.

It's a different world, truly collector stuff is built as just that now.

Sebastian, main axe at the moment is a JS2000 I just got. The JS2000 I just got is in unplayed condition, it is perfect which caused a moment of consternation as my OCD kicked in and I thought, "I cant play this, it's too perfect" but got over that once I thought that "there are a lot more of these than there are PRM's, play this one!!!" When I need a trem though, it's the Herc. Now that it is setup and has the right (for me) pickups in it, I love it.

Dorian, I dont have an amp. I use an HD500 which I'm still tweaking tones on but again, i do a lot of recording at night, after my son goes to sleep, it is nice to be able to plug in, play and not bother anyone. I dont play out so I have what I need. I do have a Fender Mustang just in case I want to jam with someone although sadly, that rarely happens.

Thanks guys, the room is normally tidy unless I get into a project but even then I do not leave it destroyed. As I have gotten older, I am getting more compulsive, I like tidy. I feel anxious when it's not.
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-14-2013, 10:24 AM
 
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Re: Redid my music room.

Quote:
Originally Posted by satchmo72 View Post
63, Thanks for your offer, I would be curious to what they say.

I agree with your asessement of playing the PRM. I kind of feel that the Chromeboys, PRM's, Black Dogs, Krystal Planets, EVO replica, UV77RE's and the like were not necessarily built to be played, they were built for the collector market. Out of the guitars I listed, the Chromeboys are the closest to a non-collector production #, there are over 500 of those, and there are some that are played and some not because they are so unique and rare. Rich and were talking once about the Black Dogs and he said it would be one of the best guitars I have ever played because of who built it but even then, you couldn't play without damaging it because the pickups, switch tip, trem bar and trem are all painted with no clear.

As far as lighting goes, the drapes are closed most times as I usually only get into my music room at night but might open them on the weekends, the window to my room though does not get a lot of direct sunlight due to the side of the house it is on.

Anyone who has gotten a guitar from me, and that list is adding up, knows that I take good care of my stuff. I can only remember dinging 1 guitar I owned, the Strat Deluxe I had which fell over as I was taking pictures of it. They may have some pick scratches but I am just careful, I dont leave the house with them and my friends are careful if they play them. Luckily the one time a friend lifted one up over his head to get the strap off hit the fan on the tuning peg side. I even think the one 2mm ding on the Herc came from the tech who set it up. Saying that, I could not live with myself if I scratched or dinged the PRM. I bought it near perfect for a reason, if I wanted a player, I would have bought a player. I cant control what others do though but I can keep this one looking like new. This isn't the 60's when baseball cards were used to make noise on a kids bike wheel and noone knew that the 9 Hemi Cuda Convertibles built would someday fetch a million dollars.

It's a different world, truly collector stuff is built as just that now.
First off, don't worry about dings and while they hurt the value the big culprit you will have to worry about is the wood swelling and contracting over the years and cracking the finish. Get a flight case.





I talked to the store, and they have $350,000 dollar guitars in there so they know rare gear. Fortunately, you can play a 1959 Les Paul because they don't have anything super delicate. It can be a player, too.

However, certain stuff like old Gretsch guitars that used the old glue for neck that deteriorates after 20 years or some very, very thin scalloped pre-war Martins should never be out of the case. They are squarely in the collectors market and are not "players". Your guitar is a collector's piece and while it may play fine, the entire value is dependent on its rarity and the increasingly extreme rarity of your model in good, uncracked shape.

While the light is a factor, the real factor I found out is the temperature changes and humidity changes. The high end vintage store rents an old bank and they keep the expensive and delicate ones in a back vault! Your guitar should find a permanent home in a flight case where you can control temperature and humidity. You can't do that in a room, at any cost good enough for something as delicate as your guitar. It's delicate because it's a finish not meant to be on wood. It's too stiff and won't flow with swelling. It's one thing, and OK, for brittle nitro to crack and that won't affect worth that much (though a non cracked pre CBS Fender will bring a lot). Poly moves well with swelling but chrome does not. For some reason the pigment in what appears to be anything silver is also a little too brittle for wood.

I understand chrome working well for a stationary object made out of metal or plastic like one poster mentioned, but wood swells and contracts daily to even the smallest changes.

You will find others who don't own your guitar, and have not put money into it, who think it's fine to just leave it out, gig with it, and play it. It's not their loss when your guitar takes a 50% percent dive in value for finish cracking due to swelling and contacting. Before I was a player I spent ten years collecting rare stuff. When I became a player I used a different set of gear since I knew better. Collectors are one type of person and players are another and neither is right or wrong, just different.

Even very wealthy players, Jimmy Page included, can have tremendous respect for something in original condition. His #1 1958-60 era sunburst Les Paul has all original frets and only the very worst have had the least possible amount of crown work done. In no case will he refret it. The guitars with original frets not only were the ones put on at Gibson factory in the 1950s in that company's heyday, but they were the frets that were on the guitar on many famous Led Zep recordings. If he wants a smooth player, all he has to do is pull a non-collectible Les Paul from his collection and play that.

I think SKB makes a good flight case that controls conditions inside. Your guitar, not only delicate but rare, deserves it and a couple hundred bucks is the best money you will ever spend on it. If you leave it out, like on the rare Fender silver anniversary guitar, it will fall victim to the inevitable temperature and humidity changes. You know what your chrome boy looks like, so case it and keep it pristine for the world, and for the next owner and generations of owners after you. I refretted one of my vintage pieces, '65 transition tele with very rare non-L serial and slab board but with early logo, and back then when I went from collector to player and that swift move cost me more than your chrome boy is worth. I also had a fake, sued to hell Coca-Cola product and I stupidly sold that thinking it can't be worth anything because it wasn't real. I found out later that the specific item I had, being fake, was rare due to early lawsuit stopping the fake, and today that thing fetches as much as a used car.

I have not seen a chrome boy without some finish issues or the beginnings of one, and I would get a flight case this week!

I hope my musings as former collector, who has learned for costly mistakes totaling tens of thousands of dollars, helps you.

Last edited by 63Blazer; 03-14-2013 at 10:36 AM.
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-14-2013, 10:56 AM
 
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Re: Redid my music room.

Anyway, "this" is what you can have when your guitar is over 30, 40, or 50 years old while others who "played" theirs will have a puzzling chipping and cracking on the silver models of that line. The only Fenders in this silver are ones owned by collectors who kept them in cases. One non collector did have one in case but under bed in damp area and finish still cracked.

Keep yours in case but then keep case in safe area, too where it won't swell and contract. Now if your guitar wasn't worth that much or is common then I say play it. But chrome boys and PRMs are extremely rare so it makes sense to do whatever it takes to keep it from cracking.

Also, what was thought to possibly be one of the first Viking vessels was found in shallow water off of North America and to keep it intact, it has to be kept at a certain humidity level. In the case of this vessel, it has to be close to the wetness it was found in under the ocean. If that thing starts to dry, or reaches a certain room temperature it will turn into dust so temperature and humidity are strictly controlled. Not only was this rare, but a piece of proof that Europeans visited North America before Columbus. While your guitar will not be worth as much as that North American Viking vessel, it will be as rare someday when the only chrome boys and PRMs without cracked finishes could be counted on one hand.

Also, one player friend of mine, who I replaced in a band playing my own vintage Fender, had a rare non-truss rod, 1950 Fender Broadcaster (even more rare than the previous non-truss rod Fender Esquire from same year or the Fender Broadcaster with truss rod), and he modded that out. It was maybe worth ten grand then but is worth ten times that today had he kept it original. Only the bizarre, blowhard collectors like me told him to keep it original and not play it out. It's lack of truss rod made it easy to warp and should have been kept in case and not played. He did what many a tele player did when playing harder rock and put beefy frets on it for bending and hotter pickups. I don't know what happened to that deteriorating cloth wiring he originally had. Collectors want it original, and when possible, as pristine as possible. Original can up the price a few times from modded/repaired instrument, and great condition will up the price a few times more than that, especially on delicate things like a non-truss rod neck, ultra thin scalloped bracing (which was a short lived experiment at Martin to achieve best sound), or the non traditional chrome or aluminum finish of the chrome boys and PRMs.

When I was at the vintage music store, even the cases alone of key Fenders and Gibsons can fetch $20,000 dollars and they too have to be protected.

Last edited by 63Blazer; 04-04-2013 at 01:51 PM.
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