Six years for high school?? - Jemsite
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-23-2014, 04:14 PM Thread Starter
 
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Six years for high school??

I am listening to ABC radio in the SF bay area the other day then I hear a caller mentioning that one day the United States should abolish the traditional four year high school and replace it with a six year high school. I am puzzled but I listen on.

He mentions that the traditional four year degree (BA or BS degree) may one day be as common as a high school diploma (with 80%+ percent one day holding 16 years of education like it is for high school diplomas) and that merely finishing 12th grade cannot make a kid ready for the work force. In 1900, we didn't have computers, smart phones, and a whole host of technology that has made the world so complex, so today's kid needs all the tools of the basics of reading, writing, and arithmetic, but also add a component of "technology". While not making a bachelor's be the minimum, it does establish a joint diploma with both high school and an associate's degree completed after the six year high school.

This is a compelling idea whose idea may have come for the 21s century. If the money and will are there, maybe everyone should have a public, free college education and have that be the baseline.

http://www.upnorthlive.com/lifestyle...eo?id=25616063

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/...ears-catching/

http://www.thetakeaway.org/story/six...iment-chicago/

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate...-the-classroom

Last edited by 63Blazer; 05-23-2014 at 05:05 PM.
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-23-2014, 04:25 PM
 
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Re: Six years for high school??

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Originally Posted by 63Blazer View Post
If the money and will are there, maybe everyone should have a public, free college education and have that be the baseline.
No such thing as a free education. Someone somewhere is paying for it. You don't need more time in school. You need active attentive parents. Schools are not the problem parents are.
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-23-2014, 04:38 PM
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Re: Six years for high school??

Schools are they are now aren't properly funded, and any governor who wants to make easy points is quick to cut funding. I don't see the money being made available for more schooling. It's cheaper to hand out H1B visas. Let someone else pay for the education. It's an embarrassment .
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-23-2014, 04:38 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Six years for high school??

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No such thing as a free education. Someone somewhere is paying for it. You don't need more time in school. You need active attentive parents. Schools are not the problem parents are.
You are probably right. What some propose is to redirect monies in a smarter way and make the same funding for a free four year high school education stretch to six years without asking for a dime of money.

Could they do better with larger class sizes and replace school employees/teachers/administrators with computers? Could some advanced classes be used for credit for both high school and associate's degree? Could some higher up students who have earned it study from home online to finish up the final two or three years reducing the need for the extra classrooms? I sincerely don't know but it's a compelling thought to make virtually everyone in our modern society end up with at least some sort of college education. Sure, the majority (less than 50% percent) won't have BA/MA/Doctorate but the old model of a high school diploma baseline may disappear one day if the USA is to be more competitive. Don't some other countries have a K-14 free education? Does their model work? Did previous generations making 12th grade be a baseline over just 8th grade the same argument that could be made for having 14th grade be a baseline, let's say in the next 20 years? Just like 8th grade may have made a kid ready to work in the early 1900s, and 12th grade worked in the 20th century, why not 14th grade in this century? Though I am on the fence, and if even it could be done, should we as a society raise the bar for our kids and grandkids?

Last edited by 63Blazer; 05-23-2014 at 04:44 PM.
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-23-2014, 05:43 PM
 
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Re: Six years for high school??

I like the idea that our children will be better prepared for the workforce if they go to school an extra 2 years. However, this raises some social problems. We would have 19, 20, even 21 year olds going to school with 14 and 15 year olds. That is a huge age gap. How would you feel if your 14 year old daughter was hanging out with 20 year olds? Also, where are these 20 year olds living? Do they stay in their parents' houses for another two years while they continue to financially support their children?

I believe we need to cut out the fluff from high school and college. I had taken enough "core classes" to graduate in three years. My senior year of high school was spent taking BS classes because I wasn't allowed to just leave or go to college a year early. I still don't understand why everyone is required to take classes like dance and art appreciation. Let's focus on what's important and make the rest optional. We don't need more time, we need to stop wasting what we have.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-25-2014, 12:19 PM
 
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Re: Six years for high school??

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Originally Posted by 63Blazer View Post
He mentions that the traditional four year degree (BA or BS degree) may one day be as common as a high school diploma (with 80%+ percent one day holding 16 years of education like it is for high school diplomas) and that merely finishing 12th grade cannot make a kid ready for the work force. In 1900, we didn't have computers, smart phones, and a whole host of technology that has made the world so complex, so today's kid needs all the tools of the basics of reading, writing, and arithmetic, but also add a component of "technology". While not making a bachelor's be the minimum, it does establish a joint diploma with both high school and an associate's degree completed after the six year high school.
Devil's advocate - when I graduated high school, I don't think I was lacking any of the "tools" like reading, writing, and arithmetic, and certainly while I learned a little more about working with computers in college, it was pretty marginal and, realistically, probably mostly related to computer audio, which has nothing to do with my profession. I'd say as far as pure aptitude goes, there was nothing I didn't already have on my last day of high school that I actually NEEDED on my first day on the job in my first "real" post-college job, as an entry level fund accountant.

I think rather the things I learned in college were more intangible - being exposed to MANY more and wildly divergent viewpoints than I'd seen growing up in a small town in Massachusetts (with admittedly a very good public school system), and being surrounded for four years by a community of very intelligent, very academically driven, and very engaged with their world teenagers and young 20-somethings were both things that I think had a tremendous impact on who I am as a person and how I see the world. Ditto with a few of my professors, many of whom I still look up to today, more than a decade later.

Furthermore, I think the things that my employers valued (and continue to value) about my college degree has very little to do with the classroom (though, I may be a slight anomaly here as I was a literature major who then went down the finance path after graduating) and more to do with the fact I went to a very prestigious, challenging school, so one they assume I'm intelligent and two they know that I'm capable of working hard towards a goal in let's be honest one of the single most distraction-laden environments I've ever been in. It sounds kind of flippant, but the fact that there's evidence on my resume that I spent 4 years as a very young adult with no real supervision and still had no trouble staying focused on long-term goals is something that is clearly valuable to an employer, and being perfectly honest that's something I got a whole heck of a lot better at while I was in college.

So, long story short, I don't know if I agree with this guy. I could have graduated from high school and gone straight to State Street and have not had any gas in my abilities, I think. However, I would have been a much less mature, focused, well grounded, thoughtful, and open minded person at 18 starting my career than at 22, and I don't know if I would have succeeded as well (nor do I think I would have even gotten a call back for an interview, without the "oh, he went to a god school, he's probably smart and can probably pick up everything he needs to learn" thing going for me).

I wasn't really a fan of high school, and I don't see how another two years would have taught me anything I didn't already know after graduating, especially because most of the "valuable" things I learned in college were related to things like being independent and responsible without parental guidance or supervision, and broadening my worldview through the relationships, good and bad, that I made. I think college is more of a socializing and, to an extent, networking thing than anything else, unless you're pursuing a very specific technical field. Delaying that, which I hate to be cynical but I do think is incredibly valuable, doesn't seem like it would be a beneficial move.

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Originally Posted by CrazyDean View Post
I still don't understand why everyone is required to take classes like dance and art appreciation.
Ironic thing to say on a music discussion forum, no? Personally, I'd love to see some early adult/middle school and high school level education on basic financial literacy, but I also think that music and art are very important thiings to expose young adults to - they're broadly speaking both attempts to find meaning in what it means to be a human, which I think is the ultimate purpose of all education and all knowledge. It's not something everyone should do for a living, clearly, but it's something everyone should understand.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-25-2014, 04:25 PM
 
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Re: Six years for high school??

I'm forced to take a financial literacy class.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-25-2014, 05:55 PM
 
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Re: Six years for high school??

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I'm forced to take a financial literacy class.
Good, it should be as essential as the the reading one.
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-25-2014, 06:09 PM
 
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Re: Six years for high school??

Drew, I don't think you are general public in question. Out of my entire graduating class in high school, I don't know anyone who went to a prestigious college, nor can I think of anyone who was successful after college who didn't study engineering, science, nursing etc. In fact, most of my graduating class either went to a technical school or straight to work after high school. It seems to me that these are the people the 6 year proposition would be aimed towards. It's to bring the average up.

As for my comment about art/music/dance appreciation, my problem is that it's required (although usually referred to as an elective). We don't need a school board forcing children to take art appreciation. For instance, I started playing guitar at 13. I didn't take any sort of music class until I was 19 and in college. I knew what music was because I had heard it on the stereo. I didn't need music appreciation in order to enjoy it and seek it out. When I did take the class in college, because I was required, it was a fun class unlike calculus and thermodynamics. I learned about some unique instruments and types of music such as the theremin and "prepared piano". However, this didn't affect my interested in music, nor did it affect my desire to play an instrument. It did not help me achieve any goals that I had set for myself except to check that box. I was in college to get a degree in engineering. I still can only see these fluff classes as a waste of scholarship money and time of the students. Scholarship money funded by taxes just as high school is funded by taxes. We need to focus on what is important. If you think that a hobby is important then pay for it yourself. Forcing everyone to learn about and pay for something that is obviously not a life skill is ridiculous. Art appreciation is not going to keep Americans competitive in the global job market.

Anyway, I think an extra two years of high school are only going to raise the already high drop out rates.

Also, I'm glad some schools require financial literacy. That should be more abundant.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-25-2014, 07:44 PM
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Re: Six years for high school??

In my opinion the focus should be on improving the 4 years of high school, not adding more. I see sooooo many unprepared students entering college because they were not properly trained or assessed in the classes they did take. They need more rigor not more classes. Again just my opinion.
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-26-2014, 08:05 AM
 
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Re: Six years for high school??

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I'm forced to take a financial literacy class.
Good. You'll be better equipped for the real world than many of your peers around the country.
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