Yngwie didn't invent neoclassical shred shock! - Jemsite
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-03-2016, 08:20 AM Thread Starter
 
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Question Yngwie didn't invent neoclassical shred shock!

I believed the press for years that Yngwie single handedly launched modern mainstream neoclassical guitar back in 83/84 when he released his first solo album.

However it isn't true! While Vinnie Moore was playing at half speed on his "Minds Eye" album already the modern neoclassical sound and feel had been recorded.....

I was shown the true protagonist by a friend who lent me a 1977 album called "Taken by force" by some people called "Scorpions". Some bloke called Ulrich Jon Roth was widdling on the album exactly what Yngwie would "unleash to the world" more than 5 years later!!

It was the first pre-Yngwie commercial record I had heard where nearly every song is written in a harmonic minor key and I think it is in track 3 where Uli plays a 100% Yngwie run at the same speed as a fill, as for "Sails of Charon" a song completely written in E harmonic minor and apparently Scorpions fans rate it as a classic, yet in the field of shred this should surely supplant "Black Star" as a first study piece for speed sound and theoretical knowledge?

To think Ulrich did that album using normal strings on an unmodified dodgy CBS Strat....

So what of Yngwie? Well he is guilt of - deceit (noooooo!!) he ponced about bragging while guitar magazines went ape over his "Trilogy" album citing "Icarus Dream Suite" as being the pinnacle of neoclassical guitar expression and he took all the credits for writing the whole guitar piece.

However.... he didn't!! If anyone listens to Tomaso Albinoni's Adagio in G minor its practically note for note what Yngwie plays and that was many, many, many years before Yngwie "wrote" "Icarus Dream Suite".

So there we have it my childhood ruined and now I kneel at the alter of Uli, the true innovator of modern mainstream neoclassical guitar, forever shall I now use standard string gauges and a quality fuzz pedal.....

Still Yngwie's much more fun to watch live
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-03-2016, 12:33 PM
 
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Re: Yngwie didn't invent neoclassical shred shock!

I thought it was well known that, whether or not he wanted to admit it, Yngwie borrowed as much from Richie Blackmore as he did from Jimi Hendrix, his professed main influence?
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-03-2016, 12:51 PM
 
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Re: Yngwie didn't invent neoclassical shred shock!

I think it's well established that Yngwie wasn't the originator of the style. There are numerous artists, some already mentioned, who can take credit for introducing it to the mainstream. Randy Rhoads can be added to that list as well.

Where Yngwie gets the credit is taking those little bits and pieces and taking things to the next level. Full blown classically inspired compositions done in classical composition style. Eddie Van Halen didn't invent tapping, pinch harmonics, wammy bar work, etc but he took those things into the next evolutionary step. This is how I very Yngwie. He evolved what came before him.

I don't think Yngwie ever boasted about writing ALL of Icarus. The only borrowed item is the intro. I would consider that him paying respect to the piece, rather than ripping it.

Yngwie will always be one of my heroes. He may be more or less a pompous arse now, but he accomplished way more in life by the time he was 25 than most of us ever will. Gotta respect that.
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-03-2016, 01:27 PM
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Re: Yngwie didn't invent neoclassical shred shock!

Yeah Yngwie might not have invented it but he brought it more attention. Many more people heard of the style from Yngwie's rising force album than the other inventors that you mentioned.
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-03-2016, 05:32 PM
 
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Re: Yngwie didn't invent neoclassical shred shock!

Quote:
Originally Posted by btweensunandmoon View Post
I think it's well established that Yngwie wasn't the originator of the style. There are numerous artists, some already mentioned, who can take credit for introducing it to the mainstream. Randy Rhoads can be added to that list as well.

Where Yngwie gets the credit is taking those little bits and pieces and taking things to the next level. Full blown classically inspired compositions done in classical composition style. Eddie Van Halen didn't invent tapping, pinch harmonics, wammy bar work, etc but he took those things into the next evolutionary step. This is how I very Yngwie. He evolved what came before him.

I don't think Yngwie ever boasted about writing ALL of Icarus. The only borrowed item is the intro. I would consider that him paying respect to the piece, rather than ripping it.

Yngwie will always be one of my heroes. He may be more or less a pompous arse now, but he accomplished way more in life by the time he was 25 than most of us ever will. Gotta respect that.
Couldn't agree more.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-03-2016, 09:55 PM
 
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Re: Yngwie didn't invent neoclassical shred shock!

Quote:
Originally Posted by btweensunandmoon View Post
Where Yngwie gets the credit is taking those little bits and pieces and taking things to the next level. Full blown classically inspired compositions done in classical composition style. Eddie Van Halen didn't invent tapping, pinch harmonics, wammy bar work, etc but he took those things into the next evolutionary step.
Pretty much this.
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-27-2016, 06:28 AM
 
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Re: Yngwie didn't invent neoclassical shred shock!

:OOO woah didn't know it
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-28-2016, 08:53 AM
 
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Re: Yngwie didn't invent neoclassical shred shock!

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Originally Posted by btweensunandmoon View Post
Yngwie will always be one of my heroes. He may be more or less a pompous arse now, but he accomplished way more in life by the time he was 25 than most of us ever will. Gotta respect that.
Yngwie seems to have actually developed a sense of humor about himself in recent years - that famous airplane incident may have been a low point, but then a couple years later he released an album called "Unleash the Fury." Gotta respect the guy for that.

Plus, he's one of those guys who talks a big game, but can back it up. I remember years ago reading an interview with him where he said he actually plays a lot of blues, and he kind of wanted to do a blues album one day, because "a lot of people would be really surprised" by his playing. At the time, I thought "yeah effing right" and moved on, but sure enough his cover of "Red House" on the G3 album actually was pretty great - I had to eat crow there, the guy COULD play his ass off on a blues tune.
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-29-2016, 12:54 PM
 
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Re: Yngwie didn't invent neoclassical shred shock!

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Originally Posted by Drew View Post
I remember years ago reading an interview with him where he said he actually plays a lot of blues, and he kind of wanted to do a blues album one day, because "a lot of people would be really surprised" by his playing. At the time, I thought "yeah effing right" and moved on, but sure enough his cover of "Red House" on the G3 album actually was pretty great - I had to eat crow there, the guy COULD play his ass off on a blues tune.
Agreed. Also,listen to the "Red House" tidbit he does on the "Trial By Fire" live album. I couldn't believe it when I heard it yrs ago. Would have been nice form him to leave the tapping out though.
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-29-2016, 02:52 PM
 
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Re: Yngwie didn't invent neoclassical shred shock!

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Originally Posted by moebius View Post
Yeah Yngwie might not have invented it but he brought it more attention. Many more people heard of the style from Yngwie's rising force album than the other inventors that you mentioned.
I totally agree.

While I loved Uli and the Scorpions, I wouldn't have originally classified his solos or the music as neo-classical, and same with Blackmore. It's great guitar playing but Yngwie was followed by clearly classical influenced players who forged their own neo-classical style.

Either you can say Yngwie brought it front and center and that's good, or that it was so neo-classical it may have been too narrow and too redundant.

I still prefer Uli to them all and the Blackmore I like is more pentatonic and classic rock.

This kills me, part brilliant and part hilarious (for those of you too young to remember, this was cool back in the day and it's not a Saturday Night Live spoof even though it looks like it. You have to dig those moves by Klaus and the expressions of the drummer):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoI7deS76Ck

Last edited by 63Blazer; 03-29-2016 at 02:59 PM.
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-30-2016, 05:15 AM
 
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Re: Yngwie didn't invent neoclassical shred shock!

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Originally Posted by jl2556 View Post
Agreed. Also,listen to the "Red House" tidbit he does on the "Trial By Fire" live album. I couldn't believe it when I heard it yrs ago. Would have been nice form him to leave the tapping out though.
Yngwie is a much more diverse player then people give him credit for. He could replace Ritchie Blakcmore anyday.



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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-15-2016, 02:33 PM
 
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Re: Yngwie didn't invent neoclassical shred shock!

i never knew this either,that said i remember thinking hang on randy rhoads was knocking about before yngwie and he mixed rock with classical,like somone pointed out evh didnt invent tapping but he came out with it in a bigger way than anyone else,same to be said about classical and yngwie.
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-15-2016, 02:51 PM
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Re: Yngwie didn't invent neoclassical shred shock!

Black Star - intro track to YJM's solo album - was a total ripoff of Uli's work, intonation and bends. You'd have thought it was Uli really i did first time i heard it! By then however the Scorpion lineup was MTV-ized. Uli was more a hippie (modern Hendrix) not neo-classical and not a shredder.

Yngwie (over)popularized neo-classical shred but he gets all props for that. I saw him a few times on his original solo tour (Talas opened) and prior with Alcatrazz and he was a serious performer, even several years later. Can't take that away from him. Too bad he never evolved and never aged as people do normally.... glen
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-15-2016, 02:57 PM
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Re: Yngwie didn't invent neoclassical shred shock!

Aged? Oh, he aged, he just never grew up, like most of us

I never heard the non MTV Scorpion so I always thought YJM put the genre on the map. Whoever gets the credit, they're all awesome players that influenced many to come.
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-15-2016, 03:03 PM
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Re: Yngwie didn't invent neoclassical shred shock!

lol. anyways Yngwie never denied the influence of Uli on him... he did a cover of Sails on a album i'm quite sure too. Uli had(s) way better tone however but apples vs oranges... glen
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