Sick of fender and gibson's lazy designs? - Jemsite
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View Poll Results: Tired of Fender and Gibson lack of innovation?
Yes, I am sick of them. 61 53.98%
No, they deserve their reputation. 52 46.02%
Voters: 113. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 107 (permalink) Old 05-11-2010, 10:20 PM Thread Starter
 
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Sick of fender and gibson's lazy designs?

Is anyone else sick of seeing Fender and Gibson release the same guitars year after year? Earlier today I visited the PRS website today and it occured to me that they've been busy these past few years. A number of new electrics, a new range of acoustics and a a range of amps all in a few years. I then visited Fender's site and found that the most inventive idea that they could come up with to bring in the new decade is a new stratocaster. Likewise Gibson have relased a new LP. In spite of an apparent crippling fear of innovation, Gibson and Fender seem to dominate the market. Both of these companies exist almost exclusively on modal they bulit over half a century ago. Suhr, Parker, Viger, PRS, Hamer, Music Man. . . Just a few companies that continue to push the boundries of guitar design while Gibson and Fender rest on their laurels.

So do any of you jemsiters agree with me or am I just a lunatic?

Last edited by DanMeagher; 05-11-2010 at 10:27 PM. Reason: Spelling mistake
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post #2 of 107 (permalink) Old 05-11-2010, 11:08 PM
 
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Re: Sick of fender and gibson's lazy designs?

Don't like it don't buy it.
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post #3 of 107 (permalink) Old 05-11-2010, 11:13 PM
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Re: Sick of fender and gibson's lazy designs?

I'm sick of lazy thread starters with nothing better to do on an Ibanez site then whine about Gibson and Fender.
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post #4 of 107 (permalink) Old 05-11-2010, 11:17 PM
 
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Re: Sick of fender and gibson's lazy designs?

I think this is a case of "if it's not broken don't fix it"
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post #5 of 107 (permalink) Old 05-11-2010, 11:23 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Sick of fender and gibson's lazy designs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by elcid View Post
I'm sick of lazy thread starters with nothing better to do on an Ibanez site then whine about Gibson and Fender.
I'm just voicing my opinion. You can disagree with me without being f~~kin rude about it. If my views conflict with yours fair enough, but don't attack someone elses opinion cause you you disagree.
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post #6 of 107 (permalink) Old 05-11-2010, 11:29 PM
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Re: Sick of fender and gibson's lazy designs?

Of course you could always have posted in one of the 75 other Gibson bashing threads.

What has Suhr and Hamer done that Gibson and Fender haven't done for 50+ years.

Don't come here and start a flame bait thread then cry foul when you don't like the responses you get.
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post #7 of 107 (permalink) Old 05-11-2010, 11:37 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Sick of fender and gibson's lazy designs?

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Originally Posted by elcid View Post


Don't come here and start a flame bait thread then cry foul when you don't like the responses you get.
I expected alot people to disagree. The guys above you disagreed with me also. What they didn't do was a bitch about me instead of my views. If you don't like threads about gibson then don't open them, the title was pretty clear.
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post #8 of 107 (permalink) Old 05-11-2010, 11:53 PM
 
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Re: Sick of fender and gibson's lazy designs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by elcid View Post
Of course you could always have posted in one of the 75 other Gibson bashing threads.

What has Suhr and Hamer done that Gibson and Fender haven't done for 50+ years.
No doubt. Gibson and Fender were the originals and still make great guitars. And John Suhr used to work at the Fender Custom Shop. His guitars are primarily copies of Strats but with nicer woods (flames, quilts). PRS makes nice guitars too but he didn't really innovate anything but primarily copied Gibson's design.

I have yet to see anything special from Hamer and they do trivial business compared to either. And last I checked, Gibson came out with the robot guitar. Pretty innovative to me.

And please do tell about this "inventive" and "innovation" that all these other makers have come out with that aren't just a copy or clone of Gibson or Fender or a combination? I'm a fan of Ibby's but they are primarily just a ripoff (in a good way) of Gibson and Fender. And are *ironically* called superstrats.

And I'm not too sure how the two top makers are "lazy designs" yet outsell these "innovators" by a long shot. I guess they are doing things wrong and people are not buying them as a result.

Here, wait, let me drink the fanboy kool-aid: there now - hey, my guitar brand is the best and every other guitar is overrated, not innovative, not inventive and a lazy design.
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post #9 of 107 (permalink) Old 05-12-2010, 12:06 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Sick of fender and gibson's lazy designs?

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Originally Posted by gu1tar View Post
No doubt. Gibson and Fender were the originals and still make great guitars. And John Suhr used to work at the Fender Custom Shop. His guitars are primarily copies of Strats but with nicer woods (flames, quilts). PRS makes nice guitars too but he didn't really innovate anything but primarily copied Gibson's design.

I have yet to see anything special from Hamer and they do trivial business compared to either. And last I checked, Gibson came out with the robot guitar. Pretty innovative to me.

And please do tell about this "inventive" and "innovation" that all these other makers have come out with that aren't just a copy or clone of Gibson or Fender or a combination? I'm a fan of Ibby's but they are primarily just a ripoff (in a good way) of Gibson and Fender. And are *ironically* called superstrats.

And I'm not too sure how the two top makers are "lazy designs" yet outsell these "innovators" by a long shot. I guess they are doing things wrong and people are not buying them as a result.

Here, wait, let me drink the fanboy kool-aid: there now - hey, my guitar brand is the best and every other guitar is overrated, not innovative, not inventive and a lazy design.
On reflection I
think, maybe hamer don't really fit on that list . I'm not saying I dislike the guitars. I personally really like gibson guitars. That said they all there big sellers are have all been plucked straight outta the 1950s. I think they set the benchmark for solidbodies with those designs but then just stopped and now others companies have surpassed them. I suppose it's not so much the guitars as it is the design philosophy that bugs me.
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post #10 of 107 (permalink) Old 05-12-2010, 12:06 AM
 
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Re: Sick of fender and gibson's lazy designs?

While some folks may not agree with Cid's delivery, if you spend any time hear you will understand that he is in fact correct. Lately folks have been starting threads bashing on non-Ibanez brands which leads me ask what is your goal is starting this thread? What type of outcome do you expect as a result of this thread? Please understand that I'm not slamming you for starting this thread as I have no problem with you doing it. I just would like to understand what you hope to get out of it. With that out of the way, I would like to give my .02 on the issue you're raising - innovation.

Innovation is a tricky thing. Too much or too little and you lose those consumers who are faithful to the brand. If you have just the right amount of innovation (something that's different but not too different), you will succeed.

The fact is innovation requires risk (taking a chance) and the willingness to accept failure (in the case of a business that means losing money which is something most businesses aren't as willing to do nowadays.

When it come to more traditional brands (e.g Fender and Gibson), their core customer base doesn't really want too much innovation. They buy their guitars because they generally like them for what they are (e.g. if it works, don't fix it). They may change little things (tuners, pickups, finishes) to keep things from getting completely stagnant but in general, there isn't much demand to radically change their designers. Fender and Gibson still own a big share of the market so they're not willing to take a chance to lose that.

At this point, that's where the less traditional brands (anything other than Fender or Gibson) come in. They're always looking to expand their customer base so they are more willing to take chances with more radical changes to their lines. Even then, they don't rock the boat too much (read some of posts about "another black Ibanez?") because less traditional brands still have their loyalists that demand certain features in their instruments (locking trems, thin necks).

On one hand, I can understand why you would find the lack of innovation from some brands frustrating. On the other hand, if you consider why there is lack of innovation you might be able to come with terms with it and not let it get to you.
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post #11 of 107 (permalink) Old 05-12-2010, 12:06 AM
 
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Re: Sick of fender and gibson's lazy designs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanMeagher View Post
So do any of you jemsiters agree with me or am I just a lunatic?
I love strats and les pauls.

I disagree.

That is all.
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post #12 of 107 (permalink) Old 05-12-2010, 12:10 AM
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Re: Sick of fender and gibson's lazy designs?

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Originally Posted by DanMeagher View Post
I expected alot people to disagree. The guys above you disagreed with me also. What they didn't do was a bitch about me instead of my views. If you don't like threads about gibson then don't open them, the title was pretty clear.
I didn't complain about you per se, just your absolutely useless and redundant topic.
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post #13 of 107 (permalink) Old 05-12-2010, 12:15 AM
 
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Re: Sick of fender and gibson's lazy designs?

Its hard to be sick of most companies unless you own a guitar for each of them.. Im lucky enough to own some real nice Ibanez guitars, but have never owned gibson fender or any other brand, so I cant really say im sick of them, just more interested in Ibanez at this time of my life...
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post #14 of 107 (permalink) Old 05-12-2010, 12:19 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Sick of fender and gibson's lazy designs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by toneboy View Post
While some folks may not agree with Cid's delivery, if you spend any time hear you will understand that he is in fact correct. Lately folks have been starting threads bashing on non-Ibanez brands which leads me ask what is your goal is starting this thread? What type of outcome do you expect as a result of this thread? Please understand that I'm not slamming you for starting this thread as I have no problem with you doing it. I just would like to understand what you hope to get out of it. With that out of the way, I would like to give my .02 on the issue you're raising - innovation.

Innovation is a tricky thing. Too much or too little and you lose those consumers who are faithful to the brand. If you have just the right amount of innovation (something that's different but not too different), you will succeed.

The fact is innovation requires risk (taking a chance) and the willingness to accept failure (in the case of a business that means losing money which is something most businesses aren't as willing to do nowadays.

When it come to more traditional brands (e.g Fender and Gibson), their core customer base doesn't really want too much innovation. They buy their guitars because they generally like them for what they are (e.g. if it works, don't fix it). They may change little things (tuners, pickups, finishes) to keep things from getting completely stagnant but in general, there isn't much demand to radically change their designers. Fender and Gibson still own a big share of the market so they're not willing to take a chance to lose that.

At this point, that's where the less traditional brands (anything other than Fender or Gibson) come in. They're always looking to expand their customer base so they are more willing to take chances with more radical changes to their lines. Even then, they don't rock the boat too much (read some of posts about "another black Ibanez?") because less traditional brands still have their loyalists that demand certain features in their instruments (locking trems, thin necks).

On one hand, I can understand why you would find the lack of innovation from some brands frustrating. On the other hand, if you consider why there is lack of innovation you might be able to come with terms with it and not let it get to you.

You made alot of good points there. How very annoying. I suppose i'm speaking from the heart with no thought to the business side of things. My angle is that other brands have come closer to perfection than Gibson or Fender, but alot of people would sooner buy the oldies due to there heritage. But I sense thats just opening a can of worms right there. . .
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post #15 of 107 (permalink) Old 05-12-2010, 12:25 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Sick of fender and gibson's lazy designs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by elcid View Post
I didn't complain about you per se, just your absolutely useless and redundant topic.
Why did you even open the thread If you thought it was useless and redundent? Why even waste your time? I made my point and people have voted who agree and others have very strongly disagreed. If only one person other than me voted yes, who are you to call it redundent?
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