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post #1 of 74 (permalink) Old 07-19-2005, 02:01 PM Thread Starter
 
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Check this out!!!!!

This is someones response to me on another forum after i told him about how good my Ibanez JS2000 is!!!!!!

"No man. You're missing the point. The JS2000 may be okay, but you're paying Custom Shop / USA Handmade prices for a cheaply made import. It's not even an opinion thing. I know all about these companies and how their products are developed.

For $1239.99 you should be getting neck-thru construction, ebony fretboards, Sperzel tuners, quality nuts, a flame/quilt top or otherwise non-solid color finish, high quality body and neck woods (like mahogany, poplar, korina, etc...not cheap-ass basswood or alder).

I mean seriously....Ibanez have great necks, so yes they play well. That particular model also has good DiMarzio pickups I believe, so it probably sounds good too. But it's still a bolt-on, constructed with cheap basswood and Indian rosewood boards. Cheap components like plastic nuts, indian rosewood (instead of ebony, brazillian rosewood, etc), cheap tuners (no Sperzels here!), cheap bridges, inconsistent fretwork, etc.

All of this would be fine if it weren't for the fact Ibanez is charging prices on the same level as USA made or Custom guitars. If your JS2000 was $499 instead of $1239.99 that would be one thing. But it's not. Dude I have owned maybe 30 USA/Custom guitars, never did I pay as much as the JS2000 costs new at stores these days. THERES NO EXCUSE FOR THIS.

Sure the JS2000 is a nice guitar, but not for a USA handmade price when it's a mass-produced cheap import. Ibanez is a rip-off company yet people flock to their gear because they have so many celebrity endorsements and they are fads."
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post #2 of 74 (permalink) Old 07-19-2005, 02:11 PM
 
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Re: Check this out!!!!!

Basswood is quite light, so thats another reason why its used for the JS guitars.
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post #3 of 74 (permalink) Old 07-19-2005, 02:15 PM
 
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Re: Check this out!!!!!

My first question is what forum were you on? Second the guy obviously doesnt know what hes talking about because with a floyd rose equipped guitar you dont even need sperzel tuners, they would be completely POINTLESS on a guitar with a locking nut. Alder and basswood are quality guitar woods, used on many fender guitars. The cut of wood is more important than the type in my opinion anyways. Since when are ibanez bridges cheap?/ They make the best floyd rose EVER designed. The fretwork is better than gibson right now hell go look at the lespaulforum tech section and see what im talking about. hes obviously biased and Id like to see his definition of a good guitar.
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post #4 of 74 (permalink) Old 07-19-2005, 02:17 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Check this out!!!!!

I would like to see Rich from Ibanez Rules respond to that guys statements!!!!!!
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post #5 of 74 (permalink) Old 07-19-2005, 02:20 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Check this out!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sniperfrommars1
My first question is what forum were you on? Second the guy obviously doesnt know what hes talking about because with a floyd rose equipped guitar you dont even need sperzel tuners, they would be completely POINTLESS on a guitar with a locking nut. Alder and basswood are quality guitar woods, used on many fender guitars. The cut of wood is more important than the type in my opinion anyways. Since when are ibanez bridges cheap?/ They make the best floyd rose EVER designed. The fretwork is better than gibson right now hell go look at the lespaulforum tech section and see what im talking about. hes obviously biased and Id like to see his definition of a good guitar.
I think he`s into Parker guitars!!!!!! The forum was from a metal band under musicians/gear topic!!!! He also slams Fender,Gibson and PRS!!!!
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post #6 of 74 (permalink) Old 07-19-2005, 02:34 PM
 
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Re: Check this out!!!!!

I'd like to know where he can find a good custom made guitar for $1200.
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post #7 of 74 (permalink) Old 07-19-2005, 03:16 PM
 
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Re: Check this out!!!!!

What's the guy's email address?
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post #8 of 74 (permalink) Old 07-19-2005, 03:33 PM
 
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Re: Check this out!!!!!

He read the Ibanez vs BC Rich thread on ed romans site. Read it and you'll see what I mean.
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post #9 of 74 (permalink) Old 07-19-2005, 03:45 PM
 
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Re: Check this out!!!!!

This is what I mean. Pure bull****.

BC Rich 7 string VS Ibanez 7 String Universe

By Ed Roman July 1999

The Ibanez is a good production guitar but the BC Rich is truly a hand made guitar made entirely in the USA.

Neck Through Body Construction
The Ibanez is strictly a bolt on neck. The bolt in is always a Maple neck with a Rosewood fingerboard. Personally I favor the neck through the body construction like BC Rich pioneered in the 70ís. It can never break and it is ultimately stable. I have repaired over 50 broken Ibanez necks in the past 10 years. A neck through body is much less susceptible to any dead spots on the neck. There is simply more mass and the pickups are mounted right in the neck which adds greatly to sustain. One false myth about a neck through body is that if the neck breaks or warps really badly you have to throw the guitar away. I disagree based on the fact that for the last 28 years I have only seen that happen once and it was on a Jackson 5 string Bass which was built top-heavy anyway. Also if you have to replace an Ibanez neck you might as well throw the guitar away anyway because the cost will be so astronomical to do the job that it simply won't pay. This myth was probably started by guitar manufacturers who did not want to bear the extra expense of offering a " neck through body" guitar.
Multiple Fingerboard Choices
Ibanez Guitars all come with standard rosewood fingerboards so does the least expensive BC Rich But on a BC Rich you can have Brazilian Rosewood, Ebony, Maple, Pau Ferro, Wenge, Snakewood, Kingwood, Morado or just about anything because it's a Custom made Guitar.
Body Binding
The Ibanez does not offer binding on any of the models except an occasional limited edition. There is nothing really bad about that except the high cost of the Ibanez justifies this extra luxury. The BC Rich can be fully bound for about $100.00 and this finishing touch looks very nice.
Neck Binding
Ibanez has seen fit not to bind their necks. No harm done, But nothing looks better than a jet black Ebony fingerboard with a nice smooth white binding. Bound necks feel nice in your hand and if done properly they will last a lifetime. Something to consider. The BC Rich neck can be either. It costs more if you want the binding but even with the binding the BC Rich almost always will come in at a lower price than the Ibanez.
Headstock Binding
Ibanez does not bind most of their headstocks even though for years a sure sign of a premium guitar was the headstock binding. Again no harm done but cosmetically the binding on the BC Rich wins every time. Remember the Ibanez usually costs considerably more and to me that definitely justifies cosmetic appointments like neck & body binding.
Wider and Better Selection of Body Woods
Ibanez limits their body woods to Basswood, This is very cost effective and is necessary for a production guitar company to be able to survive in today's economic marketplace. You can have any kind of wood you desire on the BC Rich The wood choices are almost limitless.
Wider and Better Selection of Neck Woods
Ibanez offers maple construction on their necks however BC Rich offers maple or mahogany and more such as Hawaiian Koa which along with African Korina are probably the most resonant woods available for a neck to be constructed of.
All Access Neck Joint, No Heel
BC Rich was probably the first company to offer a heel-less smooth neck joint back in the early 70ís, yes Gibson offered an almost heel-less one on their 1961 and 62 SG but that went away. Paul Reed Smith had probably one of the easiest to play designs up until 1995 when they switched to a massively large and grotesque monster heel. I was a bona fide PRS lover until that happened. Ibanez never even tried to do anything other than bolt on the neck to a large flange that protrudes from the body and gets directly in your way.
Rosewood Overlay and Inlaid Logo on Headstock
Ibanez Never overlays the headstock they simply paint them. BC Rich will overlay with a premium piece of rosewood. Again I feel that the BC Rich method of inlaying their logo on the headstock is by far the most classy looking. They are one of the few companies who do this on their guitars anymore.
Multiple Brand Name Pickup Choices
Ibanez offers only Dimarzio pickups. Personally I hate Dimarzio Pickups. On the BC Rich you can have any pickup you want.

That man talks out of his arse. And the sad thing is that people believe him. I wonder how much BC Rich pay him.
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post #10 of 74 (permalink) Old 07-19-2005, 03:50 PM
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Re: Check this out!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bpd111
I'd like to know where he can find a good custom made guitar for $1200.
Please! Fantastic used Carvins have all the things he's mentioned and go for far less than 1200. You may not want to agree with all his points (especially when he points out poplar as a superior tonewood to alder for cryin' out loud) but a few of his points are certainly valid. It's a bolt together guitar. Is the JS so good it's worth the price of 3 or 4 RG770's? But then again, people buy new RG270's for the same price as a used 550 or 570. People buy Jay Tursers for the price of used Ibanezes. People buy what they want, and assume they've paid what the item is worth, without always giving any thought to it.

Part of the price of the JS-2000 is undoubtedly because Joe gets a cut, as it is an Artist model. But is it worth the money? That's not a slam dunk "of course it is!" We used to comment here on how much better the JCRG8670 was than the 7VWH, same thing here. If it says JS or Jem on it, you're paying above what it might otherwise cost partly because Ibanez is sending a cut to Joe or Steve (or simply because they can). I mean, we all know this already folks, right?
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post #11 of 74 (permalink) Old 07-19-2005, 04:09 PM
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Re: Check this out!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim777
Please! Fantastic used Carvins have all the things he's mentioned and go for far less than 1200. You may not want to agree with all his points (especially when he points out poplar as a superior tonewood to alder for cryin' out loud) but a few of his points are certainly valid. It's a bolt together guitar. Is the JS so good it's worth the price of 3 or 4 RG770's? But then again, people buy new RG270's for the same price as a used 550 or 570. People buy Jay Tursers for the price of used Ibanezes. People buy what they want, and assume they've paid what the item is worth, without always giving any thought to it.

Part of the price of the JS-2000 is undoubtedly because Joe gets a cut, as it is an Artist model. But is it worth the money? That's not a slam dunk "of course it is!" We used to comment here on how much better the JCRG8670 was than the 7VWH, same thing here. If it says JS or Jem on it, you're paying above what it might otherwise cost partly because Ibanez is sending a cut to Joe or Steve (or simply because they can). I mean, we all know this already folks, right?
Know why Carvins go for so much less? Because they have no resale value!!

And since when do we start comparing new guitars to used guitars? 3 770's for the price? Of what, a new 2770?! The price of a used Carvin to a new JS?! Puhlease is right.....
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post #12 of 74 (permalink) Old 07-19-2005, 04:22 PM
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Re: Check this out!!!!!

The fact they have no resale value doesn't mean that they aren't available at roughly the same price, though. They are. Do folks who by JS's care much about resale value? I honestly don't know. What you buy a used Carvin for is roughly what you'll get for it though, so the resale value in that regard is pretty good. You won't get good resale on a new one, but I didn't compare it to a new one.
If you want to compare a new JS to a new Carvin, you can certainly get a Carvin for that price. If resale value is what you want, not bolt on vs neck through or rosewood versus ebony and whatnot, then I don't know what to tell you. In a strictly value for the dollar scenario, which was evidently why the original "quoted" poster was complaining about with regard to the price of a new JS, then yeah, the value isn't really there. That money could have been better spent.

And yeah, roman is a total clown lol
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post #13 of 74 (permalink) Old 07-19-2005, 04:24 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Check this out!!!!!

Yeah....i was kinda mad at this guys reponse to me so i brought it here! I didn`t mean to cause any problems or anything,but thanks everyone for responding!!!!
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post #14 of 74 (permalink) Old 07-19-2005, 04:30 PM
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Re: Check this out!!!!!

lol, no problem. There are always going to be people who'll tell you "you shoulda bought an old Tele" and a hundred other such things. Usually they have a reason for it, but either aren't lucid enough to say why, or they don't understand your reasons for getting what you got. If you like it, and you evidently do, then rock on man!
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post #15 of 74 (permalink) Old 07-19-2005, 04:40 PM
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Re: Check this out!!!!!

Sounds like an obvious troll but i'll tackle this dope point by point w/o the Ibanez spin....

Quote:
"No man. You're missing the point. The JS2000 may be okay, but you're paying Custom Shop / USA Handmade prices for a cheaply made import. It's not even an opinion thing. I know all about these companies and how their products are developed.
INCORRECT. The JS2000 is not a "cheaply made" import. He sounds unfamiliar with Ibanez and is lumping the MIJ axes with the JS100 and lower axes made in Korea, China or wherever.

But this is precisely why the JS100/JEM555 need to be eliminated worldwide.

Quote:
For $1239.99 you should be getting neck-thru construction, ebony fretboards, Sperzel tuners, quality nuts, a flame/quilt top or otherwise non-solid color finish,
INCORRECT. Neck thru is no holy grail (see RGT3120, etc.) neither is "ebony". You can spot a Carvin (and older VWH) zealot by their fascination with "ebony". Either way you don't get any "handmade USA custom shop" usa guitars for anywhere close to $1200 new.

Quote:
high quality body and neck woods (like mahogany, poplar, korina, etc...not cheap-ass basswood or alder).
INCORRECT The cost of these bodies are negligible in mass-production. It's not like you're saving $100 using a basswood or alder body.

Quote:
I mean seriously....Ibanez have great necks, so yes they play well.
Plays well but... but..... but. LOL. Necks are very important part of the guitar, yet this guy more or less dismisses that with the back-handed compliment.


Quote:
That particular model also has good DiMarzio pickups I believe, so it probably sounds good too.
Does he consider tone of a guitar important?

Quote:
But it's still a bolt-on, constructed with cheap basswood and Indian rosewood boards. Cheap components like plastic nuts, indian rosewood (instead of ebony, brazillian rosewood, etc), cheap tuners (no Sperzels here!), cheap bridges, inconsistent fretwork, etc.
Here is where the B.S. really starts to fly. Does the JS2000 have a plastic nut? It's a double locking fixed bridge so plastic is irrelevant. Tuners are not cheap... very good actually for a double-locker. The bridge is a STUPID design, but certanly not "cheap"... it's high quality. Fretwork is NOT inconnsistent. Woods again... blah

Quote:
All of this would be fine if it weren't for the fact Ibanez is charging prices on the same level as USA made or Custom guitars. If your JS2000 was $499 instead of $1239.99 that would be one thing.
He lost all credibility here. Totally out of touch with the market. He's not sound like such a dummy if he said maybe $899 or 999.

Quote:
But it's not. Dude I have owned maybe 30 USA/Custom guitars, never did I pay as much as the JS2000 costs new at stores these days. THERES NO EXCUSE FOR THIS.


Quote:
Sure the JS2000 is a nice guitar, but not for a USA handmade price when it's a mass-produced cheap import.
USA handmade... LOL. All major brands are "mass-produced". Incorrect on the cheap import label.

Quote:
Ibanez is a rip-off company
Wonder what he says about Gibson?

Quote:
yet people flock to their gear because they have so many celebrity endorsements
First (and last) thing he said that was correct.

Quote:
and they are fads."
Time has thus far proven otherwise but that is irrelevant to judging a quality guitar or not... glen
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