The current quality of Chibanez copies - Jemsite
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post #1 of 146 (permalink) Old 11-02-2010, 12:55 PM Thread Starter
 
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The current quality of Chibanez copies

So, I was emailed the following pictures to evaluate whether or not this was a real Jem or not after Cooper9797 spent $1200 on it.

Of course it didn't take long identifying the knock of tremolo, botched J-Craft logo and lack of gold hardware, but seriously, these aren't the spectacularly crappy clones of yore.

They aren't worth $1200...but on TradeTang they are being sold for under $300. Sure this dude got ripped a new one, but under yesterdays heated discussion, I figured it might be interesting if a FRIENDLY discussion could be generated. So here are the pics he sent me...

I didn't get a picture of the input jack, so I don't know if it's recessed or not, but we can chalk these up into the collection of knowledge of what to look out for.



Handle spacing looks pretty proper to me...way better than the much older copies...But obviously the trem is still wrong. Dead giveaway.



The logo is pretty right for once...they used to botch that up pretty bad.



Knock off Gotohs, hard to tell but the logo is bigger. Also the knock off J-Craft logo. The real one is more blocky.



An upclose shot of the logo. You can see it's double stamped, and in a similar shape to the real logo. Very convinving from 3 feet away.



Because i'm not a JEM owner, I can't comment on the authenticity of the vines. I'm sure they are getting better over time, but will never match the real deal...like, ever. Thats the real selling point.



Neck joint is off, but a convincing looking AANJ.





...so thats what I have right now, as far as my ascertation. Feel free to chime in. Be nice.
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post #2 of 146 (permalink) Old 11-02-2010, 01:07 PM
 
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Re: The current quality of Chibanez copies

I wonder how willing he'd be to tear it apart so we can see what the insides of a current Chibanez looks like.

Yesterday's heated discussion was more for the guy saying he was going to sell to some other unsuspecting person and that's what we all hated the most. I've never seen anyone at Jemsite go "You stupid fool! You bought a fake! LOL!" I believe we're all more for helping than condemning.

Great observations from you on the pics. I wish only more people buying these Jems would come here first before they purchased.
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post #3 of 146 (permalink) Old 11-02-2010, 01:12 PM
 
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Re: The current quality of Chibanez copies

Actually, the logo is off as well. I always go by the position of the "I" relative to the D string tuner. See how a proper placement is right below the tuner? For some reason, chibanez models always f***k that up.

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post #4 of 146 (permalink) Old 11-02-2010, 01:14 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: The current quality of Chibanez copies

Good call Mungo, I was going by the swoosh. I knew the "JEM" looked wrong, but everyone always messes up the swoosh.
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post #5 of 146 (permalink) Old 11-02-2010, 05:03 PM
 
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Re: The current quality of Chibanez copies

I am very strongly opposed to counterfeits. Even if it "only" costs 2-300 bucks, whatever, it's still a theft. We can talk about how good or bad these guitars are for that price, but they still have someone else's name on them.

People like to point out how Ibanez ripped off Gibson in the 1970s. Sure, okay, but they then produced their original designs and innovations.

There are plenty of Japanese companies producing their own branded products of quality. I really don't see the Chinese counterfeiters doing the same thing, ever. It appears to be a cultural, national thing. Certainly the government over there doesn't care. Police raids on counterfeiters are obvious stage shows that interrupt business for a few minutes, if that.

And our government looks the other way to protect American businesses that depend on Chinese manufacturing to exist. It's not going to end unless someone, somewhere, takes a courageous stand.

Peace

Mike
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post #6 of 146 (permalink) Old 11-02-2010, 06:10 PM
 
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Re: The current quality of Chibanez copies

The locking nut and bridge are way off, waaaaay off, the trem cavity is just plain wrong, the pickguard's the wrong shape...

Ibanez didn't make shameless rip-offs and attempt to sell them under the same name. It's the use of the name that I have a real objection to, with intention to deceive by riding on the back of a brand that's taken time and money (not to mention labour) to build.

I feel genuinely sorry for this guy, particularly as I've seen a 7VWH sell recently for not much more than this...
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post #7 of 146 (permalink) Old 11-02-2010, 06:36 PM
 
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Re: The current quality of Chibanez copies

I can't think of one thing on that guitar that looks legit, not one.
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post #8 of 146 (permalink) Old 11-02-2010, 07:07 PM
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Re: The current quality of Chibanez copies

1200 bucks. Hope Cooper9797 is OK. I mean I would be sick with all kinds of emotion.

Best of luck to you Cooper9797
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post #9 of 146 (permalink) Old 11-02-2010, 07:16 PM
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Re: The current quality of Chibanez copies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Secret View Post
Yesterday's heated discussion was more for the guy saying he was going to sell to some other unsuspecting person and that's what we all hated the most. I've never seen anyone at Jemsite go "You stupid fool! You bought a fake! LOL!" I believe we're all more for helping than condemning.
It wasn't just that from what I read. It was the full on intention to buy something that was fake and if it didn't work out, sell it on for an inflated price - capitalism I believe he called it. I think the figures mentioned suggested that he was in the ball park of a mark up of over 200%. That's not just passing it on, that's implicit fraud!

Anyway, enough of that. There's good with discussing this as well as bad unfortunately. The good being that hopefully people will get educated and hopefully avoid buying one of these P.o.S. While the bad is that we could be actually educating the counterfeiters to make less distinguishable copies. Just my thoughts on the subject.
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post #10 of 146 (permalink) Old 11-02-2010, 07:38 PM
 
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Re: The current quality of Chibanez copies

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Originally Posted by NSR View Post
While the bad is that we could be actually educating the counterfeiters to make less distinguishable copies. Just my thoughts on the subject.
Which is why I don't post he ONE thing that always gives the fakes away. It is such a simple thing but ALL fakes have this one error. Beyond the bad monkey grips, AANJ, bridge, Vine, misshapen horns/contours, decals, pup look, knobs, headstock shape/logo, and all other errors.
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post #11 of 146 (permalink) Old 11-02-2010, 08:04 PM
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Re: The current quality of Chibanez copies

Good to hear. I think I've a keen eye for fakes, but I base this purely that I have been burnt yet. At least I don't think I have.

I know there's a thread specifically for fakes, but that's in a different area than here in the JEM / UV section of the forums. With not having a non-JEM Ibanez, I don't really have much of a need to browse that thread. I would certainly view it every now and then if it were in this section of the forums. Dunno if I speak alone in this capacity, but if not then it could be a good reason to have a fake JEM thread here?
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post #12 of 146 (permalink) Old 11-02-2010, 08:08 PM
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Re: The current quality of Chibanez copies

Coop sent me those a few days ago, and I had to break the news to him. It's a great idea to start a new thread pointing out the innaccuracies--they are better. The neck heel is still too long in the pocket, as well as wrong neck screw placement. I can't figure out why people still never notice the screw in trem arm on these--always the first dead giveaway! I also can't figure out why folks would be willing to drop that much change without researching--they obviously know nothing of what they intend to purchase. I just hope threads like this can help, but most folks come to us after the fact.



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post #13 of 146 (permalink) Old 11-02-2010, 09:31 PM
 
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Re: The current quality of Chibanez copies

That pickguard is wayyyy off, especially on the bottom part where it comes off of the neck and where it comes to a point on the lower horn.
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post #14 of 146 (permalink) Old 11-02-2010, 09:45 PM
 
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Re: The current quality of Chibanez copies

With regard to a fake jem thread/forum, would it be better to have a fake Jem gallery attached to it?

You know the sort of thing, genuine pic on the left, fake on the right for a direct comparison between the 2.
That would save scrolling between different fragmented threads/posts to compare pics.

If it's already been done on here my apologies, just not come accross it.

Snakeman
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post #15 of 146 (permalink) Old 11-02-2010, 11:11 PM
 
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Thumbs up Re: The current quality of Chibanez copies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlupass2 View Post
That pickguard is wayyyy off, especially on the bottom part where it comes off of the neck and where it comes to a point on the lower horn.
Furthermore, the bottom screws 4 , rather than the standard 5 across the pickguard
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