DNA/Floral Jem 2000 - Quality? - Jemsite
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post #1 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-20-2001, 11:07 AM Thread Starter
 
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DNA/Floral Jem 2000 - Quality?

* Has anyone here picked up a 2000 Jem77FP? *I am shocked by the Excellent quality of every aspect of this machine! Just Awesome!!! *
* I had two DNA swirls of my own and played a 3rd one and they were VERY poor in quality with many of the *small and large details. *This FP I have purchased hands down beats them out by a long shot! Im speaking from a players perspective and am not talking*about pricing/collecting/etc,,,, Just the Guitars over all Quality.

*Ibanez did an outstanding Job on this Floral, I hope the other 21 from 2000 are as sweet as this one. From what I hear quality control has had a wake up call at Ibanez, this seems true from this FP. *Incredible!!!*

Peace
*RJ

*

*
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post #2 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-20-2001, 11:21 AM
 
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DNA/Floral Jem 2000

RJ,

Same here!! *I was just checking out my 2000 FP last night and it's outstanding from a quality perspective. *Clean cuts, beautiful clear, excellent setup, perfect fret work and scallops and on and on. *

I'm surprised that you had found a bunch of DNA quality issues. *I can note a few that are more or less related to quality of materials, but not necessarily quality of construction. *What did you see?
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post #3 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-20-2001, 11:26 AM
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DNA/Floral Jem 2000

The FP's were just as good as the DNA's and vice versa. There were 25 of the 2000 FP's, I had been misinformed. John's was made in 2000 but wasn't one of those 25, it was one of the last Hoshino got from Japan.
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post #4 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-20-2001, 01:00 PM
 
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DNA/Floral Jem 2000

I found my Jem10 was full of quality issues. *I bought a JemVWH that was perfect in every way right out of the case. *It's amazing how such expensive guitar models like the Jem10 or DNA can have such flaws and more mainstream mass produced ones are sometimes better in quality.

The flaws on my 10th were paint related issues, nothing in the playablity of the guitar. * There is a paint clump underneath the handle, and black paint overspray on the back of the neck (since all worn off). *Also, the fretboard has 'sprinkles' which appeared to be some sort of clear coat which was dropped nearby. *It's like it was splattered... *all worn off now.

I still love my Jem10 though!

Gabe
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post #5 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-20-2001, 01:46 PM
 
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DNA/Floral Jem 2000

Yeah man I know what you mean, I recieved my UV777BK right out of the Seal Ibanez Cardboard box chipped at the headstock! Seen those little splats of clear coat on a black RG550's maple fretboard....not a pretty sight.

Florals have been pretty consistent IMHO, but one thing that bugged me was the pickup covers...why are some matte and some gloss? I've even seen one with both a gloss and matte pickup! LOL...mine has matte pickup covers.

Another thing with respect to quality control was the scallops, I've seen one with very uneven scallops as though it was done in a real rush.

Inlays as well, just ask David Ho who was in Singapore the last time round...we actually saw a 7VWH with an ebony board so lightly coloured you could have sworn it was rosewood! Hehehe, and also some of the inlays appeared to have gaps in them like little tiny pin holes...some of them...not so tiny.

It's kind of a gambale when buying ibanez...wish it didn't have to be though...Don't get me wrong I love ibanez, just don't like recieving a brand new guitar with chips!

Chris.
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post #6 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-20-2001, 03:43 PM Thread Starter
 
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DNA/Floral Jem 2000

*John, I found on the DNA's the typical production flaws of any company Guitar line. Bad set ups, off set necks, weak clear coat,(very thin with some touch ups) even dirt in the clear under the trem of one. Scratches under the pic guard of one. The worst thing being one had many scratches on the board from a careless fret job, and many frets were uneven, was the worst Fret job out of every ibanez Ive ever seen. The top lock was to high and at an angle. One had a chip in the rosewood by the top lock, and the top lock was to one side. Case came falling apart, and had the lid off set from the bottom right out of the factory box.

*I take all my new or used Guitars to a luthier and one of the DNA's I had would of had to have the frets reworked and the wood under the top lock filed to get it set up properly. *So for me the DNA thing was a major disappointment!!! I disagree *Rich, This FP puts all 3 DNA's I had in hand to shame!!! So does many of the Jem/UV's I have had in the past.. Not one of the things I just listed are reality on this 2000 Floral.

*So IMO, the DNA was about $'s for Ibanez and the Dealers, about hype!! not quality, they were slapped out!!!! *I compared my $5000 DNA next to a $2400.00 Paul reed smith,,,and the DNA was very sloppy in the fine details, not to mention the weak abalone on the DNA's. So I guess Steve's Blood is worth an extra $2500.00 in the list price???

*It's all opinion, the DNA's rule for a collector I guess, And look so cool! *but to a player like myself, I was not impressed what so ever. I totaly dig Ibanez over all, don't get me wrong, *the DNA thing is just not for me, some love em and they are such an awesome looking Guitar. *But I can't see paying $2500 more than what I just paid for this FP for a Guitar thats more collectable yet not even close to the quality this FP is.

*So in the beginning I defended Ibanez on every aspect of the DNA's, even the price! Thinking they would come through with outstanding quality. *Yet once I experienced a few first hand,,,the joke was on me and I was so wrong!!! *IMO $5000 is insaine for those Guitars!!! And even more so,,,the quality issues was quite the slap in the Face at that price.

*You can all tell by my long post im still not over the many $'s lost and negative experience it all was going through two DNA's and facing the reality of it all. *Big Ouch!!

Ibanez still rules in my book, IMO they just blew it on the DNA run.
RJ

*
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post #7 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-20-2001, 08:45 PM
 
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DNA/Floral Jem 2000

Do you think the problems with the DNA's could've been from the extra travel, work, etc. involved in getting the special finish done? *Cuz' that would also account for the price. *Although I'm sure it's not worth the $5000 (more up here in Canada) that they're charging.
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post #8 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-20-2001, 09:00 PM
 
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DNA/Floral Jem 2000

They're not $5000 most places anyway, in fact, Longe and Mcquade had a couple DNA's for $4800 Canadian and Axe music in Calgary could have gotten me one for $4700 Canadian if I'd had my sh!t together and ordered soon enough. *The going rate seems to be around $3700 US which works out to about $5600 Canadian. *
The only reason L & M had them so cheap is aparently some guy ordered 2 and then bailed so they had his deposit or something like that and Axe was willing to give me dealer price because I had just bought $10000 worth of guitars there that summer.
At any rate, I love the DNA's and wish I could have gotten one when the gettin was good, guess I'll have to wait a while now, but for the cost of them, and after hearing about some of these problems, I'm actually kind of glad I didn't shell out the bucks for one yet.
At that price tag, they really should be pretty well perfect out of the box so to speak. *Having said that, my friend just bought a PRS, (can't remember the model) and spent $6500 Canadian and it too has flaws in it that I don't think should be there.
Oh well, that's what you get for mass production facilities, even when it's a limited edition run I guess.
Jeremy
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post #9 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-20-2001, 09:26 PM
 
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DNA/Floral Jem 2000

RJ,

Man I'm sorry to hear that, cause I know what an Ibanez fan you are!! *The two I've had were perfect out of the box. *My main complaint is in the material used in the fret markers. *
I'm far from a luthier though and maybe some of these fine details lie unseen right under my nose. *You've gotta admit that cranking it up with no light except a black light has a pretty cool fun factor associated with it. *Probably even better with a buzz, but I don't want to drop the damn thing
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post #10 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-20-2001, 10:30 PM
 
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DNA/Floral Jem 2000

Yeah I second that on the inlays, I felt the colour selected for the inlays was a little to dull. And The vine used, I believe was pink...like come on some variety please But no offense I think the DNA is an excellent guitar!
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post #11 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-20-2001, 10:38 PM
 
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DNA/Floral Jem 2000

Post some pictures of your brand spankin new fp if you can.
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post #12 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-20-2001, 10:48 PM Thread Starter
 
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DNA/Floral Jem 2000

*Thanks John, I miss having a DNA big time, I realy do. I just could not live with that kind of money into a Guitar with problems and uncalled for flaws, I had 3 choices, Send it back to Ibanez? Have it fixed local, which means Ibanez will not cover it if anything goes wrong in the future, or sell it and walk away. Because of so much disapointment and frustration, I walked away. * * *

DNA's the concept and Black light effect is uncanning!!! Tone is great, and the first one I had played Awesome!!! But the swirl was mostly black, not my style. *The 2nd was perfect in looks but had the fret problems etc,,, I could of overlooked all the details except the shotty fret job, that put me over the edge! Plus given all the reality, no matter how i looked at it, far over priced for what was put out. *At least by the 3 I have had in hand. *Im Glad you got nice ones, Great to hear that! Enjoy John, cuz they are wild machines!!!

*Alls good though,,this FP I got from Rich is excellent in everyway, even the case is in the zone.
*I have rebuilt some of my Gear I sold to Get a DNA and Im one my musical way.....

* Life is good!

* Peace
* RJ
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post #13 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-21-2001, 03:39 AM
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DNA/Floral Jem 2000

Well, there's alot here I need to respond to.

***Bad set ups, ***

The setup you're referring to was when you got 32 from Matts?

***off set necks,***

Was this the one from 229 you kept telling me you couldn't get to set straight? It's *perfectly* alligned, and I haven't touched it. The neck on 32 which you traded to me was *not* alligned, but you made no mention of that. Of course it's aligned perfectly now also

***weak clear coat,(very thin with some touch ups) ***

Clear touch up, Yup, I found one on 32, you never knew it existed until I told you it was there after you traded it to me. It was extremely well done, near impossible to detect, and I don't know how I caught it to begin with.

***even dirt in the clear under the trem of one.***

Funny, I never think to look for flaws under there

***Scratches under the pic guard of one. ***

229 This was exactly what I thought, streaks left by a dirty wiping rag prior to assembly. I just pulled the guard and wiped them off.

***The worst thing being one had many scratches on the board from a careless fret job, and many frets were uneven***

Scratches on the board, Yes, these are there, obviously done by a single fret level tool, Chesbro work no doubt because this is NOT the way the factory works. I believe the neck probably 'moved' a little on the trip over and Chesbro did a spot level to correct instead of a proper level.

***, was the worst Fret job out of every ibanez Ive ever seen.***

Worst fret job?? Dude, come on, if this was the worst fret work you've ever had on the 20 odd Ibanez you've owned, you should play the Lottery!!! By far way off base with that statement. It's not perfect, no, but it sure isn't the worst, and nothing a quicky level in the middle range on the bass side won't fix. A Chesbro guitar or it would have been taken care of before it left. I missed it, that's *MY* fault, but there aren't any 'specific' high frets, just a buzzy low E, which isn't as buzzy as the 2000 FP I *didn't* send you, you know what I'm talking about.

***The top lock was to high and at an angle. ***

32 will be here Saturday and I'll be very carefully measuring the difference between the one you were perfectly happy with and the one you weren't. They are all set at an angle, that's the way Ibanez wanted them.

***. One had a chip in the rosewood by the top lock,***

yup, 229, but that's no chip, it's as deep as a sheet of paper is thick, chip is not how I'd describe it.

***and the top lock was to one side.***

Which one? It's not 229, and sure don't remember 32 (which you had no complaints about when you were trading it) having that.

***Case came falling apart, and had the lid off set from the bottom right out of the factory box***

Yup, Ibanez had a problem with a run of the cases, made by TKL by the way. All you had to do was send it in for a replacement, but you preferred to gripe about it. I had 1 too, sent it in, was immediately replaced, no charge of course.

***I disagree *Rich, This FP puts all 3 DNA's I had in hand to shame!!!***

I disagree, I don't think you're looking as hard as you were on the DNA's. The quality is outstanding, but so was it on the DNA's. They were J Custom quality all the way. So are the FP's.

***I had 3 choices, Send it back to Ibanez? Have it fixed local, which means Ibanez will not cover it if anything goes wrong in the future, or sell it and walk away.***

You had another choice, take back the neck from #32 which eveidently you had no problems with. You refused, you wanted the neck with the Crystal Planet rosewood board.

***You can all tell by my long post im still not over the many $'s lost and negative experience it all was***

Obviously by the length of my post I'm not over the 10 days of email Hell I went through with you over this situation either, but this isn't the place.

***Plus given all the reality, no matter how i looked at it, far over priced for what was put out.***

It's funny but you don't hear guys like John and Don (who each have 3 now, ooops, Don has 4) complaining about anything (OK, John does have the true RIGHTFUL complaint about the choice of abalone for the inlays!! I think we all should have that complaint). The price dictated the guitar was an issue directed at those that could afford it, not to those that would sell everything they owned to buy one. And they are extremely happy with theirs, probably because they don't have the microscope out trying to find anything they possibly can that isn't just 'perfect'. You can take a microscope to ANY makers guitars and find plenty of flaws, and I don't care how expensive a guitar you want to pick. (although I haven't personally had the chance to look over a $15,000 Dragon yet)

Arioma does have a legitamate problem, it's the same problem Allen is having and I'm replacing his neck for him, the way it should be. I hope Arioma gets the same through his dealer and Chesbro. But this isn't a *quality* issue either. It's a *wood* issue. Wood is natural, it's porus, and it's either going to move or it's not. Wood isn't a perfect substance, and nobody has had 5 year aged wood to build with for 20 years. PRS has a nice stock which is used on his very expensive private stock line, and so do some of the 'boutique' luthiers. *But this is the exception, not the rule.

I'll continue this after I've had a chance to A B 32 to 229 since evidently nothing about 32 bothered you except the swirl, which, was killer to begin with. And that's not just my opinion, Mike went head over heels for it, he just has to give it up, all his gear/guitars/rig/everything was recently stolen and he needs to rebuild, good thing he had the DNA with him, but that's all he has left and he needs to rebuild. Another thread on the rash of recent guitar thefts will be started by me in the near future.
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post #14 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-21-2001, 03:45 AM
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DNA/Floral Jem 2000

Forgot one

***Ibanez still rules***

Yes they do!!! :biggrin:
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post #15 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-21-2001, 05:04 AM
 
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DNA/Floral Jem 2000

Kevan - I can't help but laugh! *Right on man! *:biggrin:

If you're that *A N A L *about guitars... build your own. *If you want someone to build a guitar that is exactly to your standards then you might as well get a comfy chair and lots of cheetos because you'll be waiting forever. *



(Edited by jay ratkowski at 4:05 am on Feb. 21, 2001)
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basswood bodies , clear coat , crystal planet , dna swirl , ebony board , fret buzz , fret level , fret leveling , fret markers , high frets , hoshino usa , ibanez guitars , jem pmc , maple fret , maple fretboard , neck inlay , paul reed , paul reed smith , pickup cover , reed smith , rosewood board , squire strat

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