Does this neck cavity look correct?? - Page 3 - Jemsite
Ibanez JEM, UV, JS & Other Signature Models For discussion of Ibanez JEM, Universe and JS (Satriani) guitars only.

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post #31 of 50 (permalink) Old 02-17-2021, 12:40 PM
 
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Re: Does this neck cavity look correct??

Yeah, I just took a pic myself, the z of my 30th is much closer the headstock edge than the 7v
https://imgur.com/a/kc1WomY

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob493 View Post
Im not even sure why there was "doubt" to begin with; im open for discussion. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, I can handle that. Ive recently came across an outrageously convincing fake, and the thing even had a fake "lo-pro" that was scary accurate. The only thing that made me question it at first was the tremolo arm was a schaller "screw down" type. From there I REALLY looked it over and found these similar things wrong. They arent necessarily like they were 10+ years ago where you could see the inlay and laugh at it from just that. Its honestly kind of scary.
No, and you're conveniently (for you) ignoring the images showing why the ibanez tick mark stops before the headstock tip

Last edited by joabim; 02-17-2021 at 01:45 PM.
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post #32 of 50 (permalink) Old 02-17-2021, 12:45 PM
 
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Re: Does this neck cavity look correct??

^^ Yep. Plus this also shows the subtle differences in the shape of the 'duckbill', both being within official tolerance.
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post #33 of 50 (permalink) Old 02-17-2021, 01:37 PM
 
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Re: Does this neck cavity look correct??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Takin' a Ride View Post
You are wrong. This is a 100% legit guitar. You've pointed out a bunch of stuff like "bad routing" and "pickguard is wrong" but haven't bothered to explain what you mean. You've also made odd claims like the finish on screws. Have you ever seen old gold hardware? And your claim about the logo on the pickup being incorrect is just straight out wrong.
Not only have I explained it, I've explained multiple times with pictures to show what Im talking about. Lets try this ... one more time...
Attached Images
File Type: png differences4.png (880.9 KB, 24 views)
File Type: png routing.png (1.27 MB, 22 views)
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post #34 of 50 (permalink) Old 02-17-2021, 01:39 PM
 
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Re: Does this neck cavity look correct??

Quote:
Originally Posted by joabim View Post
Yeah, I just took a pic myself, the z of my 30th is much closer the headstock edge than the 7v
https://imgur.com/a/kc1WomY



No, and you're conveniently (for you) ignoring the images showing why the ibanez tick mark stops before the headstock tip
Nope. Tell you what bud, you go find a LEGITIMATE JEM7VWH (not a silk screened GMC, not a silk screened reissue, not a silk screened whatever, a JEM7VWH) with a misplaced decal like the one I showed, and I'll pay pal you 20$. Sound good?

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Originally Posted by Ashurbanipal View Post
Looks fine to me. Those who make/sell counterfeit Jems over the internet wouldn't bother going to this level of detail, particularly with the stamp in the neck pocket. In order to keep the price down, they'll skimp on various things, one of the biggest give-aways usually being the trem (a new Edge or Lo Pro costs just about as much one counterfeit axe).

Also, the trem checks out for 2010 and later –*the Edge was reintroduced on Jems, JSs etc. in 2010 and since then it doesn't bear the 'licensed under Floyd Rose patents' script on the whaletail because the whaletail patent Floyd (the man) held run out in the meantime.

Decal placement (and size) does vary subtly on guitars over the years too. Have seen plenty where the 'I' in Ibanez is almost touching the D string tuner bushing.

They make fake rolex's that are good enough to fool dealers.

And I never doubted the trem; thats definitely a legit Edge trem. And no, you havent seen JEM7VWH's with misplaced decals touching the D string. Sorry but you havent. Same deal for you, find a misplaced JEM7VWH decal, and I'll paypal you 20$.
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post #35 of 50 (permalink) Old 02-17-2021, 02:49 PM
 
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Re: Does this neck cavity look correct??

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob493 View Post
Nope. Tell you what bud, you go find a LEGITIMATE JEM7VWH (not a silk screened GMC, not a silk screened reissue, not a silk screened whatever, a JEM7VWH) with a misplaced decal like the one I showed, and I'll pay pal you 20$. Sound good?
What about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibanez...z_Jem_7VWH.jpg

or Ibanez's own product picture of the 7v: https://www.ibanez.com/common/produc...00_12_en_1.png

It's evident that it's not common, but what I'm showing is it's not impossible.
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post #36 of 50 (permalink) Old 02-17-2021, 04:15 PM
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Re: Does this neck cavity look correct??

I'm glad I slept thru this.

The routing, I've seen enough neck pockets that absolutely nothing is perfect that would not preclude me to believe anything. Chips in the neck pocket? Common.

The bevel on the pickguard, that I did not catch, that is not right.

The headstock, I never saw close ups of that, I have no idea what's going on with that logo.

That is rosewood as far as I'm concerned.

I've seen alder look like basswood and pine, you can never judge a wood by a little slice of look.

The serial stamp, it is gray, the lower the light the darker the logo looks, the brighter the light the lighter it looks. The dimensions are correct as is placement.

Of course they always stamped Dimarzio on the pickups, except on retail sales pickups.

I would have liked to see a shot of the neck heel when the neck was off to see the inspection marks but if it is a fake they would have gone far enough to have done those too. If they've progressed to this point of accuracy, I haven't seen one. If you have other examples we can look at please post them.
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post #37 of 50 (permalink) Old 02-17-2021, 04:18 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Does this neck cavity look correct??

Hello everyone. So..... I have gone over this guitar with a fine tooth comb. Bridge is correct, pots and electronics are correct, pickups are correctly stamped Dimarzio EVO's., neck has the correct stamp and I have the original hang tag with the serial number on it to verify it. Headstock overlay looks to me like the "artist" who painted it masked off the logos and refinished it. The guy I bought it from told me that he didn't want to disturb the original logo. Neck pocket stamp is correct. The last 4 frets are scalloped. I have owned 4 Jems prior to this one and this one feels, plays and sounds like the other ones. Its not heavy at all. All the screw holes match other Jems, it has a pop in bar. The guy I got it from is local. He has a Pia and several other Jems. He was selling this one to fund the purchase of another Pia.
Here are my thoughts on this guitar. I paid $950 for it. He was asking $1100. I can't see why someone would go through all the cost of creating a fake which meant getting everything correct including the neck and all the electronics and the bridge etc... and then refinish it in a non stock paint scheme. You would think that after all that effort and money they would paint it the factory WH color. Regarding the logo placement on the headstock... I owned other Jems and the placement wasn't exactly the same on any of them. I didn't weigh the guitar but it feels like its around 7-1/2 lbs. Similar in weight to an RG550. I am in no way an expert on JEM guitars but I did own 4 of them in the past and I have been playing guitar professionally since 1979. I do all my own work on my guitars and amps so I have take apart just about every type of guitar you can think of. To me... this looks like its a stock JEMV-WH that somebody refinished in yellow confetti and added some pink accents. The headstock looks to be exactly what the seller told me it is. The logos were masked off and it was refinished. When he pulled the tape it left the edge that you can clearly see. Judging by the quality of the paint on the body I am not surprised. Its not a great deep thick glossy paint job. Its very smooth with no runs but its certainly not a pro paint job. I defer to the experts though. If it is a fake.. its the best fake I ever saw and it has a ton of great parts on it including an awesome scalloped Jem neck complete with the original hang tag.
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post #38 of 50 (permalink) Old 02-17-2021, 04:36 PM
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Re: Does this neck cavity look correct??

There was always fake hang tags to go with the guitar that matched the serial number, the problem was they all had the same serial number which was usually for a 555 or something else. Of course we've been talking about all the problems with these fakes for so long we've given them a roadmap of how to build a correct fake. These are still $100 in China. The guy you bought it from didn't fake it, a sweat shop would have, but this is one they would have taken off an original to get this level of detail correct. The version 09 is correct for the year and all stamps match, although they have had a decade to make counterfeits close enough that pictures won't easily reveal as they would when they were hideouts. I'm not saying it's fake, but I'm not saying it's real, I'm saying if bob has more examples of fakes to this level of accuracy he'd be doing us a great service to show us instead of arguing over this guitar.
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post #39 of 50 (permalink) Old 02-17-2021, 04:46 PM
 
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Re: Does this neck cavity look correct??

I found the reddit thread bob used for his "can you tell which is which?" post: https://www.reddit.com/r/guitars/com...t_to_get_fake/
Compared to 10 years ago, it's absolutely closer, but without the censoring it's still really easy to tell (ignoring the hardware. The shape of the headstock, the monkey grip, the soft, roundness of the body edges)
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post #40 of 50 (permalink) Old 02-17-2021, 04:47 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Does this neck cavity look correct??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
There was always fake hang tags to go with the guitar that matched the serial number, the problem was they all had the same serial number which was usually for a 555 or something else. Of course we've been talking about all the problems with these fakes for so long we've given them a roadmap of how to build a correct fake. These are still $100 in China. The guy you bought it from didn't fake it, a sweat shop would have, but this is one they would have taken off an original to get this level of detail correct. The version 09 is correct for the year and all stamps match, although they have had a decade to make counterfeits close enough that pictures won't easily reveal as they would when they were hideouts. I'm not saying it's fake, but I'm not saying it's real, I'm saying if bob has more examples of fakes to this level of accuracy he'd be doing us a great service to show us instead of arguing over this guitar.

Absolutely and I went into this with both eyes open. Worst case scenario is I got a beautiful playing and sounding guitar. Its a joy to play and it sounds fantastic. I did tons of research and asked many questions for easily 2 weeks before I pulled the trigger on it. I researched every fake I could find and every website or thread explaining how to spot a fake. From what I found.. fakes fall into categories and they all have tell tale things that are blatantly wrong. Especially the VERY inexpensive ones.
Regarding fake necks... I have never seen a fake one that looked as correct as the one I have. The fret work, the inlays, the scallops, the tuners, the serial number on the back... they are all correct. The serial number color, font, placement on the back of the headstock is all correct. Even the pots, 5 way switch, wiring and the jacks are all correct. If its fake.. I am cool with it. I love the guitar. I don't believe it is fake. Nobody would go through that much effort regarding correct JEM parts and then blow it at the end with a custom paint job that obviously doesn't look stock.
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post #41 of 50 (permalink) Old 02-17-2021, 04:58 PM
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Re: Does this neck cavity look correct??

A redit page of an obvious fake isn't helpful. I'm talking about one that will fool us by pictures.

If you can buy a fake that will pass picture inspection new for $500, add some original parts, use it for whatever, and still get your money out of it, there is no argument. The question remains, are fakes of this level of "originality" out there, and if there are I want to know, I want to see lots of close ups, I want to buy one to pull apart to show to Ibanez.
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post #42 of 50 (permalink) Old 02-17-2021, 05:11 PM
 
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Re: Does this neck cavity look correct??

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Originally Posted by Rich View Post
A redit page of an obvious fake isn't helpful. I'm talking about one that will fool us by pictures.

If you can buy a fake that will pass picture inspection new for $500, add some original parts, use it for whatever, and still get your money out of it, there is no argument. The question remains, are fakes of this level of "originality" out there, and if there are I want to know, I want to see lots of close ups, I want to buy one to pull apart to show to Ibanez.
What I meant is that this seems to be what he alludes to (https://www.jemsite.com/forums/f15/2...ml#post1559649) when talking about scary accurate, but bob can happily prove me wrong, I also want to see these jem copies
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post #43 of 50 (permalink) Old 02-17-2021, 06:19 PM
 
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Re: Does this neck cavity look correct??

Bottom line, if you're happy with the guitar and what you paid for it, that's all that matters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob493 View Post
They make fake rolex's that are good enough to fool dealers.

And I never doubted the trem; thats definitely a legit Edge trem. And no, you havent seen JEM7VWH's with misplaced decals touching the D string. Sorry but you havent. Same deal for you, find a misplaced JEM7VWH decal, and I'll paypal you 20$.
I was thinking about Ibanez logos 1987 onwards more broadly, not specifically 7VWHs. This guitar has been in production for almost 30 years, so it wouldn't surprise me if there were some small variations over that period of time, like logo size, placement, pickguard bevels, shifts in certain lines etc. Even things like the vine inlay, which uses very little filler around the pieces these days because the computer controlled routers have gotten better since 1990s.

But, since you're interested in 7VWH logos, here's one which Steve himself owned, '09 Fujigen serial, with 2010 spec no script trem. Logo looks awfully close to that tuner. There's others, but several are LACS, and thus not regular production line examples.


Looking at NAMM pics on Rich's site, the 7VWH from 2010 also seems to have the logo a bit closer to the tuner, compared to an '09 etc.

I'm just saying/pointing this out to highlight the view that even though production of electric guitars is considerably automated these days, there is still some level of variability ultimately down to human error/decision, so we cannot put every small inconsistency down to the idea that something is counterfeit. You'd also need to have had personal experience with a massive sample in order to define these variables and how an actual fake stacks against them.

In another thread the other day, Rich mentioned that several Genesis models in the past couple of years had different profile/thicker necks than the professed Wizard, after hearing experiences from other people and measuring them himself. Obviously, the guitars came directly from Ibanez, so ruling out the idea that they're counterfeit.
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post #44 of 50 (permalink) Old 02-17-2021, 07:03 PM
 
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Re: Does this neck cavity look correct??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
A redit page of an obvious fake isn't helpful. I'm talking about one that will fool us by pictures.

If you can buy a fake that will pass picture inspection new for $500, add some original parts, use it for whatever, and still get your money out of it, there is no argument. The question remains, are fakes of this level of "originality" out there, and if there are I want to know, I want to see lots of close ups, I want to buy one to pull apart to show to Ibanez.
Im gonna PM you, and you'll understand why... but after I message you, you can let the world know if Im "over zealous" here or not lol.
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post #45 of 50 (permalink) Old 02-17-2021, 07:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob493 View Post
Im gonna PM you, and you'll understand why... but after I message you, you can let the world know if Im "over zealous" here or not lol.
I’m honestly curious too if you don’t mind sharing
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