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post #1 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-13-2014, 10:53 AM Thread Starter
 
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JEM 7VWH 2012

I had a conversation going in the wrong thread so I'll move it here.

Anyway long story short I bought a 2012 Jem and I have 30 days to return. I have been advised by multiple people here to get rid of it because they have a known design flaw which cause intonation issues on the high E above the 12th fret.

So last night (May 12) the guitar was delivered so I plugged it in and gave her a whirl. The feel and sound is great but I got to business and started with the trem. I tuned and intonated the guitar using the 12th fret and everything is fine . I was told its while doing a different type of intonation that the problem starts to show. So with that said I'm gonna play with it tonight and tomorrow it's going to the store to get a setup.

Basically one of my last questions before I moved threads was what is the purpose of doing the different intonation method? Is this a much finer intonation method?

I have a free setup and 30 days I have to give this guitar a chance. I'm aware this war has issues but I have to give the girl a chance.
I'll keep everyone updated.
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post #2 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-13-2014, 11:25 AM
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Re: JEM 7VWH 2012

It's the wound E, not the high E.



One popular alternative is to adjust each string so that it is in tune at two points an octave apart from each other on the fret board using a strobe tuner.


Using the 5th and 17th fret as an example: Tune a string at the 5th fret

Check the string at the 17th. If sharp, move the saddle back, thus lengthening the string (turn the saddle screw clockwise). If flat, shorten the string by moving the saddle forward (turn the saddle screw counter-clockwise).


Always re-tune the open string after adjusting the saddle position before re-checking the result. Remember to fret the string using the pressure that you would normally apply while playing. Keep repeating this process until each string is in tune as much as possible at both the 5th and 17th frets.


This method takes time, and has to be repeated if you change string gauges, but if properly executed, yields very satisfactory results.


Now, before you play music with a lot of 5ths on your guitar (e.g. power chords), tune the guitar using the GTR, P5 or G5 setting , depending on which model of strobe tuner you own, otherwise use the EQU (default) setting to tune your guitar.
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post #3 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-13-2014, 11:33 AM
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Re: JEM 7VWH 2012

Rich, what is the problem in '12 that the low-E can't be intonated properly? Why is this exactly (I know it's been covered)? ... glen
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post #4 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-13-2014, 12:01 PM
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Re: JEM 7VWH 2012

If you know it's been covered why ask again?
It's 11's, 12's, and 13's.
The problem was in the body, my rep went thru a stack of 20 13's looking for 1 good one while I sat with the buyer and we broke down an early 11' I borrowed from a customer [that was good] and a 13', and swapped everything around to find the source. As close as we could get was the problem was in the body.
No, there wasn't 1 good guitar in that stack.
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post #5 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-13-2014, 12:11 PM
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Re: JEM 7VWH 2012

Thx, I know you (probably) covered it, i didn't read it having no interest in buying new JEMs :-)

What exactly is the cause though... low E stud/post in the wrong spot? ... glen
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post #6 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-13-2014, 12:19 PM
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Re: JEM 7VWH 2012

As I said, the closest we got was that it was in the body. There was nothing external we could find different between the 2, we measured, we pulled the guards, we spent 2 hours trying to figure it out. The bodies did have different version numbers but he didn't know what was different about the versions [only the engineers do]. Remember it took Japan 2 years to fix this after it was reported to them. It wasn't anything simple, I don't think, and they're not saying.
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post #7 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-13-2014, 12:39 PM
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Re: JEM 7VWH 2012

It's fixed now right? If so you can bet your life they knew the reason! Of course the reason would be kept closely guarded.

Ibanez is not the type of company i'd expect to proactively fix things... especially since their "customer" is the dealer not the player. Most players wouldn't realize this or blame themselves, or the strings or something else.... glen
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post #8 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-13-2014, 12:43 PM
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Re: JEM 7VWH 2012

AFAIK, I selected a new 14' to test when I was up picking up a load, not thinking they would be [had a customer waiting for over a year for me to get him a good new one] and it tested out perfect. I haven't had the opportunity to look at more, or pressing need. These are very slow selling guitars which explains why I had 4 in stock for almost a year and had no idea they were bad.

The fact nobody could tell is evident on this board where you see a serious lack of threads asking why their new VWH's sound like cats fighting.
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post #9 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-13-2014, 01:11 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: JEM 7VWH 2012

So why is it than no one could tell? Is it something you really gotta listen for with a good set of ears or should it be pretty evident? I can't comment on sound of the 2012 I received because I was working late an only tried to tune it up and intonate using the 12th fret and it seemed good but I have to tinker with it tonight. I'm still holding hope that I have the one good one in existence.



Is there a way I can check for the issue without a strobe tuner ?
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post #10 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-13-2014, 01:18 PM
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Re: JEM 7VWH 2012

Shredders never stop for a second to listen to the dissonant fighting overtones on the wounds strings over half scale. You don't need a strobe.
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post #11 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-13-2014, 01:25 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: JEM 7VWH 2012

So a beautiful sounding strummed chord has nothing to do with the issue uhhh. That's good to know.

To clarify my method of tuning I'm gonna to te would E string to perfect pitch and hit my 5th fret in which I should see an A note and the same for the 17th?

Simply moving the saddle back and forth will adjust this. Now is there anything to work with if the 5th and 17th fret are apart on each other ? Or if the fifth fret is in should the 17th fall in place with it ?
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post #12 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-13-2014, 01:34 PM
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Re: JEM 7VWH 2012

A poorly intonated axe can still sound beautiful. A perfectly intonated axe can sound horrible (tone is in the fingers remember haha).

As much as i am 100% certain Rich is correct in his finding this defect and Ibanez having taken 2 years to correct... i'm just as confident that 99.99% of the JEM audience really would never notice the defect due to their playing style and lack of subtlety. Ignorance truly is bliss... glen
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post #13 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-13-2014, 01:42 PM
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Re: JEM 7VWH 2012

Ditto. Note conversation with my rep after the first revision [13's], which would intonate with about .5mm of adjustability left.

But, they intonate, right? So what's the problem?
Ange, they're not right, I'm not going to sell them until they are. Fret and listen to the 17th low E!
"cringe"
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post #14 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-13-2014, 01:50 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: JEM 7VWH 2012

So even my 12 before the revision would be hardly noticeable to most?
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post #15 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-13-2014, 02:14 PM
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Re: JEM 7VWH 2012

Poor intonation is poor intonation. Lets be clear, it would be noticeable to anyone not completely tone-deaf IMHO in "testing" the two A notes on low E string.

Now the question is how does that effect the specific notes you play and where on the fret board they are played. Theory versus reality.

Based on your comments unless you are going to return it just compensate by intonating the 5th fret as relatively correct because the way a typical shredder plays at the 17th fret wound-strings the defect would be moot ... glen
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