Keeping the LNG! - Jemsite
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post #1 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-08-2013, 02:37 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canadia
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Keeping the LNG!

Made some solid bank today, so i can afford to keep my LNG

Anyways, a few questions:

a) How should i preserve the signature/serial number? I remember someone had these clear plastic things you could put on them or something along those lines?

b) If I swap the pickups should I be sure to keep them, original pots, etc?

c) Should I refret it? The frets are totally fine as they are right now but I want to get some jumbo stainless steel frets thrown on because I love the feel of SS frets.


Thoughts?
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post #2 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-08-2013, 03:11 AM
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Re: Keeping the LNG!

Keep the pots on older jems.... They are difficult and rare.... Dont waste money refretting now if the frets are ok...
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post #3 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-08-2013, 03:54 AM
 
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Re: Keeping the LNG!

Keep it as original as possible. Like old Fenders, I reckon any change, even if it makes the guitar "better" will decrease its value.
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post #4 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-08-2013, 04:28 AM
 
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Re: Keeping the LNG!

Why not just strip it back to wood and repaint it? Seriously, for someone who was saying he was scared to play it for fear of messing up the fretboard you don't seem to mind tearing the guts out of it.

I give it a week before it's back in the Classifieds anyway
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post #5 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-08-2013, 05:28 AM
 
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Re: Keeping the LNG!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealthtastic View Post
Made some solid bank today, so i can afford to keep my LNG

Anyways, a few questions:

a) How should i preserve the signature/serial number? I remember someone had these clear plastic things you could put on them or something along those lines?

b) If I swap the pickups should I be sure to keep them, original pots, etc?

c) Should I refret it? The frets are totally fine as they are right now but I want to get some jumbo stainless steel frets thrown on because I love the feel of SS frets.


Thoughts?
I keep everything.

I used to be a serious vintage collector so original is good. Stuff like refinishing body and/or neck, refretting, and rewiring can improve looks and sound, but can seriously hurt vintage value. I know because I refretted an old Telecaster but lost half the value on the thing. Sure, it didn't play and fretted out but collectors (often not players at all) pay the big bucks for original things.

So I am OK with swapping out pups, rewiring, and refretting a common cheap thing like my Artcore but I would think twice about messing with a old Jem which can soon be considered a vintage guitar. Case in point is a couple of 50s strats I played the other day. One is totally original, almost rendered unplayable due to wear on frets and edges of neck but about $25K. Right next to it is an identical guitar but with refret (still 40 years old but little wear) and solid rewiring with working pots and switches. That guitar, far more playable and better sounding, is less than half the price. While the latter is meant to be played and enjoyed, the original one is strictly an investment sure to increasingly go up in value as players hack up and repair old, vintage guitars not knowing how much damage they are doing to value and guitar history.
63Blazer is offline  
post #6 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-08-2013, 07:55 AM
 
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Re: Keeping the LNG!

I wouldn't mess with the frets. If you wanted to swap the electronics to make it a better player, first off you want to keep all the originals and second you want to mess with wiring as little as possible. If I were going to do that, I'd desolder the output wires from the jack and then remove the entire harness as one piece. Obviously, you'd have to replicate the entire harness, but that isn't terribly hard.

I've actually found that the wiring doesn't always work that great on these old Jems. The neck pickup doesn't work at all on my LNG. I had the same issue with my PBK, but all it took was desoldering and resoldering the wires to the switch and then everything worked fine. I think that the old solder joints just have a tendency to lose their continuity.
Takin' a Ride is offline  
post #7 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-08-2013, 12:17 PM
 
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Re: Keeping the LNG!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Takin' a Ride View Post
I wouldn't mess with the frets. If you wanted to swap the electronics to make it a better player, first off you want to keep all the originals and second you want to mess with wiring as little as possible. If I were going to do that, I'd desolder the output wires from the jack and then remove the entire harness as one piece. Obviously, you'd have to replicate the entire harness, but that isn't terribly hard.
+1

This way you can revert back to original factory wiring as it came out to the store for the collectors who won't accept anything less.

Also if you have the original paperwork and hang tags, it can add 20% percent or more to the value of a vintage guitar.

Collectors are, and should be, concerned most about originality and not playability. An original, but shorted out buzzing guitar with flattened frets is still far more desirable to a collector than a guitar that has a newly refretted neck and brand new pots and harness without any noise. The trick for a collector is to get an instrument, flaws and all, the way it was from the factory. While I have seen a far more stable four bolt plate put on an old three bolt, tilt neck Fender from some of its worst days after CBS, the collector wants that CBS era neck with the original three bolt neck and questionable tilt neck monstrosity on the guitar. The ill advised three bolt neck was one of the things that defined the hostile CBS takeover and such a guitar is to show Fender's history, even if it was bad.

Let's say many early Jems suffered from bad wiring and/or pots. The player would want to replace that ASAP but the collector needs it to stay put. Just do as poster mentioned and take out the whole thing in one piece and rebuilt new wiring harness for the playability and sound.
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post #8 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-08-2013, 12:37 PM
 
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Location: Washington, DC
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Re: Keeping the LNG!

Well clearly Jems are barely 25 years old at this point and are still relatively easy to find, so I'm not currently seeing any real demand for them in rough or otherwise unplayable condition. Hang tags, warranty cards and other "case candy" definitely add significant value, but overall the guitars are judged almost entirely on appearance, the more mint the better. I will say that unless things like pickups are obviously changed, I don't see people asking about how original the wiring is.

Will it eventually become more like Fender and Gibson? Perhaps, especially as more and more guitars get into the hands of collectors and fewer end up up for sale.

I will point out that I don't believe there's anything special about the pots used in early Jems. They're exactly the same ones used in every RG, with the exception of the volume bleed circuit on the volume pot. A lot of the other hardware will give away an '87, but not the pots of the switch.
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post #9 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-08-2013, 12:43 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canadia
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Re: Keeping the LNG!

See, I'm not really too concerned with resale to be honest. I just don't want to be "that" dick that ruins the guitar for the next owner in the future.

I have never been a huge vai fan but always loved his guitars and like them more for the 90s death metal bands like Morbid Angel I saw playing them when I was younger.

But anyways, you guys think it should be fine if i just remove the original knobs/switch tip and put them in the case plus the full wiring harness?

I like the neck pickup but i need something less flubby for the bridge.
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post #10 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-08-2013, 01:01 PM
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Re: Keeping the LNG!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealthtastic View Post
See, I'm not really too concerned with resale to be honest. I just don't want to be "that" dick that ruins the guitar for the next owner in the future.

I have never been a huge vai fan but always loved his guitars and like them more for the 90s death metal bands like Morbid Angel I saw playing them when I was younger.

But anyways, you guys think it should be fine if i just remove the original knobs/switch tip and put them in the case plus the full wiring harness?

I like the neck pickup but i need something less flubby for the bridge.
Go for it, man!

Just keep all of the original parts in that bag for future use.

As far as protecting the signature, you can use that clear film that others use. Some people mask off the area and spray dusting coats of clear over the signature and any squiggles--but that film will work fine.



AlaskaBat is offline  
post #11 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-08-2013, 01:08 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canadia
Posts: 1,969
Re: Keeping the LNG!

What clear film do you guys use specifically?
Stealthtastic is offline  
post #12 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-08-2013, 03:47 PM
 
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Re: Keeping the LNG!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealthtastic View Post
What clear film do you guys use specifically?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-x8-3M-Scot...7cfa87&vxp=mtr

Remember if you sometime will take of the film and don't destroy the signature you must glue to films together and make one of them bigger so it will be just a frame with glue around the signature area. Or just put som very thin plastic over the signature and then put on the 3M film.
Stensen is offline  
post #13 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-08-2013, 04:01 PM
 
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Re: Keeping the LNG!

Take out the Edge Trem and stick a Kahler in there. You'll get better tone.
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post #14 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-08-2013, 05:52 PM
 
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Re: Keeping the LNG!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Takin' a Ride View Post
Well clearly Jems are barely 25 years old at this point and are still relatively easy to find, so I'm not currently seeing any real demand for them in rough or otherwise unplayable condition. Hang tags, warranty cards and other "case candy" definitely add significant value, but overall the guitars are judged almost entirely on appearance, the more mint the better. I will say that unless things like pickups are obviously changed, I don't see people asking about how original the wiring is.

Will it eventually become more like Fender and Gibson? Perhaps, especially as more and more guitars get into the hands of collectors and fewer end up up for sale.

I will point out that I don't believe there's anything special about the pots used in early Jems. They're exactly the same ones used in every RG, with the exception of the volume bleed circuit on the volume pot. A lot of the other hardware will give away an '87, but not the pots of the switch.
i dont know how true is it...but a guitar tech in my area told me that the pots used on older jem77 are different from nowadays jem..and its not the same with older RGs either...he told me not dispose the pots even after changing to other newer better pots...keep it in case i want to sell the jem in the future....well maybe a beaten up jem wont be as higher value as 1960s gibson or fender guitars...the more beaten up your jem the more lower the value...because jems are invented only in 87-90s era...
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post #15 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-08-2013, 07:24 PM
 
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Re: Keeping the LNG!

Quote:
Originally Posted by djanggo View Post
i dont know how true is it...but a guitar tech in my area told me that the pots used on older jem77 are different from nowadays jem..and its not the same with older RGs either...he told me not dispose the pots even after changing to other newer better pots...keep it in case i want to sell the jem in the future....well maybe a beaten up jem wont be as higher value as 1960s gibson or fender guitars...the more beaten up your jem the more lower the value...because jems are invented only in 87-90s era...
Today in 2013 a Jem is a highly prized used guitar. But in ten or twenty years they will bring in vintage CBS and pre-CBS prices. Right now at the used guitar store, which has otherwise inexpensive players guitars, has a beat up, refinished 1957 Duo Jet. It may not be great, but even then with original neck and tuners, original frets, original electronics and most original hardware, it goes for $900 dollars. Twenty years ago you couldn't give that thing away.

All older Fenders and Gibsons will get something these days, including '70s Fenders and Norlin Gibsons, and right now a few lawsuit era Ibanezes. A good lawsuit Ibanez will bring in several times original list price. The same will happen one day to the Jems and people will easily pay out ten grand for an original one.

And in time the Jems will have the same collectible value as some of those hard to find Ibanez lawsuit pieces. While the lawsuits got caught early thus lowering their production numbers, the popularity of the Jem will make them as hard to find as the lawsuit Ibanezes. I would still rather have an Ibanez L5 jazz box than any Jem but that's me. And the more original any old Ibanez, the higher the price a collector (usually non-player) will pay for it.

Keep the old pots if you replace the whole electronics harness. Even if it doesn't work, it greatly increases the value of that Jem for a collector. For 99% percent of the cases the collectors will have more money to part with than the musicians and be far more willing to spend that money.
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