New Direction - Jemsite
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-18-2005, 04:22 PM Thread Starter
 
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New Direction

Who likes or dislikes the direction that Ibanez is going with limited edition guitars. Are the prices to high, to low, or just right!
Josh
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-18-2005, 05:04 PM
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Re: New Direction

Well when I was a teen I always liked Ibanez. Good $ to what you got compared to other brands. It was like their idea was low cost good workmanship. Given they were trying to make name for themselves. Today they have strayed. Most production ones they have I would never buy. They seem to be gearing to one offs and limited. Being that most new players canít and mostly donít go right for the high-end they are stuck with a poor view. In all reason there is no reason why their price should be so different being that most of them are all production guitars. Ibanez is selling designer and fashionable guitars. They should look on bring back the power backstop, they should look to the player both low and advanced. They have simply lost touch with the ones who made them.
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-18-2005, 05:30 PM
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Re: New Direction

Building a name for themselves? They did that in the 70's when they were building better copies than Gibson and Fender were building originals. Even this year you can still buy a MIJ Prestige with a list price just under $1000. A few years ago that meant stores would advertise them at $650-700. What they've done is institue a MAP pricing guidline which keeps stores from undercutting each other in adverts. Stores can still sell for whatever price they want, they can only advertise a certian price though. This has led to higher prices paid, more power to the dealers as they finally get tp make a little more coin.

Along with the entry level MIJ you've also got a few more grades up to fancy woods. Unfortunately everything with a maple top for next year is going to feel a price gouge on list price, but that MIJ Prestige 1570 is still list priced just under $1000, so you can't say they've forgotten anyone.

Ibanez entered the "collectors" arena in the 80's just in case anybody missed it. Nothing new that prices on the specific collector models they release nudge their way up from year to year. Again, the dealers actually get to make some extra coin [but can sell for a loss if they really want to], the co. makes a little extra ching, the collector gets a more exclusive guitar for his collection. [since this thread was started from the JS2 thread]. Geez, and where did the direction of the company change from the 80's, 90's, now the new century? That direction has been long in place.....

If Fugijen is quitting the biz then the move to MIK might be more necessity than cost savings as we've all speculated. If they can keep production in Japan it certainly doesn't mean the product is going to be as good as Fugijen, although it might be better, it sure as hell might be worse. Yet we've all blasted them repeatedly for the upcoming move without knowing it may be their only viable option. [their best option IMO is to hire off the cream and form their own smaller factory and go in house for once, to dream]

Otherwise, the Yen is still killing the Dollar more and more every day. Complain about the prices but the JS2 is probably $2000 real dollars less than the 2KPLT was considerring how far the Yen has moved since 2000 [cough** the year Bush was elected** cough]
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-18-2005, 06:14 PM
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Re: New Direction

I knew of there 70's stuff but I speak as someone from the 80's when most people were playing Gibsons and Jacksons, god forbid Kramers =p Ibanez in that time was for us youg pups was looked at as a cheap Jap guitar. Remember, this is as it was to me and the airea I lived in.
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-18-2005, 06:32 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: New Direction

I agree with Rich, for the most part. But, I wouldn't rule out the MIK stuff, esp. for beginners. I know that most people on this board scream when I type that, but it's the truth. The area that I live in, I AM the Ibanez high end buyer. I sell at least 7 MIK Ibanez a month (pretty good considering only 60,000 people in my area), and to be honest, they are all really good guitars for the money. I have been buying Ibanez guitars since the 80's, and have been brand loyal since. Yes, I have seen bad ones (high end and low end), but by and large, the MIK stuff now, is equal to, if not better, then the low end ones of the 80's!

HDS - I don't think that they lost touch with the ones that put them on the map, WE just raised the bar, and they respond with things like the new JS2. The new MIK stuff is setting the bar for a new generation, so they can set their sights on the high end stuff of the future.
And, what's wrong with USA Kramer's!!

Remember that they are after a certain demographic with the new JS2, and that does not include every one. Rich and I will be happy, and we're the guys they are after!
Josh
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-18-2005, 06:51 PM
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Re: New Direction

Kramers always felt like cheap plastic to me =p
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-18-2005, 08:30 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: New Direction

I got a Sambora and a couple of Nightswan's that might change your mind, esp. if you like the chunkier Prestige necks!
Josh
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-18-2005, 09:37 PM
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Re: New Direction

For entry level I've got nothing against MIK, depending on how far down the line you go. If it's EPII a beginner should be fine [but better off with a fixed] but you get down into the uber crap trem lines like they've made in the past and a beginner is just going to get frustrated and quit. A floater is tough enough for a learning curve without being thrown the knuckleball those crap trems throw.
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-18-2005, 10:47 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: New Direction

The RG421 is one of my best sellers. For the beginners, I try to get them into a lower SA, SZ, DT, or IC, just because of the fixed bridges. Seem to have a lot of luck with those, for the exact same reason you stated above.
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-18-2005, 10:52 PM
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Re: New Direction

Yup, decent bang for the buck and if they quit it aint like you mortgaged the farm. The Chinese Artcore's give phenominal features for the price, although, you're still getting what you pay for at this time. The possibility of getting a decent guitar

But Ibanez forgot all about players on a budget.....
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-18-2005, 11:15 PM
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Re: New Direction

Quote:
Originally Posted by acoustic1991
Who likes or dislikes the direction that Ibanez is going with limited edition guitars. Are the prices to high, to low, or just right!
Josh
Prices are absurd for the MIJ axes based on an Ibanez heritage we know and loved from '87 thru the 90s. That "ibanez" is seemingly no more.

It has been replace by a mindet of removing locking studs to save a half a penny.

They'd rather upcharge $1k on a guitar 'cause they'd rather it sell less (while spending less in materials) and charge you more 'cause they know you will pay.

Collector Ibanez axes are not a problem & would be welcome IN ADDITION TO (BUT NOT REPLACING) the reasonably priced aforementioned models.

IMHO long term ibanez faces the potential branding problem of being a "junk guitar" company if they sell mostly junk. That is something that cannot be determined at this time... glen
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-19-2005, 07:32 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: New Direction

Glen -
Have the priced themselves out of line, or are they just keeping up with the current state of affairs in the guitar world? Under 2k for a MIJ guitar (with great craftsmanship, features ect.), or under 2k for a Fender strat? What's a better deal (to us Ibanez guys)? My point is they are staying in the game with everyone else, and that game is making money. Sad, but true.

The days of getting a new Jem for $1500 are long gone. But so are the days of getting a $800 USA Strat, $1000 USA Kramer, $1200 USA Jackson, ect. But the heritage is still there. Ask Fender, 50 years without any major renovations, and the #1 seller in the US. Talk about heritage and brand loyality!

Cost cutting, if we like it or not, is commonplace.

Supply and demand is the rule in business.

I didn't know that they discontinue models just to introduce a limited edition!! Did they discontinue the JS100???

Look at the stuff under $800 list. Maybe junk based on our high standards, but are really great instruments for what your paying. IMHO, the days of them being junk guitars ended around '86-'87!!

Rich - I agree on the Artcores. Maybe someday they'll match the MIK stuff and really be a good deal.

Josh
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-19-2005, 07:44 PM
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Re: New Direction

I understand your points but they are from an "ibanez fan" perspective rationalizing their horrendous moves.

Reality is that supply is high while demand is low. Ultra low.

So what they did was prey on ibanez-loyal buyers (ie. suckers with cash) and create an illusion of the reverse. Jeez if Rich stopped brokering, the entire JS collectable market would suffer a huge collapase, just as his purchases inflated prices. LOL. I have no interest either way, just stating the obvious.

The fact that run-of-the-mill RG3120 type axes are priced thru the roof for 2005 tells you that ibanez is simply taking advantage of it's customers... not trying finding new ones at the level of quality we expect. Because these have no chance of good retail sales or showroom inventory at that price.

Their new customers are for the "junk". They won't be getting new customers for $3100 plastic top jems or $5300 artificially limited edition JS axes. Sorry... glen
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-19-2005, 08:04 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: New Direction

Who said I was an Ibanez fan! LOL.

I base my opinions on what I have seen being on the other side of the counter for 10+ years. How is what they are doing, different then any other maker out there?????

Supply is high and demand is low?? If that were the case, they wouldn't have increased their prices in July!! They didn't do it to screw you over, or to give us fodder for the message board!!!

Now I'm a sucker with cash?? This is exactly why I started this thread!! LOL!
No, I want the new JS. You don't. You won't buy it. Fine. So are you a sucker without cash?? j/k! Rich would have to corner the market on JS's, but he can't because he doesn't have mine!!! LOL

Taking advantage is a gross overstatement. People will buy them. And the bigger markets will have them in stock, like always. And, only the gullible buy them for list!

You are right about the new customers not buying the BRCH or PRM, they are buying the RG321s. And the few of them that grow up to be like me will buy the limiteds when their time comes.

Josh
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-19-2005, 08:24 PM
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Re: New Direction

demand is low, all kidding aside... glen
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fender strat , fixed bridge , ibanez guitars , locking stud , locking studs , prestige necks , trem arm

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