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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-10-2005, 08:53 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NYC/Long Island
Posts: 437
new Jems and Buzz Feiten

Since Vai is now a big supporter of the Buzz Feiten tuning system, i was wondering if newer model Jems ship with BFTS installed?
Also, does anyone know how hard it is to get it installed on a Jem?
The way i understand it, it involves 2 things:

1-intonating and tuning the guitar using certain "offsets" that Buzz came up with
(the easy part)

and

2-getting a new nut installed (Buzz calls it a "shelf nut")
(this is the hard part)

I'm curious as how you would be able to put a new nut on a Jem (or any other guitar with a locking trem) without some kind of major surgery to the neck?
Thanks for any info,
peace
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-11-2005, 04:31 AM
dex
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 2,107
Re: new Jems and Buzz Feiten

The Feiten "system" is no system at all.
All you need is to file a bit of fretboard so you can move your nut 0.08mm (0.03") closer to the bridge. and then tune and intonate as folows

_______open___12th fret
E_______00______00
B______+01______00
G______-02_____+01
D______-02_____+01
A______-02______00
E______-02______00

Unless you are a seeyer - you won't be able to tell if this "system" has been installed and with Evo having a 3rd neck since the time Steve was suposed to be using this (1996) chancess are he is not using it anymore.

Things to keep in mind:
1. Attack and fretting will make 1-2 cents changes in pitch so this seems like very made up system
2. Unless you are playing clean - 1-2 cents will not be heard by anyone on the planet.
3. You can achieve similar results by tuning the strings to themselves and not to a tuner
4. You need a special and very precise tuner + an intonation tool to make sure this could be done at all.
5. On a floating trem guitar 1-2 cents offseting is the stupidest thing in the world as the attack, fretting and action will make 2 cents difference every time anyway.

I have absolutely no idea how this "system" got so big but it's nothing new.
Every decent acoustic/classical guitarist will tell you that they tune by ear and often tune slightly flat/sharp certain strings so some chords can ring truer.
Also there's the Earvana compensated nut............and fretwaive.

Bottom line is if you have ANY of these
1. Floating bridge
2. Electric guitar
3. 8's 9's or 10's
4. Any effects in the chain or even if the gain on your amp is engaged
5. Pick
6. Play only 2 or 3 string chords or pick single strings
7. Use vibrato to express your playing
8. You only hold down the chord when you are strumming (pressure On/Off in coordination with strumming)

or as it happens with most of us - most of these at the same time, any stretched (equaly tempered) tuning system is moot because there are too many other external influences.

So, unless you are an amazingly consistent acoustinc/classical guitar performer do not waste your time with these aftermarket systems, just get a $20 tuner, tune up and then as Zappa said - Shut up and play your guitar.

ilia
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-11-2005, 06:09 AM
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Belgium
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Re: new Jems and Buzz Feiten

Indeed, tune your guitar first with a tuner, to get the right absolute pitch and compensate with your ears. Very cool Zappa quote!
jemke is offline  
post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-11-2005, 01:27 PM
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 11
awesome thread

I had the feiten system put on my guitar. It is basically that. Playing in tune is so much technique... When my friend who is an awesome guitar player plays my guitar, I can hear him go out of tune because he hits the strings too hard. I suppose I have a sensitive hear and that is a pain because everytime I play I go crazy because no guitar is perfect all over the fretboard. The buzz feiten thing helps but technique is #1 here as well as learning to avoid sour intervals
fusionid is offline  
post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-11-2005, 07:44 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NYC/Long Island
Posts: 437
Re: new Jems and Buzz Feiten

Thanks for all the input!!!!!!!!!!!
I already own one guitar with the Feiten system (it came with it already installed), but i was just curious about the whole process of getting it put on a guitar that didn't have it.
And yes, i do hear a difference, but i do play a lot of clean chordal stuff.
peace
freedom's door is offline  
post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-11-2005, 07:56 PM
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 85
Re: new Jems and Buzz Feiten

I don't know if Ibanez has officially sanctioned the BF system so you cannot get it from the factory with it.

You can take any guitar to a BF tech and they will install it for you.

I've seen some ads in Japanese magazines where large chain shops like Ikebe have installed sustainers and the BF system on the 7vwh.
LLL777 is offline  
post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-11-2005, 09:06 PM
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 11
Thumbs up to clarify a final point

Dex,
I think the distance is .08 cm not mm

the quote below is from the buzzfeinten patent, as follows,

"...Hence, we have what we call the Rule of 2.1% (or 0.030" shorter than standard 1.4312"). The correct distance from the nut to the center of the first fret slot is 1.401" on an electric guitar with standard 251/2" scale. Standard guitars are manufactured using a mathematical formula called the Rule of 18 which is used to determine the position of the frets and the nut."

that is a difference is exactly .030 inches shorter or Centimeters: 0.0762

at any rate, your point is valid and I agree.
fusionid is offline  
post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-12-2005, 03:24 AM
dex
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 2,107
Re: new Jems and Buzz Feiten

Yeah .8mm - you are right..........and I grew up in a metric land but see what 10 years in an imperial measure country can do to you.

ilia
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-13-2005, 11:20 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 336
Re: new Jems and Buzz Feiten

Having never tried a BFTS, my argument doesn't have much of a leg to stand on, but it's extremely annoying when I tune the guitar well for an open E and/or G and then try to play the open A, gagging on the horribly out-of-tune G and B strings. Anything that can make that even a bit better is worth a shot. Even though it's a couple of cents difference between any two strings, perhaps the sum total of altered tunings across all the strings makes a bigger difference.

Like most players, I do my own version of a piano's tempered tuning (the G and B a little sharp, low E a little flat) to find a decent middle road. I have to do this on any guitar I play, whether it's an acoustic or a floating bridge Ibanez. So even though all the variables of an Edge-equipped Ibanez add a whole lot of slop anyway, I'm guessing the BFTS reduces the amount of slop you're starting with, making life better. Right now it's a choice between perfect sounding chords in only certain positions, or making all positions slightly flawed, and I get really sick of the latter sometimes.

I hear the Washburn high-end models all come with Feiten, I'd like to get my hands on one and see how much better it really makes things.
MehYam is offline  
post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-14-2005, 04:10 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NYC/Long Island
Posts: 437
Re: new Jems and Buzz Feiten

I definitely noticed a difference in the first position chords. Some may argue that a few cents won't make a noticable difference, but if you've been playing long enough (in my case, over 25 years), and you really pay attention to the details, i think you will definitely notice a difference.
If you get the BFTS though, make sure to get yourself a Peterson Strobostomp tuner for the most accurate tuning. It's expensive, but worth every penny.
peace
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-14-2005, 04:29 PM
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 848
Re: new Jems and Buzz Feiten

Thanks for explaining the BF system to me, Ilia.

Had a feeling that the whole thing was a waste of effort but couldn't prove it without the hard numbers. Now it all makes sense.
SalemB is offline  
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buzz feiten , buzz feiten tuning system , electric guitar , feiten system , feiten tuning system , intonation tool , peterson strobostomp , trem guitar , tuning system

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