price increase for jems? bs - Page 17 - Jemsite
Ibanez JEM, UV, JS & Other Signature Models For discussion of Ibanez JEM, Universe and JS (Satriani) guitars only.

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post #241 of 251 (permalink) Old 08-19-2004, 02:22 PM
RCB
 
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UCEW price range: $1499.95- $1549.95- $1699.95
UCGR: $1449.95 - $1599.95
American master (neck through): 1299-1599-1899

In the same years:
Jem77BFP and FP:1699-1799 (this were the higher end regular production jems)

Jem777DY: 1499-1599

So, Back then a high end neck through was the same or more than a Jem. And a jem listed for the same as a high end RG with similar features.
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post #242 of 251 (permalink) Old 08-19-2004, 02:29 PM
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The J customs are not available in the US. And even if you compare it to that my point is still correct. The truth still is that back in the ealy 90s, the jems offered a competitive value against a high end RG, now they dont.

Now, you can buy an RG3120 for 900 less than a jem. You dont need to buy the most expensive Jcustom available to match the jem quality. The 3120 is as good as a jem.
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post #243 of 251 (permalink) Old 08-19-2004, 02:39 PM
 
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RCB, I would argue that the Lion's claw, Monkey grip, and vine/pyramid inlays are nothing more than cosmetic variations and have EVERYTHING to do with hero worship and name association, and that is what you pay for as you say yourself. DiMarzio's are a nice upgrade, but I will never buy that the necks on the older Jems are any "better" finished than the RG550's were - they were simply a different profile, and that wasn't even always the case depending on model. Now we have the Prestige finished necks with "extra finishing steps" on the sig models, but that was not the case in the past. I see no difference in quality between the neck on my JS1000 with the Prestige neck and the neck on my JS6 or even any of my Radius guitars (please notice I said QUALITY-there are differences but not in terms of wood selection, sanding, finish, fretwork, inlays, etc. these = quality to me). As you point out, "back then" there was not such a huge price gap for similarly spec'd instruments, and that is where I see the Signature models losing their appeal to people like me who want the best instrument for my $$. I will not pay extra for "flash" (vines, grips, claws,etc..) if it doesn't make for a better playing/sounding instrument. And yes, I have played a few Jems over the last 17 years of being a certfied Ibanez freak.
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post #244 of 251 (permalink) Old 08-19-2004, 02:51 PM
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Well we partially agree (about the signatures loosing value and appeal over time). But the RG550 has a glossy clearcoated neck, and the 77FP or the 777DY or the UVs have an oiled (I dont know if its oiled, but they have a raw feel to them). Certainly not the same finish.

The vine has nothing to do with Vai, Ibanez had it in severl 70s guitars. The lion claw and the monkey grip is something that may appeat to you aesthetically even if you are not a Vai fan.

Quote:
will not pay extra for "flash" (vines, grips, claws,etc..) if it doesn't make for a better playing/sounding instrument
Thats fine, but there are people who care about how the instrument looks (im one of them ) and will pay for that. A 2A flamed top vs a 5A flamed is not going to make the guitar sound different. But there are people willing to pay much more for a guitar with a 5A top.

The sad thing is that, there is no longer an extra flash in the signature series.

The bottom line is that if you compare the jem to the high end RGs (with similar features and quality) back in the early 90s, they listed for about the same. Now you have huge differences in their pricing. Hence, the value of the jems has decreased a lot in comparisson. About this we both agree
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post #245 of 251 (permalink) Old 08-19-2004, 03:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCB
I have to disagree. I said several times that signature models offer very poor value in general. But an RG550 is no Jem.The Lion Claw, monkey grip pyramid or vine inlay arent going to make the guitar sound or play better, but if you like them you have to pay for them...

...if you compare the jem to the high end RGs (with similar features and quality) back in the early 90s, they listed for about the same

Now you're implying we were overpaying for RGs in the early 90s...
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post #246 of 251 (permalink) Old 08-19-2004, 03:09 PM
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Not at all. What RG are you talking about?

Regular RGs listed for a lot less, i think around 750-950
Higher end RG (USCG, UCEW, etc) listed for the prices I put above.
I think regular RGs (550/570/770 etc) were a good value for the money. The higher end RGs and the jems had a fair or reasonable value.

Now, since you can buy a high end RG3120 with thge same quality as a 7VWH and similar features (same finish on the neck, same quality of pups, Lion Claw and monkwey grip vs a translucent flamed maple top, etc), its har to jsutify paying almost 1000USD more for a 7VSBL or a 7VWH
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post #247 of 251 (permalink) Old 08-19-2004, 03:19 PM
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Nobody considers that some people just may not prefer mahogany bodied instruments.
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post #248 of 251 (permalink) Old 08-19-2004, 03:23 PM
 
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I just checked the current list on a new top o' the line Jem and all I can say is OUCH! This proves to me that they are strictly going for the die-hard Vai fan that may be at a point in his/her life where dropping that kind of cash is no problem. Face it, these guitars are not really intended for the average player who is seeking features and performance first and foremost (like me). For that kind of cash I can call Tom Anderson and choose body wood, neck profile, pickups, fret size, hardware, and select from a bunch of color options (and get a case too!!). C'mon, $2700 list and the case is extra with a Jem?? Plus, unless you buy it from Rich or a decent Mom and Pop (if any still exist), plan on having to shell out more $$ for a setup. This is getting to be insane pricing for a production line, bolt-on Japanese guitar with little if any after sale service or support available. Either that or they are artificially inflating the "list" price to give the impression of a better deal when discount (or blowout) time comes.
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post #249 of 251 (permalink) Old 08-19-2004, 03:31 PM
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Yes Rich, but thats a personal taste. We are comparing value among different guitars. You may like better the RG3120 even if they cost the same as a 7VWH, or you may prefer the 7VWH because its basswood. But baswood is not more expensive than mahogany.

Im not saying you have to be a moron to buy a 7VWH or VSBL. If you really like basswood over mahogany, or if ouy are in love with the looks of that model, hell go for it. Im just saying that the jem line offers a much poor value compared to the higher end RG than it used to offer in the early 90s.

I would pay much more for a PGM90 or a PGM10 (twice or more) than I would pay for a 301. I would pay MUCH MUCH more for a RGART ora JPM90 than what I would pay for a 3120. I will pay for certain guitars that offer a relatively poor value as instruments, just because I love the way the look, or because they are rare.
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post #250 of 251 (permalink) Old 08-19-2004, 03:32 PM
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post #251 of 251 (permalink) Old 08-19-2004, 03:43 PM
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sorry, alder.

Since I was replying to your point and I know you generally preffer basswood, I ve mistakenly refered to basswood.

The points stands though.
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