price increase for jems? bs - Page 3 - Jemsite
Ibanez JEM, UV, JS & Other Signature Models For discussion of Ibanez JEM, Universe and JS (Satriani) guitars only.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #31 of 251 (permalink) Old 07-27-2004, 11:42 PM
Vendor
 
Rich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 25,523
Has anybody ever seen an AR3000 hanging on the rack anywhere?!
Rich is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 251 (permalink) Old 07-27-2004, 11:45 PM
UV
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Staten Island NY
Posts: 51
Maybe if they put Jack White's name on a Jem they would sell a few more.

U
v
UV is offline  
post #33 of 251 (permalink) Old 07-27-2004, 11:47 PM
site founder 0% owner
 
jemsite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: NJ - USA
Posts: 11,475
Reviews: 1
to recap...

JEM (and Ibanez signature model) sales are limited by core-audience of the endorser.

Pricy MIJ Ibanez guitar sales are limited by ongoing Ibanez corporate stupidity... glen
jemsite is offline  
post #34 of 251 (permalink) Old 07-27-2004, 11:55 PM
UV
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Staten Island NY
Posts: 51
Seriously, there is a saturation point for all artist models. How many Zakk Wylde LPs does Gibson sell? Peavey and EVH have parted ways because of poor sales. If there is no new artist interest, sales will remain stale. A 10 percent price increase or decrease isn't going to matter at this point. If I want a Vwh another 100 dollars won't keep me from buying one. If I don't want one a deeper discount won't make me buy it either. There is a limited market for these guitars. It's that simple. The truth is it's up to Vai to sell them too.
New listeners bring more potential sales.

U
v
UV is offline  
post #35 of 251 (permalink) Old 07-28-2004, 12:00 AM
UV
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Staten Island NY
Posts: 51
Maybe a survey is in order. How many non Vai fans play Jems?

U
v
UV is offline  
post #36 of 251 (permalink) Old 07-28-2004, 12:02 AM
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Tucson AZ USA
Posts: 450
UV,
I would have to disagree with you about the $100 not making any difference. For some one looking to a guitar, when they see the Jem's price getting closer to $2000 that will be a huge turn off. If they were comparing two guitar that' were close to the same price, and then one goes up $100, the other guitar will look a whole lot better. I understand what your saying about if someone really wants a Jem they will pay the extra $100 bucks. But that's only if they want a Jem for novelties sake. If a guitar player wants a guitar that meets his needs, $100 is a big difference.
Given to Fly is offline  
post #37 of 251 (permalink) Old 07-28-2004, 12:09 AM
UV
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Staten Island NY
Posts: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Given to Fly
UV,
I would have to disagree with you about the $100 not making any difference. For some one looking to a guitar, when they see the Jem's price getting closer to $2000 that will be a huge turn off. If they were comparing two guitar that' were close to the same price, and then one goes up $100, the other guitar will look a whole lot better. I understand what your saying about if someone really wants a Jem they will pay the extra $100 bucks. But that's only if they want a Jem for novelties sake. If a guitar player wants a guitar that meets his needs, $100 is a big difference.
What I was getting at was that at 1800 or 1900 bucks the difference is a lot smaller than a 500 dollar guitar having a hundred dollar increase. Most that can afford 1800 would come up with the extra dollars if the Jem is what the have their heart set on. The manufacturers know this.

U
v
UV is offline  
post #38 of 251 (permalink) Old 07-28-2004, 01:00 AM
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Tucson AZ USA
Posts: 450
Yeah I see your point.
Given to Fly is offline  
post #39 of 251 (permalink) Old 07-28-2004, 07:50 AM
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Nr. Liverpool, UK
Posts: 868
Is the price increase planned for all countries are are they just taking up the US price to match the rest of the world a little better?

Current price for a Jem in the UK...about 1600, which is around $2,900 US.
Jammy is offline  
post #40 of 251 (permalink) Old 07-28-2004, 09:02 AM
UV
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Staten Island NY
Posts: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammy
Is the price increase planned for all countries are are they just taking up the US price to match the rest of the world a little better?

Current price for a Jem in the UK...about 1600, which is around $2,900 US.
That probably has more to do with taxes than the factory wholesale price.

U
v
UV is offline  
post #41 of 251 (permalink) Old 07-28-2004, 11:08 AM
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Nr. Liverpool, UK
Posts: 868
Taxes into the UK are 22.5% of insured value, so if you guys can buy jems at $1800, that means import taxes of $405. Making a grand total of, $2200 (for arguments sake) which = 1200, 400 is still going somewhere?
Jammy is offline  
post #42 of 251 (permalink) Old 07-28-2004, 11:14 AM
RCB
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Argentina
Posts: 1,635
I think both Glen and Rich have valid points in this discussion.

The evolution of the yen may hurt Ibanez profits (but not that much, it went from an average of around 120-125 to 110, the peaks and the lows arent really representative), and if you take a wider range of time, it hasnt move at all. You also have to take in account other factors such as interest rates evolution and the financial structure of Ibanez if you want to know if these changes in financial markets condition affect them positively or negatively. You have derivative market that big companies such as Ibanez use extensively. So the may be making a bigger profit out of this market conditions. So this argument MAY be valid.

The point Glen makes, about getting a poor value out of the jems, is beyond debate. I really cant understand how on earth sombedy would pay so much more for a signature instrument, when you can buy a Prestige in a closeout for half the price, or less.

The profit margins on signature guitars are huge, so they could afford to maintain the prices. But they can choose no to do so, wich in fact they did.

Ibanez really dont seem to care that much about the signature series guitars. These can be seen not only in a poor marketing policie, but on the designs an develpement also. The signature series has gone down the toilet. Same (or very similar) uninspired models, lack of options, etc, etc, etc. I think Rich and Glen both agree with this.

You may say its because of the lack of demand...... well, increasing prices and changing mos of the production to Korea will hurt the demand for these guitars even more (even if the signature series is, at least for a couple o years, still going to be MIJ). Hence, we can expect even fewer models and options.

With the shift of production to Korea of most MIJ models we may see a huge change in Ibanez marketing strategies.

One last question.... did the prices increase in yens or did Ibanez maintain the domestic prices?
RCB is offline  
post #43 of 251 (permalink) Old 07-28-2004, 12:39 PM
Vendor
 
Rich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 25,523
I haven't paid much attention to what the Jp prices were so I'm not sure if they changed or not. But I do disagree on the Yen. I used to get 128-132 3 years ago and the 3 transfers i've done this year were at 108, 105, and 2 weeks ago 104, steadily dropping still.
Rich is offline  
post #44 of 251 (permalink) Old 07-28-2004, 12:45 PM
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Bellport Village - LI, NY
Posts: 659
Everyone, especially Glen and Rich, made some great points. I'd like to throw some in also. (well, I don't know how 'great' they are - I don't know everything).

The bad judgement on Ibanez's part is that in an effort to maintain or increase profits, all they are doing is raising prices. This is not always the answer.

Basically, Ibanez needs to draw more attention to the line. That's going to involve one or both of these things: they should do a bit more to promote the Jem and/or diversify the line a bit (or change it up more frequently)

Yep, we're talking the old cliche: spending money to make money. However:

Advertising doesn't only come in the form of magazine ads and store displays. Ibanez should offer more swag. It would be great if they had swag specific to a model or series. But - they could just simply feature a model, part of a model, or it's profile in an image used on a promo product. At one point - the Jem was the flagship model and in a way, it still is 'somewhat' but the body is so recognizable still. For example, Ibanez could sell shirts with their logo superimposed over a sleek body shot of a Jem (or even another model. It's somewhat similar to when Ibanez used the swirls as a trademark 10 years ago for their logo colors, on shirts, and straps. Anyway - enthusiasts buy this kinda stuff! No, the market isn't and isn't likely going to be what it was between 1987 and 1993, but letting the public get a better idea of what's out there is going to turn over a profit more quickly than not investing into that at all.

The other situation to consider is that a lot of stores don't know how to sell this guitar properly. The general mindset, especially in the US, is that guitars that are made overseas have no business being in the same price bracket of American guitars. This is nonsense but it's how a lot older players have trained the newer players to think. So, some stores just don't know how to sell a relatively expensive Japanese "Floyd Rose" type of guitar. They don't want to devote the space or inventory for it. the salespeople (especially the really young ones) don't necessarily know spicifically what type of customer they should try and sell this to. The other side of this coin s that the only people that typically know or found out about Jems are those who are enthusiasts of either Steve Vai or this class of guitar. Basically, there hasn't been much actively done to draw a new market or additional attention to the JEM line, It's like Ibanez only acknowledges this sales of this guitar as a self-sustaining.

It's difficult to compare a Steve Vai model to an EVH model. They are both in such an elite class of players however EVH has managed to stay familiar to a wider group of people. Van Halen has maintained a loyal fanbase since the late 1970's and despite all the craziness the past several years, they've still remained relatively commercially successful and familar to many people outside their fanbase. Steve Vai on the otherhand has not been with any (commercially very successful) legendary band or artist long enough for the average person to associate him with them. More people who are not seriously devoted fans or players themselves, are most likely going to recognize EVH's name as a guitarist before they will Steve Vai's. C'mon, a lot of people who have heard of SSV can't even say or even spell his last name correctly.

You also have to consider what Ibanez is willing to do (or not do) to keep prices down, or even reduce them. In most cases - quality suffers. Offering a lower-priced version may entice more dealers to stock a signature guitar but it could ruin the reputation of the others in the line. If a cheaper model also happens to be cheaper in quality - it still may be very noticeable - even if a new potential customer has never tried another JEM before. If it's a bad impression - that may also be the first impression of the line. Unfortunately, consumers on a large scale are not open minded enough to go past their first impressions especially the lesser-experienced ones. Also, the fans that want to buy the same guitar as their heroes are going to want to buy something that, at least, very closely resembles, the artist's actual guitar whether it's the same model or a lesser expensive model that looks very similar. There is the other tyoe of customer that gets very turned off when the artist won't even use the models in the stores (prototypes and experimental models are excluded from this statement).

OK, I've participated on this site for about 6 years and I've worked in music retail and with musical instrument companies collectively for over 7 years. Played since I was 11. I have a lot of opinions but I better stop here befor you either fall asleep or lose your eyesight. Sorry to draw this out but I couldn't help myself.

Mike 777 Haug
mike777 is offline  
post #45 of 251 (permalink) Old 07-28-2004, 12:51 PM
RCB
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Argentina
Posts: 1,635
Well, I dont trade yens, but nontheless, you can make a sh**load of money from that, or at least hedge your risk. There is no reason to asume that Ibanez doesnt hedge this risks. Im not saying they do, Im saying they are prefectly able of doing so.
RCB is offline  
Reply

Tags
acoustic guitar , andy timmons , beautiful guitar , block inlays , body shape , brian moore , charvel evh , chrome hardware , chrome jem , cosmo hardware , crystal planet , custom guitar , custom shop , darren wilson , double cutaway , ebmm jpm , ebony fingerboard , electric guitar , equipped guitar , ernie ball , fixed bridge , flamed maple , floyd rose , fret size , george benson , gibson les paul , gibson les paul custom , gibson les paul studio , guitar mag , guitar shop , hoshino gakki , ibanez bass , ibanez catalog , ibanez dealer , ibanez guitars , ibanez jem , les paul , les paul custom , les paul standard , les paul studio , les pauls , local guitar shop , locking nut , locking stud , locking studs , locking tuners , marty friedman , mij guitars , monkey grip , neck scale , neck thru , neck thru body , paul gilbert , paul stanley , production model , pyramid inlay , pyramid inlays , sam ash , shred guitars , signature guitar , steve vai , swamp ash , trem guitar , van halen , vinnie moore , whammy bars , zakk wylde

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Jemsite forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address

IMPORTANT: You will be required to activate your account so please ensure that your email address is correct.

If you do not receive your activation check your spam folder before using the CONTACT US form (at the bottom right of each page).



Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mesa Mark V Head In Stock - Beat The Price Increase! mattsmusic Classified Ads: Guitars and Gear 0 11-24-2010 03:37 PM
Mesa Boogie PRICE INCREASE Coming 12/1 mattsmusic Classified Ads: Guitars and Gear 4 11-19-2010 12:09 PM
will the js2000 price increase? RG3120 Ibanez JEM, UV, JS & Other Signature Models 18 07-16-2005 01:45 PM
2001 price increase - What's the deal!? AH! YngVaiTriani Ibanez JEM, UV, JS & Other Signature Models 26 10-04-2001 06:41 PM
EBMM JPM price increase - Base price raised $170 Rich All Other Guitars (including Prestige) 48 08-21-2001 03:38 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome