questions about the JEM 777 Edge Backstop experience - Jemsite
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-08-2017, 11:34 PM Thread Starter
 
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Question questions about the JEM 777 Edge Backstop experience

I have been having a mental dilemma with my future acquisition of my first MIJ JEM. I got a RG655CBM and a RG752GK they are very nice guitars but I have been using them less and less since I got hard tail guitar (PRS). I like playing with the Edge trem, but setting it up is a pain, and every time I max out the fine tuners I dread going over tuning and fine tuning the RGs... so lately I barely touch them. I find that I spend more time tuning than playing when using the RGs, to the point I am even thinking on selling them.

Maybe I abuse the trem to much or bend to hard... IDK... Maybe this is just how it is, I am just returning to playing guitar after a lot of years and I never had a real Edge trem instrument before. But on the hard tail guitar I don't need to tune often, it keeps in tune for days. On the RGs I have changed strings, stretched them and even changed brands but I can get maybe 30 minutes of fun before having to re-tune it.

My question is... Is the JEM 777 30th experience really that different from a RG655? The question is especially for you guys that got the JEM 777 30th with the backstop or have one installed on your JEM/RG, does that makes your tuning more stable and prevents you from having to be tuning in cycles because all the tension on the strings changes every time to tune or fine tune a string?
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-09-2017, 12:10 AM
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Re: questions about the JEM 777 Edge Backstop experience

If you're detuning like that you're problem is you are not fully stretching the strings. Floaters are more of a pain but you should be able to play hard for 1/2 hour and barely have to fine tune a couple strings.
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-09-2017, 01:14 AM
 
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Re: questions about the JEM 777 Edge Backstop experience

Yeah, something is wrong in your setup or strings (or perhaps trem springs). I have an RG655 and a JEM 30th. Both stay in excellent tune, even after an hour of playing.

On rare occasions I will have to unlock the nut and reset the fine tuners to give me runway to tune tighter.
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-09-2017, 02:49 AM
 
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Re: questions about the JEM 777 Edge Backstop experience

What Rich and The TPS said

To add to the data :

I have several ibbies with all sorts of edge trems in them.

I do abuse the trem, and to tell the truth, of those that had a proper setup, none really goes out of tune. Out of those that I learned to setup myself, they did go out of tune a lot at first.

So, imho, since you like your guitars, treat yourself to a proper setup. Find a good guitar tech. Then you'll need a few adjustments here and there of course. After a short while they'll pretty much stay in tune.

If you feel so inclined, try doing a proper setup yourself before giving your guitar to the guitar tech, to get the hang of it. The first time I did a setup, I think it took me the best part of a day and it drove me mad. But now it's much quicker and much more efficient. No way around practice.
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-09-2017, 10:05 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: questions about the JEM 777 Edge Backstop experience

So I decided to retry stretching the strings on the RG 655. Once I pulled on the D string the damn saddle moved completely to the front... I also noticed that a buzzing sound I was hearing when playing the E string was coming from one of the tuner heads being lose too. lol I guess this guitar need to have every little screw and bolt tighten. I will try to do the setup myself. This is going to be lots of work... specially with the saddle moving I guess it means the guitar intonation when down the drain... This is going to be a long Sunday.
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-09-2017, 11:08 AM
 
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Re: questions about the JEM 777 Edge Backstop experience

Please go to the tech section at IbanezRules.com. Will explain exactly how to set-up your guitar. If properly set-up, it will stay in tune very well. I can play one of mine for hours, case it, and get it back out again after a month and it will still be in tune. Once you get the hang of it, it will take far less time and work great. One big thing I have found over the years is the nut and pads. Make sure the pads are facing the right direction and make sure the angle of the strings on the back side of the nut is correct by adjusting the string tree. That and your trem angle needs to be correct. Those are the top 2 most important adjustments.
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-09-2017, 12:25 PM
 
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Re: questions about the JEM 777 Edge Backstop experience

I removed the backstop on my two 30'eis. Taking the time do a little string stretching and be very accurate with the tuning before locking the nut is time well spent.

Do you tune by ear or use a tuner? It you just use your ear, you can easily get into a pattern where you find a sharp string, flatten it, making the other strings a little sharp, flattening them, and end up maxing out the fine tuners.

Also check that you nut locking plates are placed correctly. The raised edge on the plates must be parallel to the strings to achieve the best locking. (If they are perpendicular to the strings, the smallest string may get poor locking)
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-09-2017, 08:11 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: questions about the JEM 777 Edge Backstop experience

I took the opportunity to change my string gauge to .010s. The restring and Trem angle setup took a couple of hrs but it looks like its the correct angle and the action seems perfect. However, I have not had time to work on intonation yet. This is taking a lot of patience and time. I am going over Rich's website and trying to follow it to heart.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phantomblot View Post
I removed the backstop on my two 30'eis.
Why would you remove it, does it hinder your usage of the trem in anyway? I understood it only made it more stable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phantomblot View Post
Do you tune by ear or use a tuner?
I tune with a tuner.
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-09-2017, 08:16 PM
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Re: questions about the JEM 777 Edge Backstop experience

If you're used to using a Backstop they're fine but if you're not they greatly affect the feel and a correctly setup trem will not gain anything by using one.
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-10-2017, 02:21 AM
 
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Re: questions about the JEM 777 Edge Backstop experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by algorithmsjoe View Post
Why would you remove it, does it hinder your usage of the trem in anyway? I understood it only made it more stable.
I makes the tremolo feel strange to me, and it dampened the fluttering sound.

Could be that it was adjusted poorly or that I was unable to understand how to adjust it correctly though.

The guitar works just as I want it to without it, so really felt I didn't need one more thing to adjust. The guitar holds tuning very well. On the other hand, I dont do much Jack Butler impression in my own living room :-)
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-10-2017, 07:33 AM
 
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Re: questions about the JEM 777 Edge Backstop experience

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Originally Posted by Rich View Post
If you're used to using a Backstop they're fine but if you're not they greatly affect the feel and a correctly setup trem will not gain anything by using one.
The way I explain a Backstop is that it's somewhere between a fully floating trem and a flat mounted trem like an EVH. With the EVH you can really crank the springs and have the trem move much less on bends. You can achieve a partial effect like that with the Backstop. Not as stable as a flat mounted Floyd but less trem movement than a full floater.

Again, comes back to if you like the feel or not and if you want to use flutter effects with the trem.
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-17-2017, 03:08 AM
 
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Re: questions about the JEM 777 Edge Backstop experience

Who in their right mind would max out the fine tuners?! I have used locking tremolos since 1994 and strictly use the fine tuners for...yes, fine tuning. Isn't the name self explanatory? You tune your guitar with the tuners on the headstock, and only use the fine tuners for very minimal adjustments, after everything has been locked in the nut.

In this case it's user error; don't blame the guitar.
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-17-2017, 03:13 AM
 
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Re: questions about the JEM 777 Edge Backstop experience

Dude definitely got issues. Man, you have to tune your guitar every 30 minutes?

Look man, even the German-made original Floyd and Ibanez Edge go slightly out of tune after crazy pull up or dive bomb, but it's not that you are able to detect it with your ears (unless you are Nigel Tuffnel).

And you know what, actually you can turn everything to the original state by doing the reverse; I am speaking from my own experience.
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-02-2017, 09:41 AM
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Re: questions about the JEM 777 Edge Backstop experience

I had an Ibanez a backstop and I found that I had to really adjust my mental expectation for how that trem felt. It wasn't bad, it wasn't better it's just very different. I prefer no backstop but properly setup it has benefits if you want them.
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-17-2017, 10:20 PM
 
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Re: questions about the JEM 777 Edge Backstop experience

When I first bought my 94 Jem I only had to tune it when I change strings, no matter how crazy I was on the trem arm (and I snapped the arm once with it, to give you an idea). These days the stability isn't that good, up/down has a very slight bias where it will go sharp/flat, but that sharp/flat is always consistent. So if I do a divebomb and then tune and lock + fine tune it will 100% be in tune after pushing the trem down even if it goes very slightly sharp on pull up... Which means in terms of tuning it I very rarely have to touch anything, the knife edges are just worn to the point where there is a slight bias in the return point based on up/down trem usage, so if you tune it after pushing it down it will always return to tune after a pushdown.

If you're having to tune your guitar often then there is something wrong. I had it on one guitar once driving me nuts and I had just not tightened the string nuts enough causing minor movement, sometimes old strings are the problem, sometimes the seating of the bridge or the posts can be off. But under normal circumstances a good condition bridge should almost never need to be tuned regardless of how hard you go with it, and that's even the case with the cheaper "Floyd Rose II" on my Strat, which has had years of abuse too (99 model).

I'm still waiting on my 777 to arrive and haven't tried the backstop, but my 7V has a Tremol'no inside it and it causes no issues.
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