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They removed all the MIJ jem to force people into PIA

20K views 55 replies 21 participants last post by  rawmatz1 
#1 ·
Think about it. It has to be the dumbest move in history. And of course, it was Steve Vai's idea. They discontinued all the $3000 MIJ jems and now the only way to get a new MIJ jem is to buy a $3500 flamboyant PIA model. Maybe you can get the $3000 discontinued one from some dealers who still have them but is over. The worst part, now that they are discontinued, they are going to be overpriced by all these people who think they own a 1960 strat lol

They kept all the premium jems and jem JR lol those guitars suck, the premium are overpriced for what they are. Some of them are $1600, made in Indonesia, and have a poor trem system.

but I guess that's how they make most of their money, is what the fans buy the most since they can't afford the MIJ ones.

The 30th anniversary maple ones are already $4000-5000 on ebay and reverb for the most part and these are only 3-year-old guitars.

and worse the people who buy into these prices, all they do is make things worse. They could price a new jem for $5000 and people will buy it.

Steve himself said in one of his livestreams that he could literally stop touring and making albums and do perfectly fine off the jem royalties, think about that
 
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#2 ·
The PIA is a better playing guitar in many respects.

But I digress. Yes, is a shame that they are moving so much production out of Japan. The Indo guitars are nowhere near the same quality.

That said, a lot of the JEM allure has been to collectors versus players. So you need to keep limits on the product, which they never fail to do.

JEMS have never been about making the best guitars for the masses. Otherwise we'd see a $2,299 JEM with stainless steel frets, AANJ and multiple cool colors readily available.
 
#3 ·
Dumbest move? I'd sell 1 VWH / year. The only thing that was dumb was not having fresh Japanese offerings instead of building them all in Indo. But it is a business and that's where the price point sales were. I'd sell 1 VWH but I'd sell 10 BFP's, do the math. The VWH was the only Japanese JEM left so that you're complaining now is several years too late. The fact is, I like the PIA, it's fresh, and it's a nice change. And it's built in Japan. I fully expect Indo models soon, as I expect at some point they'll build another JEM in Japan. But this is the way it is. Buy, don't buy, always your choice.
 
#4 ·
I don't like the PIA, to me it's like a caricature of the JEM. The hard outline has been softened , the grip has been feminized, the vine has been altered so that it's lost its uniformity and now looks unbalanced. In fact the PIA has actually made me look towards other guitars and other brands.

BUT...

I see why some folks might like the scoop on the back of the lower horn, I think it's not orientated correctly to work, I get that a lot of people need stainless steel frets. I love the new colours, they're brilliant.

The main brilliance comes from what Rich said though, arguably the best Ibanez dealer in the world sells one of Ibanez's flagship guitar a year, because it's 25 years old and whilst there have been subtle changes (fretboard width, fretboard material and three different bridges) realistically, it's hardly changed at all in that time.

The Japanese JEM needed a refresh. I just don't think it needed THIS refresh, but time (and sales) will tell us if this was a clever move or not.
 
#17 ·
I don't like the PIA, to me it's like a caricature of the JEM. The hard outline has been softened , the grip has been feminized, the vine has been altered so that it's lost its uniformity and now looks unbalanced. In fact the PIA has actually made me look towards other guitars and other brands.
"Feminine" is the only word I can think of for the PIAs. They look TERRIBLE to me.
 
#5 ·
The whites, aren't flying. The colors went fast, they are nice color choices although I didn't like the mix of colors on the vine like I do the white. Do an FP3 I'd have sold 30 of them if they looked good. It will either take a while for those to dig it enough to buy, or it'll stay a niche model. I do love the new contouring though.
 
#7 ·
I've got 5 MIJ Ibanez now..
I think an FP3 is about the only thing likely to tempt me to buy another new one. Otherwise it's mostly swapping in/out in the 2nd hand market for me.

A lighter coloured FP3, maybe a Japanese cherry blossom theme, with maple neck.
With the stainless steel frets from the Pia and the contouring would probably have me preordering...
Otherwise I'm probably just gonna customize my own from a 2nd hand Jem505...
 
#8 ·
The Indonesian 7V has the same bridge and same pickups as the Japanese, so what's stopping you?

And don't get me wrong I prefer the Jem to the PIA aesthetically, but with the PIA having stainless steel frets it's a big step up. I hope they do add another MIJ Jem, but if it doesn't have SS frets I won't even consider buying it at that price point. It seems they weren't selling many MIJ 7V's anymore, and it also seems the demand for the PIA is pretty high so from that point of view Ibanez made a good business choice. Now as for the 30th Anniversary 777 models, they are collectors editions and only a limited run, what do you expect?

I own a 777, I ordered it in early 2017 to avoid disappointment, but the price has only gone up about £300 from what I paid new, if you shop about. Hardly a big complaint for a low production collectors guitar.
 
#10 · (Edited)
If you saw the state on my Jem 777 frets already after 3 years, you'd get it. They are all flat topped and I have divets in several places. The frets aren't large to begin with so I'm reluctant to do a levelling yet and after one levelling the next step is probably a refret, I feel pretty down about it actually. Once I took delivery of my SS fret Suhr and had my 7V repaired and refretted with SS I can't go back, at least not if I'm paying big money for a guitar. The difference is with SS frets I can play my guitar all day every day and not have to worry about fret levels or refrets.

I play my guitars every day, often for several hours and pre Covid (and hopefully post Covid) made my living that way, so I do put a lot of mileage on them. Lately I tend to play my 777 less than I'd like, just to save the frets.
 
#11 ·
Ahh, see I don’t make my living playing guitar and when I actually get the chance to play for an extended period of time, I’ll probably use 4 or 5 guitars for a half hour each.

I’ve been working from home since March and my music room is now my office, but I have a half dozen guitars out and grab whichever one takes my fancy when I have 10 minutes.

I’m not at the stage of, “I broke a string, I need a new guitar” but it’s nice to have options ;)
 
#12 ·
Ahh, see I don't make my living playing guitar and when I actually get the chance to play for an extended period of time, I'll probably use 4 or 5 guitars for a half hour each.

I've been working from home since March and my music room is now my office, but I have a half dozen guitars out and grab whichever one takes my fancy when I have 10 minutes.

I'm not at the stage of, "I broke a string, I need a new guitar" but it's nice to have options ;)
Yeah I've actually bought 3 new guitars since the 30th 777 so I have a lot of freedom to switch now too. There was a period where I played it everyday at home and then the period where my 7V neck split in half last year and I swapped to the 30th as my gigging instrument, so it's had a pretty hard life for a 3 year old guitar. I did recently refret my 70s P-Bass and opted for nickel frets for the sake of originality, but I barely play that thing and it's more a family heirloom (my dads guitar he played during the late 70s and 80s). I just bought the EVH frankie which also has nickel frets, but I was able to set that aside as it's only about 1/3 of what I paid for the Suhr or the Jem 777.

I ever buy another guitar in that price range I just want the peace of mind that if I wanted play it for 5 hours a day I can do that without worrying about fret wear. For that reason the step they have made with the PIA is big for me, I just don't like the way it looks and that price hike is massive, it's competing with Custom Suhr's and other high end stuff. If the right one comes along though, I am susceptible to impulse buys.
 
#13 ·
My 77FP was my main gigging guitar for years too.

It's on that point of fret dress vs refret too. I don't think I'll ever sell that guitar. So I'll probably go SS refret one day without worrying about the impact on resale value.

Agree that if dropping £3k+ on a new instrument whether to refret is not a decision I want to be forced into making too soon after buying it.

The frets on my JS1000 that's been my everyday guitar during lockdown are showing a few scars already...
 
#16 ·
I kinda get it. I'm hoping the BFP is an indicator of the approach they plan to take with the Indo jem line.

There's only so many "limited run" models they can churn out and still make sales, so they need an outlet for production run reissues that won't eat into the high end market. If their next move isn't an Indonesian swirl of some kind, Ibanez need to fire their marketing guys.

I might have this backwards, but I can see a MIJ FP reissue coming for the high end and like I said, a swirl for the Indonesian line (which, I'm not gonna lie, I'll be all over).
 
#18 · (Edited)
For me, I only ended up playing JEM's exclusively as I had been collecting top end guitars from every brand I could for about a decade. However, I had been avoiding Ibanez cuz every player in my area was using RG's. My first Ibanez was a 2005 Jem 7vwh that I bought brand new, and when I first played it, it was a game changer for me as the neck was the most perfect fit for me that I'd ever come across. And I love the frets....perfect size for me. Just everything about it was exactly what I'd been longing for. I went on to buy a 77vbk with the same neck, a 2007. Next, a 77brmr, a 2007, same neck. I then went through 5 RG's, but just preferred the slightly thicker Jem neck especially past the 12th fret where the wizards felt too thin somehow. Fast forward 15 years and I've got two Jem 7vwh's, two 77vbk's, and two 77brmr's.....all J Craft and all 2005 - 2007 models (the neck I fell for). The second guitar of each model I bought used (same years as the first ones) and they are now my "player " guitars that I gig with and play the hell out of outside of my house (well pre Covid, anyway). I also have a 2002 7vsbl that is pristine (different neck feel by a bit but still awesome) and only used around the house. All of my other guitars, except a 1996 Les Paul that has sentimental value, are gone. For me, I've been out of the guitar market.....I just want to pick up a guitar that has that same exact feel that I'm so at home on every time I play. Kinda like my amps....my 2 trusty old Soldano SLO's are all I plug into besides my little practice amps around the house. I guess I'm boring that way, but I feel it helps me to always play my best and develop my style :)
 
#20 ·
I'm not a fan of the look of the PIA, but if he wasn't going to ever change the Jem line from the single 7VWH something had to give, was going to give. I am also hard in the "a good looking FP3 would have gotten my money" camp, but I don't think Steve really cares about those anymore. I mean really, how many FPs has he painted white at this stage?

Like Jono, I have half a dozen guitars in easy reach when I get a break where I can sit and play, and I choose whichever one strikes my fancy, and that could be anything from a tele to a hollow body with the Jem somewhere in the middle. The Jem 7VWH is still a miraculous guitar in my opinion, but pretty much everyone who wanted one and could afford one has one at this point. It was time for something new, and we got what we got.
 
#21 ·
The Jem 7VWH is still a miraculous guitar in my opinion, but pretty much everyone who wanted one and could afford one has one at this point.
ALMOST everyone... :devil:

I have yet to find one to try in my area. I absolutely love the look, and from what I read about the neck it would be perfect for me... not too thin and not too thick. Unfortunately (not really), lately I've been playing mostly my Takamine acoustic with old western trail songs. Trying to learn to sing and play at the same time... ugh! Really would rather get a nylon string classical style.

Someday a 7VWH will be mine though!
 
#22 ·
everyone and their mother has that white MIJ jem, it has no appeal or coolness factor anymore

The only reason people want the PIA is that is something different, but the sale won't be good enough, you'll see it happen, the price has a lot to do with it, and the fact that the design is flamboyant

they pretty much ruined the whole jem line, but serves them right for making those prices for so long, maybe is the only way these things will come down
 
#23 ·
everyone and their mother has that white MIJ jem, it has no appeal or coolness factor anymore

The only reason people want the PIA is that is something different, but the sale won't be good enough, you'll see it happen, the price has a lot to do with it, and the fact that the design is flamboyant

they pretty much ruined the whole jem line, but serves them right for making those prices for so long, maybe is the only way these things will come down
I still think the 7VWH is cool, but I'm old, so what the hell do I know ;)

The price is the same as a Suhr Modern, arguably the next logical competitor for someone who is happy to spend that sort of amount on a superstrat. I don't think the price has anything to do with sales really, it's more to do with the fact that Steve Vai isn't the coolest kid on the block anymore, he's not pushing the boundaries and has nothing left to prove. I'm not saying he's coasting, but Passion and Warfare hasn't been topped in 30 years...

The PIA however has everything to prove.
 
#34 ·
I don't think the Jem looks masculine, we occasionally play with this girl (vocalist) who looks like a Disney princess, and infact she's obsessed with the whole Disney thing. She's the most stereotypically feminine person I know and she was the first female to acknowledge and comment on how "pretty" my 7V was. I don't think there is anything manly about a Jem, but it's a cool looking guitar either way. And sure the PIA is even more feminine. I don't get the point of this thread though, it comes across that you're just bitter about Jems being expensive.

Lots of other high end guitars are expensive, but you don't need to own them to have a good guitar, they sell because there is a demand.
 
#37 ·
Funny to me reading this stuff ,,OP just sounded bitter about the price,,I’m sure he wants one really bad ,,,PIA is awesome and pretty. Not all of you will look good holding her haha.....that’s the point of the PIA i think. Basically kind of like Lamborghini CEO once said ,,,,(You have to be brave and not be afraid to be seen with it or in it) ,,,that’s the PIA,,,congrats to the ones who got one.
 
#38 · (Edited)
Funny to me reading this stuff ,,OP just sounded bitter about the price,,I'm sure he wants one really bad ,,,PIA is awesome and pretty. Not all of you will look good holding her haha.....that's the point of the PIA i think. Basically kind of like Lamborghini CEO once said ,,,,(You have to be brave and not be afraid to be seen with it or in it) ,,,that's the PIA,,,congrats to the ones who got one.
I agree with with the Lamborghini statement :) My main guitars are my 7VWH, 77VBK, and 77BRMR , and I do get a lot of compliments from both males and females when I play out regarding their appearance...but I play them for how they feel and the features of the JEM are everything I would ever want on a guitar. The fact that my JEMS are the most comfortable and perfect guitars for me ..that's what matters to me. I might be tempted to pick up a new PIA, but I've been done buying guitars and amps for a long time
 
#42 ·
Complaints about cost, well, that's a given every year, surely ;). Companies have to factor in wages, production costs, cost of raw materials etc., plus making a profit. So, in the bigger scheme of things, $3k for a well spec'd guitar (where an artist also gets a percentage if it's a sig) is still not that much. Ask a professional violinist how much their instrument (excluding bow) costs, if they actually own it; or a wind instrument.

Folks at Ibanez have the numbers and quotas –*if stuff isn't selling, they drop it or change it up. They're not going to wait around for one person to save up enough cash so they can buy that 777LNG or whatever. Personally, I'm into quite different models from the Ibanez catalogue which have long been defunct; I doubt they'll ever be reissued, also because there's current guitars which fill the gaps in spec, and I don't see a point in moping about it.

Never a played a Jem myself, don't think MIJ ones were ever stocked in shops I've frequented. Would I try one? Sure. The new Pia? Tweaked up in a way they felt casting it as a new model was a safer bet rather than keeping it as the 'Jem', which would've caused a schism not seen since 1054 :D.

People should actually play one, and maybe compare it to a Jem to see how they like it, as most of the discussion here is about specs on paper and looks (I know, looks are the most important ;). I do dig the black one, have to say). Depending on how the Pia sells, they'll probably use that to inform decisions about its future and what they'll also do with the Jem.
 
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