Thoughts on the PIA (The new JEM)? - Page 7 - Jemsite
Ibanez JEM, UV, JS & Other Signature Models For discussion of Ibanez JEM, Universe and JS (Satriani) guitars only.

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post #91 of 519 (permalink) Old 01-07-2020, 04:42 AM
 
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Re: Thoughts on the PIA (The new JEM)?

Man, you really want to be right. \_(ツ)_/
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post #92 of 519 (permalink) Old 01-07-2020, 04:47 AM
 
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God bless the internet and our obsession with the tiniest of details. 🙂

They're both great. I own all three. I prefer Lo Pro for string changes but mostly out of familiarity.

I actually get the best performance out of my edge pro since I've spent the most time fine tuning the setup on that guitar and did the locking stud mod (thanks Rich).

I'm guessing for the majority on here Edge vs LoPro, either is good and whether we like the PIA will mostly be due to other factors...
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post #93 of 519 (permalink) Old 01-07-2020, 04:48 AM
 
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Re: Thoughts on the PIA (The new JEM)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBazz View Post
Saying you "Hate" the Lo-Pro is a very strong suggestion and comes across a bit childish...
That's ironic coming from you, but I'm not surprised that you're getting even more condescending the further we go along and you try to insist that your thoughts on the matter are the only ones that actually matter.

Quote:
...obviously it boils down to them effectively being the same thing with the Lo-Pro having easier access to the screws...
No, the Edge has better access due to not having to deal with the fine tuners. I don't have to worry at all about what position my fine tuners are in with the Edge.

Quote:
At least read the post if you're going to reply, because so far you've done a good job of making a lot of claims and assumptions that would be cleared if up you read the posts you're replying to.
There you go again making accusations when you're the one who pretended that no one else here owns any of these guitars when you made your presentations on how to use an Ibanez trem.



At least acknowledge that there may be merit to other peoples conclusions, even if you don't agree and stop with the silly accusations. Present your case on merit and stop the attempts at psychoanalysis.
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post #94 of 519 (permalink) Old 01-07-2020, 04:50 AM
 
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Re: Thoughts on the PIA (The new JEM)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibaraki_gaijin View Post
They're both great. I own all three. I prefer Lo Pro for string changes but mostly out of familiarity.

I actually get the best performance out of my edge pro since I've spent the most time fine tuning the setup on that guitar and did the locking stud mod (thanks Rich).

I'm guessing for the majority on here Edge vs LoPro, either is good and whether we like the PIA will mostly be due to other factors...
Well stated.
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post #95 of 519 (permalink) Old 01-07-2020, 04:57 AM
 
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Re: Thoughts on the PIA (The new JEM)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoseki View Post
That's ironic coming from you, but I'm not surprised that you're getting even more condescending the further we go along and you try to insist that your thoughts on the matter are the only ones that actually matter.

No, the Edge has better access due to not having to deal with the fine tuners. I don't have to worry at all about what position my fine tuners are in with the Edge.

There you go again making accusations when you're the one who pretended that no one else here owns any of these guitars when you made your presentations on how to use an Ibanez trem.



At least acknowledge that there may be merit to other peoples conclusions, even if you don't agree and stop with the silly accusations. Present your case on merit and stop the attempts at psychoanalysis.
1. Ironic of me to call you childish for fanboying? You're the one who says he hates the Lo-Pro and claim I love it. I like both the trems alot, the difference between them is small, I don't love the Lo-Pro, it's just a trem and so long as it stays in tune and the bar isn't wobbly I don't care that much.

2. I didn't claim nobody else owned the guitars or knew how they worked, but it's important to establish a point of reference (regarding mechanical differences) if you want to argue a point of view, but when I talk about subjects in my post and then you reply and say I'm unaware of all these aspects... How about read posts before you reply?

3. Micro-tuners - Again you didn't read my posts and you refuse to address those points... Angled/Ball End allen key, the microtuners are nowhere near in the way if you use the correct tool, regardless of the position of the fine tuners... Most allen keys you can buy have a right angle, any hardware store set will also offer a ball end, Floyd Rose supply a perfectly angled allen key with their Floyd Rose Pro systems.... Use the right tools.


Do you always get into arguments with people where you ignore everything they say and never address their points just so you don't even have to consider the other point of view?

Last edited by BigBazz; 01-07-2020 at 05:09 AM.
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post #96 of 519 (permalink) Old 01-07-2020, 05:09 AM
 
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Re: Thoughts on the PIA (The new JEM)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBazz View Post
Ironic of me to call you childish for fanboying?
Another childish opening for you. Nice attempt at suggesting that my preference for the Edge is based on ignorance, especially since you appear to be the one actually presenting as a LoPro fanboy. Would be great if you could just focus on the bridge itself and leave the personal stuff out. (I guess I've already said that a couple times but you seem to keep not reading my whole posts.)

Quote:
I didn't claim nobody else owned the guitars...
No, you just talk to us like you think we don't know how to use them and that you're the only pro in the forum.

Quote:
Angled/Ball End allen key, the microtuners are nowhere near in the way if you use the correct tool, regardless of the position of the fine tuners...Use the right tools.
The Ibanez wrench set which has been available for decades, is the right tool. Fine tuners aren't in the way IF, you go buy a ball end wrench, which, just to let you know, is something I considered doing, but decided not to because I have a perfectly designed Edge that works BETTER FOR ME than the LoPro can/will. I have the right tools.

Quote:
Do you always get into arguments with people where you ignore everything they say and never address their points just so you don't even have to consider the other point of view?
No, I get into arguments with people who think their view is the only valid one.

Quit taking it so personally and acknowledge that your view may not be the only one that works. There is no way that the LoPro is universally better than the Edge; just better for some users and not for others.
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post #97 of 519 (permalink) Old 01-07-2020, 05:14 AM
 
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Re: Thoughts on the PIA (The new JEM)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBazz View Post
I like both the trems very much, the only relevant difference for me is how easy/fast it is to restring, which is exactly what I said originally and ultimately not a deal breaker in the slightest.

Saying you "Hate" the Lo-Pro is a very strong suggestion and comes across a bit childish, I certainly don't hate anything that is well built and performs it's function well. I attempted to convince you of my logic by explaining how the mechanics lined up with my thought process, you attempted to avoid talking about the mechanics and instead basically attacked me by suggesting I was clueless to the very things I talked about in my previous posts.

I mean come on if you were so convinced of your line of thought you'd have something more than trying to discredit me as a person while displaying pure tribalism style fandom for a lump of metal. If you wanted to convince me you should have focussed on the mechanics of the unit, but obviously it boils down to them effectively being the same thing with the Lo-Pro having easier access to the screws, which was the basis for my point all along. I don't really care what trem you prefer, I was looking for some mechanical logic to your view and the only one would be if you've yet to discover the angled or ball end allen key and you only use straight ones.

At least read the post if you're going to reply, because so far you've done a good job of making a lot of claims and assumptions that would be cleared if up you read the posts you're replying to.



Condescension is generally the tone I give to someone (not you) who decides to

1. Not read posts, then post about aspects I discussed in those very posts as if I'm unaware of them.. Ex. dipping the trem, changing strings quickly/during a song.
2. Not address any of the mechanical points I raised, but still take the time to jump to some wild conclusions and blind assumptions for a personal dig. Ad-hominem.
3. Display of pure irrational fanboyism for a lump of metal, I didn't know it was such a topic that we need to talk about "hating" a trem.

It's completely fine to like one unit more than the other, but we're now participating in an argument where Hoseki doesn't want to talk about the trems or how they are designed, he wants to try to "win" the argument by attempting to discredit me with assumptions from his imagination.... That's when I get really condescending like I'm talking to a child.
You are too easy to jump at people that have other opinion that you have. You should relax.
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Last edited by peromucho7; 01-07-2020 at 08:08 AM.
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post #98 of 519 (permalink) Old 01-07-2020, 05:25 AM
 
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Re: Thoughts on the PIA (The new JEM)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoseki View Post
Another childish opening for you. Nice attempt at suggesting that my preference for the Edge is based on ignorance, especially since you appear to be the one actually presenting as a LoPro fanboy. Would be great if you could just focus on the bridge itself and leave the personal stuff out. (I guess I've already said that a couple times but you seem to keep not reading my whole posts.)

No, you just talk to us like you think we don't know how to use them and that you're the only pro in the forum.

The Ibanez wrench set which has been available for decades, is the right tool. Fine tuners aren't in the way IF, you go buy a ball end wrench, which, just to let you know, is something I considered doing, but decided not to because I have a perfectly designed Edge that works BETTER FOR ME than the LoPro can/will. I have the right tools.

No, I get into arguments with people who think their view is the only valid one.

Quit taking it so personally and acknowledge that your view may not be the only one that works. There is no way that the LoPro is universally better than the Edge; just better for some users and not for others.
1. I didn't suggest anything about the basis of your preference. I was saying objectively the Lo-Pro is faster for string changes. It's not my fault that your whole basis for saying the Edge has faster string changes is due to not having the correct tools. You saying you "Hate" the lo pro is another matter, how can I not assume ignorance if you hate something based on you literally saying that you don't know how to use it and/or lack the proper tools? You've said this, not me... I tried to explain you how the problem does not exist, unless you use the wrong tool.

2. You accuse me of suggesting people don't know how to use the trems, meanwhile the basis of your argument was that I had never changed a string on stage, and that I didn't know about the trem dip method? Setting aside that I talked about those in my post and you didn't read it, while I was talking about the mechanics you were busy telling me I just didn't know how to string properly.... You try to project your own mentality on to me, literal projection.

3. The Ibanez multi-tool is a handy multi-tool, but it's not the ideal tool for every job or every guitar and you're basically trying to defend your point by saying the correct tool for the job is not the one that's suited to the job, but the one that fits your hole filled argument. For a Lo-Pro the correct tool is an angled allen key, as was provided with my Jem 7V.

4. You got into an argument with me where I tried to argue the mechanics, where you ignored all my points and then instead called me clueless, then finished up by accusing me of all the things you yourself were guilty of while never answering any question. You argue like a dirty politician, dodge and redirect back.

5. Where did I say the Lo-Pro was universally better? I've not said or suggested that in any post (go read them for once). You post like a dirty politician, constantly trying to pin **** on me that I haven't even said.
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post #99 of 519 (permalink) Old 01-07-2020, 05:49 AM
 
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Re: Thoughts on the PIA (The new JEM)?

Off-topic discussions are the best!

Obviously again a matter of personal preference and experience. Regarding mid song string change I go with BigBazz for the exact same reason. You do not have to touch the tremolo arm at all. With both versions you have to open the toplock and unwind the string, so I also don't see that point, but hey, if you managed to be quicker with the Edge because you unwind less or whatever and like the feeling better that is great.
BTW for decades I used the right angled allen key that came with my BFP and never anything was in the way.

Back to topic. My personal thoughts on the PIA.
PIA has
- holes that are no longer a handle
- gold hardware that even Steve never liked on his guitar
- extremely ugly colors (maybe better in real life, and yes: THIS IS MY PERSONAL TASTE)
- a single coil that does not have the cover design like the humbuckers (extremely ugly, already did not like it in Woody, you look at it and don't understand why, MY PERSONAL TASTE)
- a high price (ok, relatively)

Good or neutral:
- Luminlay
- Edge
- Stainless steel frets (People seem to like them, I do not too much)
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post #100 of 519 (permalink) Old 01-07-2020, 06:55 AM
 
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Re: Thoughts on the PIA (The new JEM)?

Mid-song I change guitars, not strings. It is the fastest way to be in tune.
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post #101 of 519 (permalink) Old 01-07-2020, 07:09 AM
 
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Re: Thoughts on the PIA (The new JEM)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vy100 View Post
Mid-song I change guitars, not strings. It is the fastest way to be in tune.
That is actually the best argument of the last pages.
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post #102 of 519 (permalink) Old 01-07-2020, 07:29 AM
 
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Cool Re: Thoughts on the PIA (The new JEM)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vy100 View Post
Mid-song I change guitars, not strings. It is the fastest way to be in tune.

I was waiting to get through all this (skimming at best), just so you could beat me to it. Well done sir!

I always bring 3 guitars, just to be sure. Two on a stand and one in the case. I change the guitar before the next verse is started...

However, I'm in a cover band and we play for 4 hours, so it makes sense...
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post #103 of 519 (permalink) Old 01-07-2020, 08:33 AM
 
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Re: Thoughts on the PIA (The new JEM)?

In 1994 I had two guitars. My Jem BFP and a Yamaha RGX. We were not playing live on MTV and I wanted to play my Jem, so I unwinded a broken string mid song. Who cares. I forgot to mention that we were drunk all the time. So it was probably more a retune in between three songs.

Later we also played songs with dropped tuning and I no longer had a fast backup. Then I had a Universe with an Original Edge 7 and no spare 7-string.
So there are reasons to change or unwind mid song, obviously not very professional. I still unwind after a string break during practice at home just for a quick fix.

Now I have a lot of guitars and no longer play live.
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post #104 of 519 (permalink) Old 01-07-2020, 09:46 AM
 
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Re: Thoughts on the PIA (The new JEM)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBazz View Post
You post like a dirty politician, constantly trying to pin **** on me that I haven't even said.
This about sums up your argument style.


I'll sum up for you one last time, not that you'll pay any attention to it other than to stay in attack mode.



I could easily do just fine with the LoPro (and would have) except for the existence of the Edge, which I find to be absolutely perfect for me.
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post #105 of 519 (permalink) Old 01-07-2020, 09:53 AM
 
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Re: Thoughts on the PIA (The new JEM)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jemerator View Post
My personal thoughts on the PIA.

Good or neutral:
- Luminlay
- Edge
- Stainless steel frets
I can go with this part of the list. Wouldn't mind all high end guitars coming with Luminlay and either stainless or EVO frets.
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