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Thoughts on the PIA (The new JEM)?

163K views 714 replies 102 participants last post by  SkeletronPrime 
#1 ·
Ibanez' big announcement was leaked in a facebook group today with Steve's new PIA model. There are some pretty radical changes, I'm kinda sad about the monkey grip, but stainless steel frets is a big plus. I can't help but wonder if the Art JEMs were a better direction to go in, I'd take a sustainer+stainless 7v over the new ones... Thoughts?

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#55 ·
well, I believe it really depends on whether Steve will actually play these guitars... Many Jems have been released through the years but Steve kept using the same guitars...( EVO, FLO, FLOIII, BO...)
And probably he needs a new album to promote the new guitar.

To be honest though, the difference between the JEM and PIA is only the look.... nothing has really changed.
 
#67 ·
I gotta say, the general reception seems pretty damn negative. It's growing on me. The color really makes or breaks this guitar for me, I really like the green and gold with the pink/teal inlays. As for the Stallion White, I think it looks too similar to the JEM7VWH, almost like a knockoff. But if Steve intends it to be the replacement for the 7VWH then that's what it is, I would have preferred they kept it as the flagship and just added a regular production PIA in a cool, different finish. In any case, I don't want to be too critical based on this one low quality catalog shot and I'm sure we'll get to hear the story behind the guitar soon.
 
#74 ·
Steve taketh away - Low Pro Edge, tasteful hardware colors and pickups.

That's sort of how I see it. The project could be salvaged with a LoPro Edge, normal black hardware, regular pickups and better colors. But he went the opposite direction. On all of it.
I don't think any Jem has had a Lo-Pro in years, it was the Edge Pro for a few years and then went back to the Original Edge, and while I definitely do prefer the Lo-Pro the only real advantage for me is that it's slightly easier/faster to change strings than the old Edge. I think I'm right in saying that Steve uses an original Edge these days on his guitar so it would make sense that the PIA comes with that too. I definitely think that less Chibanez styled hardware and some less "rich" looking colours would tame the sickly look of them and make them a lot more appealing.

Bit of an off-topic rant - Speaking of Lo-Pro, the Lo-Pro on my old 94 7V seems to be wankered after this eventful year (neck split, repaired and SS refret). The guitar goes out of tune when you bend the B and G strings, (they go flat) and then it returns somewhat if you dive bomb to zero. I temporarily replaced it with the Original Edge from my 777 30th as a tester and it fixed the problem. That guitar was completely bomb proof for so many years, replacement trem is £250-300 without the nut which if you shop about is halfway to an RG550 complete with an Original Edge, replacement part prices make me a bit sick.
 
#79 ·
The point of the design was the lower the profile for folks with picking styles that got their palms way back by the whale tail.

I have both on various guitars. I find the Original Edge quicker to deal with as well (and quite a bit better balanced for my taste). Way less fussy. Depress the arm a smidgen, boom, super easy access to the saddle screws from the back with no obstruction from the fine tuners. I've also never seen the point of removing all the strings to restring - if you wanna clean your fretboard/do electronics work/whatever else, just remove the springs and pop the whole bridge off.

They're equally stable, of course.
 
#81 ·
The point of the design was the lower the profile for palm muting and for folks who pick with their wrists way back.

I have both on various guitars. I find the Original Edge quicker to deal with as well (and quite a bit better balanced for my taste). Way less fussy. Depress the arm a smidgen, boom, super easy access to the saddle screws from the back with no obstruction from the fine tuners. I've also never seen the point of removing all the strings to restring - if you wanna clean your fretboard/do electronics work/whatever else, just remove the springs and pop the whole bridge off.

They're equally stable, of course.
Part of the design was clearly for faster string changes and improvements in that area, I didn't say it was the "point" of the design.. "Depress the arm a smidgen" - Or don't with the Lo-Pro because you don't need to in order to access the screws? If you use an appropriate tool the microtuners are well out of the way, and even if you use a completely straight allen key with no ball end you can still easily unlock or lock the screws unless the microtuners are fully out. Logical thinking person is going to use the right tools for the job (in this case an angled allen key with a ball end on the straight side), so you shouldn't be arguing your point based on the contrary.

The reason an Original Edge is slower to restring is directly because you have to press the arm down to access the screws, and partly because the blocks like to move about in the hole and it's slightly slower to perfectly position a string in a pinch. I've been gigging my Jems for years at about 150 shows per year in the last few years, I haven't come to this conclusion from a lack of experience.. I've never even considered the idea that an original Edge was a faster string change, because it's more fiddly.
 
#82 ·
Been gigging 'em 20 years, I don't have any actual problem with either - I just find depressing the trem _way_ quicker than socketing an allen wrench (angled w/ a ball end or otherwise) in the lo-pro's saddle screws. The "right tool for the job" just isn't as quick, I'm sorry. I think you're trying to create a single right answer when there isn't one to be had.

I'm not arguing any point, nor suggesting that you're wrong the find the lo-pro quicker. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I totally agree that there's way more play in the string blocks in the OE, but, like, you don't have to unscrew enough to create problematic amounts of play.
 
#84 ·
Been gigging 'em 20 years, I don't have any actual problem with either - I just find depressing the trem _way_ quicker than socketing an allen wrench (angled w/ a ball end or otherwise) in the lo-pro's saddle screws. The "right tool for the job" just isn't as quick, I'm sorry.
Not only that, but when I drop in the end of the extra string length that I've just unwound from the tuner, with the string re-clamped with the bar floored, automatic tension is applied when it's released and it's just that much quicker too, getting tuned back up.
 
#88 ·
:facepalm: You seem to be making this some kinda competition. It's not. There's more than one way to do this, and what's quicker for how one person does it is, y'know, gonna be quicker for how they do it. The mechanics aren't objectively any "better", just different. They seem to work incredibly well for you, which is brilliant. Your condescension isn't.
 
#92 ·
God bless the internet and our obsession with the tiniest of details. 🙂

They're both great. I own all three. I prefer Lo Pro for string changes but mostly out of familiarity.

I actually get the best performance out of my edge pro since I've spent the most time fine tuning the setup on that guitar and did the locking stud mod (thanks Rich).

I'm guessing for the majority on here Edge vs LoPro, either is good and whether we like the PIA will mostly be due to other factors...
 
#94 ·
They're both great. I own all three. I prefer Lo Pro for string changes but mostly out of familiarity.

I actually get the best performance out of my edge pro since I've spent the most time fine tuning the setup on that guitar and did the locking stud mod (thanks Rich).

I'm guessing for the majority on here Edge vs LoPro, either is good and whether we like the PIA will mostly be due to other factors...
Well stated.
 
#99 ·
Off-topic discussions are the best!

Obviously again a matter of personal preference and experience. Regarding mid song string change I go with BigBazz for the exact same reason. You do not have to touch the tremolo arm at all. With both versions you have to open the toplock and unwind the string, so I also don't see that point, but hey, if you managed to be quicker with the Edge because you unwind less or whatever and like the feeling better that is great.
BTW for decades I used the right angled allen key that came with my BFP and never anything was in the way.

Back to topic. My personal thoughts on the PIA.
PIA has
- holes that are no longer a handle
- gold hardware that even Steve never liked on his guitar
- extremely ugly colors (maybe better in real life, and yes: THIS IS MY PERSONAL TASTE)
- a single coil that does not have the cover design like the humbuckers (extremely ugly, already did not like it in Woody, you look at it and don't understand why, MY PERSONAL TASTE)
- a high price (ok, relatively)

Good or neutral:
- Luminlay
- Edge
- Stainless steel frets (People seem to like them, I do not too much)
 
#103 ·
In 1994 I had two guitars. My Jem BFP and a Yamaha RGX. We were not playing live on MTV and I wanted to play my Jem, so I unwinded a broken string mid song. Who cares. I forgot to mention that we were drunk all the time. So it was probably more a retune in between three songs.

Later we also played songs with dropped tuning and I no longer had a fast backup. Then I had a Universe with an Original Edge 7 and no spare 7-string.
So there are reasons to change or unwind mid song, obviously not very professional. I still unwind after a string break during practice at home just for a quick fix.

Now I have a lot of guitars and no longer play live. :)
 
#111 ·
I've just spent half an hour reading this seemingly endless debate. It's all got a bit too personal and nobody seems to want to just let it go and 'get back on topic'.

Can you all please be happy with your preferred trems, stop trying to provoke each other/have the final word and let this thread go back to being about the Pia?
I'm surprised you read it, I apologise. I don't disagree with you from an outside perspective but internet happens sometimes. Hindsight I'd prefer a PM exchange or one to one person to person discussion with Hoseki, because then the only people you have to convince are each other, not the "audience.

Hey guys, VERY long time, no see.

I just have to say that this is fugly.

I want to believe this is an elaborate prank by Ibanez to get back at the leakers who have been spoiling NAMM since about 96-97, and that our friend @Rich is on it. I really want to believe!!!

Let me hope (or dream) that Ibanez will unveil a killer UV and or Jem with a huge HA-HA to us internet speculators. I'll be the first to cheer and said "well played".

(just a lighthearted remark!)
If it turned out to be an elaborate and well organised prank I'd be the first person to have to eat my words, but I'd eat them gladly. Sadly I don't think that's the case, I recon enough people will like the PIA that it will be a reasonable short term success, though I think the Japanese made Jem needs to make a return in future. I mean is Steve going to stop playing EVO? He has built an incredible brand with the Jem, given he is on the back end of his career and his big success is behind him this is a bold and risky move, but not for the right reasons.

I'd love to see how the people at Ibanez see it, whether they are all on board or as sceptical as the rest of us.
 
#109 ·
Hey guys, VERY long time, no see.

I just have to say that this is fugly.

I want to believe this is an elaborate prank by Ibanez to get back at the leakers who have been spoiling NAMM since about 96-97, and that our friend @Rich is on it. I really want to believe!!!

Let me hope (or dream) that Ibanez will unveil a killer UV and or Jem with a huge HA-HA to us internet speculators. I'll be the first to cheer and said "well played".

(just a lighthearted remark!)
 
#110 ·
Let me hope (or dream) that Ibanez will unveil a killer UV and or Jem with a huge HA-HA to us internet speculators. I'll be the first to cheer and said "well played"
I'm in the same camp. I really want this to be a clever hoax/distraction engineered to keep the real release secret.

If the Pia is what all the 'fuss & secrecy' has been about, I will be deeply underwhelmed. Whilst I appreciate that Ibanez will not care that much about one consumers views, I was really hoping for an innovative new Jem rather than a new model with a completely derivative design.
 
#112 ·
^ & I thought politics, the holidays & twitter brought out the worst of people's convo LOL. Happy 2020. Interesting thread, i'll add 13-cents worth of comments & surely sign back out:

1/ PIA is more an april fools prank from back in the day than my cup of tea but maybe it's yours!
2/ While Vai/JEM superfans are tapping out, maybe Fujigen capacity has too - who knows - Ibanez will no doubt commission enough of each "limited color" to be essentially sold out from a distributor POV.
3/ The JEM line peaked ~ 2000 but no surprise because...
4/ Vai hasn't really played a stock JEM since the '88 77FP.
5/ The "greatest hits" tour of tiresome $4-8k nostalgia axes was tenuous at best & embarrassing at worst.
6/ Props to Vai for killing the real JEM (RIP MIJ 1987-2020) that began as the guitar Steve could grab off a showroom anywhere in the world & go play on stage.
7/ Steve & family has to be proud he's put himself in position to & make this move to start fresh with a new halo model Ibanez... free of fan history & expectations.
8/ All good things come to an end & often rather poorly... Steve now avoids that (intentional or not wait for NAMM interviews) for the "legacy" JEM.
9/ Superfans don't want to hear it but in terms of MIJ models, Steve has been to the JEM what George is Star Wars & Jerry is to the Cowboys.
10/ If Steve doesn't actually play these models - why would he is my question - then his skills as "guitar designer" & influencer in 2020 will be tested. He'll bank JemJr sales (& should expand that line), so it's a win/win no risk all reward imho.
11/ The (super high) pricing on PIA makes selling a nostalgia JEM rather tricky as that would cannibalize PIA sales dramatically in the next couple of years anyways.
12/ I think PIA being INDO makes more sense as the reduced cost & Vai baggage - "monkey grip", "Lions claw" - would make PIA more accessible, especially to females.
13/ Superfans will always lament the stuff Steve/Ibanez didn't bring to the JEM, a lost opportunity 'cause there was a huge window to grow & sell unique MIJ JEMs until GenX really starts considering retirement.
 
#116 ·
The JEM line peaked ~ 2000 but no surprise because...Vai hasn't really played a stock JEM since the '88 77FP.
Interesting now to actually see it in print, but you're right. Ever since he decided to give himself a Sustainer at least, but not us. At least I've got the guitar you mentioned though and my 77FP remains my absolute best sounding guitar out of all the other Ibanez models I've had or still have even.
 
#113 ·
I wonder if Joe Despagni's passing a while back meant Steve felt he could let go of the JEM idea at last and whether he's wanted to do this for a while? I think it's a huge mistake, the JEM could have been to Ibanez what the Les Paul is to Gibson, and taken on a life of its own. But maybe not. Maybe JEM sales dropped off as Vai's got more away from being a guitar instrumentalist/ultimate sideman?

I'm going to lament the passing of the JEM, I've realised I'm more interested in the JEM than in Vai's signature model so to speak and so like Glen said above, is Vai still enough of an "influencer" to make the PIA a success? Or is Ibanez's market share now mainly Indonesian Polyphia/Chon signature models?
 
#115 ·
I was more a Jem fan than a Vai fan to begin with, I knew of the guitars from magazine shop adverts and price listings when I first started playing before I knew who Steve really was. In my experience people are always having big respect for Steve's playing, but if they like the guitar it's about the guitar and not the Vai association. Of course different for different people, I'd still say Vai is a much bigger name than Polyphia/Chon, they are completely unknown outside specific circles, Vai is well known enough to be mainstream recognisable.

I don't know how that relates to sales though, be interesting to see Ibanez's figures.

"I'm done here" and "Apologies to the mods" seem somewhat insincere..
You always have to have a dig, always a personal dig by projecting motivations and intentions, twisting the words, you can't just take words as they are can you? That was the whole point of my long post, to point out your venomous, deceptive and cowardly approach to discussion. If you were ready to leave it be you'd have not replied. Leave it go, in future if you're going to start a fight with me just PM me.
 
#124 ·
Speaking of Gibson, I'm reminded of the attempt to replace the Les Paul with the SG, with them calling it the new Les Paul. Gibson immediately backtracked and went back to the original Les Paul and renamed the SG the SG. Maybe the same will happen here?
And to the string change guys - seriously! :D
I've gone more to fixed bridge so this is kind of silly. haha! And why does string changes on stage mean anything? Bring two guitars! And one of the two should be fixed bridge. More than enough time between sets to change, stretch, and tune a string. Sheesh!
 
#144 ·
I've gone more to fixed bridge so this is kind of silly. haha! And why does string changes on stage mean anything? Bring two guitars! And one of the two should be fixed bridge. More than enough time between sets to change, stretch, and tune a string. Sheesh!
Because, to each his own? That's why both single cut and double cut guitars exist, not to mention the preference for 22 or 24 frets, trem or no trem.
 
#129 ·
I think this new PIA line (if it's really going to happen) is going to be for female guitarists, as some of you have already pointed out.

I happened to bump into this recent article, which may point at that direction:

When Steve Vai was approached by album producer Brad Tolinski about releasing the compilation She Rocks, Volume 1 on his Favored Nations label, he immediately agreed. The project caught his interest because of his obvious love for guitar music and, he says, "I've been seeing this emergence of female guitar players for quite some time and it's very exciting." Presented with the opportunity to help promote talent, he was onboard. "The statistic a year or so ago that the sale of guitars is proportionately higher for women to men is a huge message of the evolution of women playing guitar," he says. "So I'm glad that I was able to work with Brad and She Rocks on creating that record. It's a great smattering of the various contributions that women are making right now."

Full article: https://guitargirlmag.com/interview...niqueness-our-diversity-and-our-creativity-2/

If it is so, then it might be that PIA line is not the full story, and there may be new JEM's to be announced later. After all, the catalog is subject to change till 16th of Jan...
 
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