Tone and Pickups - JEM777DY vs JEM77FP - Jemsite
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-14-2001, 01:13 AM Thread Starter
 
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Tone and Pickups - JEM777DY vs JEM77FP

OK, here's my question. *I recently aquired a JEM77FP from Andy D here on Jemsite. *The guitar cooks man, I like it as much as my VWH. *
It supposedly has the original PAF's in it, (at least that's what I was originally told, I asked Andy to check into it again) and so does my JEM777DY. *
However, same amp, same effects, same pickups (?) WAY different tone! *
Like light years apart. *The FP sounds really close to my VWH's EVO's while the DY has that thin weak sounding tone that I remember the PAF's having. *
Is the rear routed body that monumental in changing the tone of the guitar as opposed to the front routed DY, I don't think so, I've put PAF's into other guitars that were rear routed and they sounded like my DY, thin.
What could be causing the difference in tone, the body, or is it more likely that the FP does not have PAF's or that the PAF's have been modded. *The guitar originally belonged to Steve Vai's studio engineer (I can't remember the name but it's on the buy and sell page) so I guess maybe it's possible.
If there are different ways to wire the PAF's would this possibly be the reason? Or is it the pickguard mounted pickups *vs the body mounted in the FP.
It's alot of questions, but I'd love to make my DY sound like the FP I've got now.
Thanx in advance for your replies.
Jeremy
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-14-2001, 03:24 AM
 
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Tone and Pickups

How old are the two guitars comparitively. Age/use changes the tone of the pickups. If they are the same pickups and your DY is thin then they are pretty spent.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-14-2001, 08:34 AM
 
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Tone and Pickups

Funny you should ask...I have a brand new virtually unplayed DY and it sounds thin!! *I also have a 2000 FP which sounds more harsh and yes more like my VWH. *Then I've got a BFP that was played and it sounds incredible. *

I'm am also asking the question is the route that much different. *If it's attributed to pickup use my DY defies the rule unless this could be a result of pickup age not play (it literally has an hour of playing on it).

So I pulled it apart at Rich H's suggestion thinking it may be wired out of phase thus the thin sound. *I did notice that one of the ground wires wasn't connected (I honestly don't know if I did this taking it apart or if it was that way). *Anyhow I did my work with the soddering iron and fixed it. *It's still no where near the BFP.

Even funnier none of the wiring diagrams came close to what's going on in the schematics on Jemsite. *(I meant to start a thread on this!) *I pulled a schematic from DiMarzio's site and have a plan.

I'll check the DY against the Dimarzio wiring diagram and see if it makes any more sense. *At the same time I'll A+B the DY wiring with the BFP and get back to you...hopefully with a sweet sounding DY. By the way, the DY is a 90. *

Maybe Glen or someone who's owned many JEM's has further insight before I pull a FrankenJEM and start throwing BFP's pu's into my DY for a sanity check. *(BTW, Alex I hope you aren't reading this LOL!)

The only other thing (that's way too obvious) is the neck and bridge pu's on my BFP were adjusted to support a fairly sever angle (low on the bass side and very high on the treble for the bridge and just the opposite for the neck.) *I'll probably take a stab in the dark and fool with this before surgery. *

After writing this I'm even more worked up about the whole thing. *

JC * *
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-14-2001, 09:46 AM
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The BFP/FP with rear route and more body wood will have a slightly different sound but the DY should not be 'thin' by any stretch. Keep investigating ...glen
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-14-2001, 09:47 AM
 
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*Well I just got my 4th FP yesterday! *it's the 2000, and have had 3 SK's and a DY, Last summer I had an SK and my FP #3 side by side. Plus this 2000 FP is my 24th Jem/UV over 12 years. I have the jem/uv sickness I only have the 2000 FP and a 1991 UV777GR at the moment.

*It realy comes down to every chunk of wood is diferent, and all the elements together, *the tonal quality from one to the next (same model and year) can even be very drastic! *Also original edge compared to the low pro brings diference.The *Finish,,, Body mounted pickups over guard mounted. Body routing, *I think pickups that are the same model can vary slightly, but again over all I would have to vote, its the Wood itself.

Play each Guitar with as close to the same tension set up, same gauge & brand strings, with out plugging in. This is where we find the natural qualities.

I had a UVMC that was very thin next to another UVMC, and a UV777GR with maple board that was thinker than both MC's. Just had two diferent DNA's back to back and one was huge sounding and the other excellent but much thinner.

Hope that helps,,,
peace
RJ~FP2K
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-14-2001, 11:19 AM
 
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Tone and Pickups

All I know is my '88 FP sounds cooler than any other Jem! The tone must be in the fabric! :lame:
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-14-2001, 11:45 AM
 
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Tone and Pickups

Iain,

I know you have or have had quite a few JEM's and Ibanez's...have you had a BFP? *If not, I'll put my BFP against any FP! *I'm pretty sure you live in NJ, I'm in Philly. *It would be pretty cool to get together and see if alot of this stuff is personal taste, rig oriented or just a plain old it's in the piece of lumber not the JEM model name as RJ suggested. *This really interests me, because I haven't had the opportunity to compare this stuff with another pair of ears!!

BTW, I'd do it at JemFest but you guys scheduled that on my wedding day and I couldn't talk her out a slight redirection of the ceremonies! *Another kicker, we'll be in Orlando on our honeymoon the day after Jemfest!
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-14-2001, 04:44 PM
 
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Tone and Pickups

I'd like to know the years of manufacture most of us are referring to with the FPs we're using to compare tone. *The later-issued ones have direct-mounted pickups which grab so much more from the guitar. *Individual wood densities will also play a role. *So will rosewood versus maple. *My 777Vbk (structurally the same guitar as an earlier 77fp) sounds much different than my 777LG
or 777SK. *All models sound remarkably ifferent from each other. * Most noteably the 777V from the 777's. *My FPs which are later issues sound different from all the other PAF-Pro loaded Jems. *We need to acknowledge these things for ammunition when someone (usually a significant other) asks: "Why do you need so many guitars?"
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-14-2001, 07:58 PM Thread Starter
 
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Tone and Pickups

My DY is an 87 and the FP is an 89. *But, the FP I'm sure has more playing time on it than the DY would have. *I've also got an old RG that I customized and put a PAF in and it sounds identical to my DY, really thin!
I also have a friend with a DY and an FP that I called last night to ask and he says his DY is much thinner than the FP, ironically, they are both the same years as mine! *
I know the fabric on the FP is not the issue as it was refinished before I got it (blasphemy!!!!) and the fabric is gone. *
I looked at the wiring and the 2 guitars are wired the same, I don't know, weird stuff. *Guess I'll just have to buy a couple more DY's and FP's to compare!!! *Maybe an SK, and LNG and blah blah blah..............
Jeremy
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-19-2001, 03:55 PM
 
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Tone and Pickups

Interesting information...I adjusted the neck pickups pretty low on the bass side and fairly high on the treble side of my DY. *I'll be damned if it doesn't sound a little fatter and sweeter.

Really surprising...I need to try this with the FP next.
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-19-2001, 04:29 PM
 
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Tone and Pickups

WELL I HAVE A JEM77FP IT WAS MADE IN 1989

IT IS IN MORE O LESS CONDITION
IT HAS EVOS
BUT IT SOUNDS GREAT
I CANT REALLY COMPARE IT TO OTHER JEM BUT I ONLY KNOW THAT IS THE BEST GUITAR I HAVE PLAYED
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-19-2001, 04:31 PM
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Tone and Pickups

Quote:
Quote: from ultrazoneman on 4:29 pm on Feb. 19, 2001
WELL I HAVE A JEM77FP IT WAS MADE IN 1989. IT IS IN MORE O LESS CONDITION. IT HAS EVOS. BUT IT SOUNDS GREAT
I CANT REALLY COMPARE IT TO OTHER JEM BUT I ONLY KNOW THAT IS THE BEST GUITAR I HAVE PLAYED
Cool. Now look for the CAPLOCK key on your keyboard
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