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Why is it impossible to buy an Ibanez Backstop?

24K views 65 replies 14 participants last post by  InHiding 
#1 ·
and what is the main purpose of it? I suppose it allows you go more crazy with the whammy bar. Why is not available to the public? How come you cannot even find it on Ebay. It already comes included with the new 30th Anniversary Jem.

Can you install this on a new Jem or an RG655?
 
#11 ·
I've been trying to spot one for a good price on ebay and reverb lately but they never go under 200$, and they dont look in a mint condition. any advice where i can find ones for moderate price say around 50$ ?
and i dont see why they can be rare, ibanez still put those on the new Jems ..so they gotta be some around some where
 
#15 · (Edited)
Before, I got into it.. i installed an ESP arming adjuster on my Ibanez just to be able to play two string bends so none of the other strings get out of tune
after i installed the ESP it took me a while to tweak it and set it right.. but the the result and the feel of the guitar was nice, you can still even do other trem tricks, except for the flutter technique which will become almost impossible to do.

however now i need to try to Backstop instead of the ESP arming adjuster.. since it has more springs and the thing is installed right in the middle which make the whole thing more symmetrical.
I could still try to install two ESP arming adjusters but there a would be a lot of hassle to align them just in the right spot.
 
#17 · (Edited)
I found it made the tuning stability worse on my 30th 777. The 777 wasn't returning consistently when I first had it so the tuning stability was less than perfect, I narrowed it down to the backstop and within a day of owning the guitar I had already disengaged it, the return/stability was (still is) flawless after that. I've tried again some time after to get it working usefully but no luck and I'm no stranger to setting up guitars. The only thing I could see it being useful for is if you want to remove/reduce flutter, I did want to experiment with reducing flutter for recording rhythm but in the end I gave up with it.

Before, I got into it.. i installed an ESP arming adjuster on my Ibanez just to be able to play two string bends so none of the other strings get out of tune
after i installed the ESP it took me a while to tweak it and set it right.. but the the result and the feel of the guitar was nice, you can still even do other trem tricks, except for the flutter technique which will become almost impossible to do.

however now i need to try to Backstop instead of the ESP arming adjuster.. since it has more springs and the thing is installed right in the middle which make the whole thing more symmetrical.
I could still try to install two ESP arming adjusters but there a would be a lot of hassle to align them just in the right spot.
The backstop won't stop other strings going flat if you bend a string, if you bend a string the other strings go flat because the trem leans forward while the backstop is also pushing it forward. To avoid strings going flat you would need something that gives resistance by pulling the trem block rather than pushing it. The idea of the backstop seems to be so when you pull up on the trem it provides spring based resistance that will push the trem back into place when you let go, but in my experience with it that just doesn't always work out (probably because it requires the backstop mechanism itself to be 100% consistent/stable, there are more moving parts, more potential things to mess with your tuning stability).

Anyway I don't see any valuable use for the backstop in a well setup guitar, disengaging it was the best decision. I do highly recommend the Tremol-no though, have one on my 7V and it works as advertised.
 
#20 ·
Who plays country on a double locker?! :lol:

Whoever wants to, but it's not the norm of course. But the point is still right, microbending to adjust to pitch drop in bends becomes an innate part of your playing. There may be some times you won't sound in perfect intonation but lets get real, if the lick is that fast who noticed?

And a backstop doesn't do anything more than adding a couple extra springs would making the bridge harder to pull forward, keeping it more in relative tune when you are bending strings. Which is usually why people use 5 springs, not because they want Popeye forearms when using the trem.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Who plays country on a double locker?! :lol.
I play everything on it! You know I ordered a Suhr Tele for this job in april (ish) last year with the idea that I would have the Jem just "get me by" until that came, well it took give or take 18 months for Suhr to finish building my guitar.... So yeah played quite a bit of country stuff on a Jem!

Edit : Since we're on the topic, proper country players will frown on me for this but I use the tremolo with the slide at the same time, the Tremol-no gets some use but unless I need to play stuff with a lot of chord bending I won't engage it because I like to use the trem a bit. Of course that guitar is out of commisson at the moment, I was using the Jem 777 for a lot of shows lately (until getting my Suhr a few weeks back) and previously it was a stay at home guitar, ahh well.
 
#22 ·
so as im still itching like a sick dog to get a good deal on one of those backstops I made an international VOIP call to Ibanez USA.
The guy on the phone seemed cool and helpful.
At first he said that he didnt know what i was asking for..(i think he was pretending or i dont know), then he said "ahh ok"
and asked me to wait on the phone and he will see what he can do. (i waited for like 8 minutes).
he came back and explained to me that this part is not for sale due to the issue that we all know about it. ( which was the response I pretty much was expecting).
I also tried to contact HOSHINO Japan but the answer machine was in Japanese, I tired to call them again in another time but the guy on the other end didn't speak english at all
 
#32 ·
You just wasted time. You could have just asked here.

Ibanez had 100 specifically made for the EVO's, then they had another batch made for the 30ths. I asked them repeatedly that there was a market for these, make more for parts. They refuse, and one thing I can guarantee is if they did, they would cost at least $200 retail.

Now all these latest batches are no longer Ibanez branded, where the original was. And after the EVO run there was a guy from Indo on ebay selling what were apparent overruns, I think he had like 10, for $60 each. Because they were non branded and he was kind of a **** I just passed. But that would have been the pricing of a typical normal part, like an arming adjuster is $40/45, etc. Once it goes thru Ibanez, multiply the price by 4, period.

Point being, there are 2 different types of backstops, though they both look identical from the top, the originals had the Ibanez logo on the bottom, the new ones are blank.
 
#33 ·
Boys, knock it off.

The best solution is either a hipshot tremsetter, or just adding 2 more springs to increase the tension. Both will allow you to use the trem but both will make the trem feel extremely heavy to use
As someone who strongly considered buying something of the sort and given up on the idea, I'm just trying to add some hopefully helpful input and workaround which has worked for me.

One thing is for sure, I'm also a lot happier with a stiffer spring setup and see the biggest problems with guitars setup with only two or three springs.
 
#37 ·
Personally I hate anything that interferes with the way it was originally designed to feel.
The presence of five spring hooks is a big hint at how they were designed to feel. Add to that various string gauges, differing preferences between a flat picker and a shredder, lots of room for natural variance from player to player.

You do guitar setups all the time with a wide range of customer selectable options for a very good reason and that's what keeps them happy; that their guitar is setup for their personal requirements and not a universal standard.
 
#38 ·
The spring claw was designed with 5 hooks because Fender [I believe] always used 5 springs from inception. Yes, it gives plenty of flexibility in feel, gauges you can use, tunings, etc. but I'm specifically referring to how Ibanez has always designed their production guitars setup with 3 standard springs. Some artist models like Korns would have high tension springs, several J Customs had high tension, some had milled instead of cast blocks, there has been variation. But the extreme majority with extremely rare exception, a standard Ibanez since the 80's shipped with 3 standard tension springs, and that is the feel I'm talking about. Edge, Lo Pro, EP, until you get to these ZPS units where only 2 springs work in the setup. And they chose springs with tension that are similar in feel to what you would find on the rest.
 
#40 ·
All my Strats came with 3 springs from the shop, I don't regularly inspect Fenders in the shop to see how many springs they come with but I think for the most part it's 3? I'm with Rich, I like having 3 standard tension springs and having the bridge floating nicely, easy to setup and feels amazing. I have the Tremol-no if I need to temporarily turn it into a hardtail and that works really well, so long as you fit it and set it up right (can be a bit finicky to get it right at first) it won't affect the feel or tuning stability.

I don't really want to mess with the Jem 777 30th so I haven't removed the backstop and put in a Tremol-no but I've thought about it a few times, it's very useful. The Tremol-no could be improved too though, the concept is spot on but the execution could be improved on, since it effectively relies on the friction of the screw on the shaft to hold it in place. As a result it's quite easy to lose a hand screw if you leave them in with ful floating mode, since when in full floating mode they aren't tightened and can work loose during a set, the other option is to use the allen key screws and to tape it off, but then you lose the convenience of being able to switch it between songs.
 
#43 ·
...I like having 3 standard tension springs and having the bridge floating nicely, easy to setup and feels amazing.
It's so nice that the options are there for us to dial in exactly what we like and I think that most players are like you and do prefer 3 springs, although I know there are others like me who prefer the feel of 4 springs, which works great too.
 
#45 ·
You could have just asked here about contacting Ibanez to get one and I would have posted that without you making alot of wasted phone calls.

I never had an original next to unbranded to see if that back rib was the same on both and it was just the angle in the 30ths that created the problem. Otherwise they looked identical.

He sold out.
 
#48 ·
Finally I got my hands on one..
I've Been trying to spot one with a good price under 100 usd but that was nearly impossible, usually the price was in the 200 usd range..
So I kept raiding Jem sellers on Reverb with private messages asking them if they are interested in selling the Backstop alone.
Most of them agreed but they asked 200-250 for it.
till a few weeks back this man agreed ..and all what he asked for was a 100 usd. even though he was a vintage guitar seller and he know what that actually worth for.
He informed that the backstop is fully functional which was installed on an 87 jem I guess.
The only problem with it is that it needed some cleaning (check the pics and let me know how do you suggest to clean this) and the rubber pad was missing.
- do you think that's a problem?
- can I just install the Backstop without the rubber pad?
- or I might use the square rubber pads the came with the esp arming adjuster since I have a couple of those.

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So.. Now what I need to know is this: as I'm going to set that backstop it's gonna load some counter tension on the springs and that for sure would effect the the neck relief in some way or another.. so in what order the set up should go?
For my own opinion, I think it should go like this :
1-Install the backstop and set it up ( let is settle for a day or two)
2-Check the neck relief and do any necessary adjustments if needed
3-Adjust Action
4-Adjust Intonation

What do you think ?

leave any comments or advice and about how to set the backstop and how to set the the guitar after I install the backstop, I know this is a matter of taste.. as most of us play their guitars in different settings…but just share your thoughts with me and I'm sure they gonna be a lot helpful

Thanks
 
#49 ·
sounds like a plan. Not so sure it's going to have any noticeable difference in you neck relief. I've seen them set up 2 different ways. One way is the way you described, The other is where the nylon pads are only touching the bridge block enough so that your eyes can see it's touching. So it's not really doing anything but preventing the bridge from dropping out of tune if you lower your E to a D (if your backstops tension is strong enough). I tried that but didn't like it, it made it feel less natural.

Your way is the way I wound up using it. I didn't have to make much adjustments after it settled, just small things. But I did wind up taking it out though. It doesn't feel the same. It was a freeing feeling not having it anymore lol. I wound up putting a tremolno in there.


BTW: Cornbread has one up for sale in the "For Sales" area of the forum if anyone wants it.
 
#52 ·
There wasn't much info in there, i think ill try the method described in the manual or this method, which i used on my ibanez with the ESP arming adjuster, which i think is more practical.
if you wanna watch skip to 16:00 because the guy filming was just setting his trem angle then he will get into setting the (goldo blackbox) a unit similar to the ESP arming adjuser.



Thanks
 
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