1986 Roadstar II RG410 - Worth Resto Effort? - Jemsite
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post #1 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-24-2014, 03:49 AM Thread Starter
 
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1986 Roadstar II RG410 - Worth Resto Effort?

Well, first things first. I got this guitar from my uncle who came across it at a yard sale. Knowing I'm an "Ibby" guy and it was fairly cheap ($20?), he scooped it up for me. I've done a bit of Google research & read a few Jemsiter opinions of these early RG's, but I know these opinions & values vary widely between models, years, condition, et cetera. Moreso than simply asking for your dollar-for-dollar value/resale opinions...I'm more interested in the "worth" of investing needed parts versus the "generally expected" overall playability, rarity, model hierarchy, and basically considering that I've never had the chance to actually play one...is this an opportunity to end up with a killer; often overlooked guitar, or is it closer to a money pit to, at best...end up with a polished Squier/Gio level guitar?

Although I've done it many times in the past, I'm not interested in refinishing the body or anything drastically cosmetic. This includes re-fretting & so forth...though the frets are in decent shape & I'm definitely comfortable with a level/crown. While I would obviously want to get it as original as possible...there are certain parts that I know this guitar requires that I'm unsure as to how passionate I'll want to be when it comes to sourcing them out. I'll elaborate a bit.

First & foremost is the OE Edge. The mounting studs were included with the guitar, & I have a bunch of spare claws, springs, screws, and whatnot. All I would require is the Edge unit itself (Black in 86, or chrome?), and the tremolo arm which is rarely included in internet-type transactions. The locking nut was not included either, but sourcing a Gotoh or similar nut assembly is not a big deal to me. Actually, after I posted this thread....I checked my parts box & had forgotten that I DO have the original locknut itself, just missing the 3 pads and 1 mounting screw. I'm not sure if the nut should be 42 or 43, so in the event I have a hard time sourcing a new one, I could always just purchase a new set of pads & screws.

Speaking of the aforementioned "certain" parts...the friggin neck plate is missing! More of a pita than anything else, & the fact that it'll never sport the original serial number...which is a bummer from a "collector/value" perspective. I did find a few neck plates on the bay from 80's Roadstars, which are the same MIJ plate with the exception of the accurate serial number. In the meantime, any standard neck plate will suffice. Lastly are those awesome "V-Shaped" strap mounts that came on these & other 80's Ibbys. As some of you may know from experience, these come up for sale & laughable prices considering what they are. Again...Strat strap mounts or a Cliplock will suffice for the time being.

I DO have both rear cavity covers, original pots, pup ring (original is black - chrome pictured is a different one), jack & jack mount, & tuner keys. The pup included was a mid-80's Seymour Duncan Full Shred, wound by whoever the "Abigail Ybarra" of the Duncan shop was at the moment; as the name escapes me while I type this. While I was super excited about this, I wired it into another guitar and while It's not reading an open-circuit, the output is barely audible. Either I screwed up, or the PUP is shot. I've wired pups dozens of times, but then again...I have'nt had a chance to investigate & double-check my work. FWIW, the original Roadstar pickup isn't super important to me; and could always be scooped in the future.

So...I apologize for the full background report, but I always try to be as descriptive as possible if I'm to expect an accurate reply from the various experts & Jemsiters to whom I'm inquiring.

I did the best I could to capture any & all issues. There is a typical neck-joint crack in the body, but I'm not worried as it appears to be paint-deep. Compared to the other Ibbys I've owned & experienced, the miniscule hairline cracks at the locknut mount are actually relatively small, and well within CA clue repair range. I really wish the logo wasn't so damaged, and while I have experience printing & installing waterslide decals...I'd be afraid it would do more harm than good as far as future value is concerned. FWIW It appears to have been originally laid on top of the final finish, as opposed to being under the clearcoat.

So, considering everything thus far....if It was your guitar; what would you do? I'm asking everyone from the few Roadstar RG hardcoare fans that dwell here, all the way to someone who has nothing more than a technical/value standpoint. Obviously including all those who can contribute opinions they've formed from personally owning/playing these types of guitars in the past.

Thank you all for reading all of this, & for any insight you may provide! I hope you all have a Merry Christmas, or whatever holiday floats your boat!!

*Pics in the next post*

EDIT - Off topic, but I thought it would be helpful to include a link to a few builds I posted here a few years ago in order to help you guys gauge my abilities & whatnot, as it relates to the effort required to correctly complete said project. Enjoy. (Jem Clone, Evil Fabric RG, & DY Resto projects inside link) - http://www.jemsite.com/forums/f21/a-...dy-131111.html

Last edited by Uncle Jay; 12-24-2014 at 04:08 AM.
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post #2 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-24-2014, 03:52 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 1986 Roadstar II RG410 - Worth Resto Effort?











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post #3 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-24-2014, 03:54 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 1986 Roadstar II RG410 - Worth Resto Effort?









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post #4 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-24-2014, 03:55 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 1986 Roadstar II RG410 - Worth Resto Effort?





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post #5 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-24-2014, 11:14 AM
 
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Re: 1986 Roadstar II RG410 - Worth Resto Effort?

I love the RG410's & RS410's. This year neck is great. Thinks to consider.

Value would be about $200 - $300 after it is playable. Most people buy them to sell the edges and part out the rest. So it's not a $1000 guitar.

How bad are the neck pocket cracks? - that one looks like more than a paint crack in the pictures. However, you said it looked OK so it may just be the pic.

Are the trem post holes in good shape? - they look good. You want to make sure the trem won't move around.

The neck looks serviceable - frets look good. I would look at Rich's guide on repairing the locking stem area. Treat the locking nut area, sand it down, and apply some tung oil.

I had a red one and it had chrome hardware and a black pickup ring. The strap holders and neck plate are not original.

The locking nut is a 42 mm and the fretboard should be a 12" radius. This may be the hardest part to find. If you couldn't find one, you could use a standard floyd one from warmoth. I think they are very close.

If you plan to not fix it, send me a message. I would be interested in taking on the project.
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post #6 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-24-2014, 11:47 AM
 
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Re: 1986 Roadstar II RG410 - Worth Resto Effort?

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Originally Posted by tomibanez View Post
I love the RG410's & RS410's. This year neck is great. Thinks to consider.

Value would be about $200 - $300 after it is playable. Most people buy them to sell the edges and part out the rest. So it's not a $1000 guitar.

How bad are the neck pocket cracks? - that one looks like more than a paint crack in the pictures. However, you said it looked OK so it may just be the pic.

Are the trem post holes in good shape? - they look good. You want to make sure the trem won't move around.

The neck looks serviceable - frets look good. I would look at Rich's guide on repairing the locking stem area. Treat the locking nut area, sand it down, and apply some tung oil.

I had a red one and it had chrome hardware and a black pickup ring. The strap holders and neck plate are not original.

The locking nut is a 42 mm and the fretboard should be a 12" radius. This may be the hardest part to find. If you couldn't find one, you could use a standard floyd one from warmoth. I think they are very close.

If you plan to not fix it, send me a message. I would be interested in taking on the project.
Tom is correct on all points here. The only difference I'll mention is that my '86 410 has a 430mm fretboard radius. The JPM 42mm nut will work, but good luck finding one.
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post #7 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-24-2014, 03:45 PM
 
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Re: 1986 Roadstar II RG410 - Worth Resto Effort?

Thanks for the correction. Are the RS necks 430 as well?
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post #8 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-24-2014, 07:28 PM
 
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Re: 1986 Roadstar II RG410 - Worth Resto Effort?

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Thanks for the correction. Are the RS necks 430 as well?
That one I really don't know....... I would imagine it's a 12"/305mm though.
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post #9 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-25-2014, 12:23 AM
 
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Re: 1986 Roadstar II RG410 - Worth Resto Effort?

A worthy project for sure. Personally, I would just make it into a solid player guitar, not necessarily a "restoration". My first Ibanez was a single humbucker '86 Roadstar II... but had the cheapo Powerocker instead of the Edge trem. Great playing guitar with an awesome neck.
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post #10 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-25-2014, 02:36 AM
 
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Re: 1986 Roadstar II RG410 - Worth Resto Effort?

Nice! I doubt it would have a real collectors value so I wouldn't mind it having not original parts etc... If you have the tuners, my guess is they are chrome and finding a matching chrome EDGE trem would be nice.
A tappable pickup with a push pull volume pot would add a little versatility and I think you would be OK.
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post #11 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-25-2014, 04:33 AM
 
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Re: 1986 Roadstar II RG410 - Worth Resto Effort?

Nice, Cherry Ice to boot! $20!! Man...

I have a 410 which I bought as neck and body only and did up. Sourced the tuners, nut, trem, and the rest out of my parts drawer. Turned into a nice axe.

When sourcing the trem, make sure it has a 41mm block. I lucked out and managed to find a barely used black Edge with a 41mm block not long after I bought the guitar carcass. Gotoh is also worthy if you can't get an Edge.

Couldn't find the original Top-Lok III nut (at a decent price anyway) so I bought a Gotoh 41mm, 16" radius. Works fine but had to be shimmed quite a bit and the break angle/profile isn't the same as original nut, so you may find you have to screw the string retainer quite far down.

I installed a PAF Pro I had lying around - pretty good! Throaty and clear, bit tamer than my other guitars because the pu is lower resistance, though I imagine it would sound pretty beastly with a hotter one.

So, that's just a long way of saying if I had another like that, I'd slap it together and then make whatever adjustments to get it the way I want (pickups etc.) and riff away .
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post #12 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-25-2014, 04:49 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 1986 Roadstar II RG410 - Worth Resto Effort?

We're all certainly seeing eye to eye here. And I've noticed the average auction listings for these since I've owned the guitar, so I've had a pretty accurate idea on where it would land price-wise. Although kinda cool, unique, & the stats of a very solid player...isn't nearly valuable or collectable enough to warrant a full-on refinish & going insane (and broke) hunting down every single period-correct original part. Having done many guitar builds, refins, & resto's over the years...I had never contemplated going even remotely that far, haha. But I apologize for the confusion, as I DID say the word resto; which could imply the possibility for a ground-up revamp. I was moreso inquiring as to whether or not the cost of it's integral parts, some "mod/upgrade" parts, fret treatment, set-up, et cetera...was worth the effort & dough as far as overall potential is concerned. Having never actually played one, I was curious if you guys would tell me it has the potential to be a killer player, or if it was like polishing a Squier...aka turd, haha. Jokes aside, I've actually set-up a few Squiers to perform like monsters, so that's subjective.

I started this thread shortly before going to work. Most of the morning was spent deciding what I wanted the end result to be & how far I wanted to go. After reading all of the positive comments mentioning how impressive these necks are, personally I've always wanted to wield a single HB guitar and dug how these 410's have an angled bridge was definitely appealing to me. And lastly, owning another axe with an OE Edge is never a regretful decision haha!

So today I ordered an OE Edge, trem bar, new push/pull pot, Seymour Duncan Custom, and an R42 locking nut. As I mentioned earlier, I actually still have the original baseplate & it's in pretty good condition. So in the event this nut fits less than perfect I can hopefully just swap over the new pads & be set. I do have the original tuners & string retainer, but I cleaned & bagged em a while back and can't recall if they're chrome or black. Trem studs are still solid & stable, however my new Edge also includes the studs (locking) but due to the surface mounted aspect...I'm unsure if the set-screws would even go low enough to function. Either way I'll be alright.

Applied a dab of CA glue in the nut crack just in case, but it's a reallyyy hairline little crack. Loosened the truss rod & after a quick inspection with both my notched, and straight edges....with the neck pretty balls-on flat, I have to admit that although the frets have certainly seen some play they're in much better shape than I would have guessed, level-wise.

You guys are awesome! Thank you for all the feedback thus far, and assisting me into a decision that I've become pretty excited about! Especially since the majority of my "projects" involve a ton of stripping, sanding, priming, clearing, wetsanding, et cetera...followed by the "virgin" assembly & setup which often comes with a few hurdles & tool throwing haha. I'm excited about this one because all the "annoying" parts are already done, and all I have to do is install a few parts & after some general "love" I'll be ready to set this little champ up & see what happens!
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post #13 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-25-2014, 05:03 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 1986 Roadstar II RG410 - Worth Resto Effort?

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Originally Posted by Ashurbanipal View Post
Nice, Cherry Ice to boot! $20!! Man...

I have a 410 which I bought as neck and body only and did up. Sourced the tuners, nut, trem, and the rest out of my parts drawer. Turned into a nice axe.

When sourcing the trem, make sure it has a 41mm block. I lucked out and managed to find a barely used black Edge with a 41mm block not long after I bought the guitar carcass. Gotoh is also worthy if you can't get an Edge.

Couldn't find the original Top-Lok III nut (at a decent price anyway) so I bought a Gotoh 41mm, 16" radius. Works fine but had to be shimmed quite a bit and the break angle/profile isn't the same as original nut, so you may find you have to screw the string retainer quite far down.

I installed a PAF Pro I had lying around - pretty good! Throaty and clear, bit tamer than my other guitars because the pu is lower resistance, though I imagine it would sound pretty beastly with a hotter one.

So, that's just a long way of saying if I had another like that, I'd slap it together and then make whatever adjustments to get it the way I want (pickups etc.) and riff away .

Whoa, haha I always just assumed it was CAR or just an old red. Having never seen the majority of the "cooler" Ibby colors in person, I never put two & two together. Thanks for pointing that out!

Also, I wasn't aware of the need to have a specific block size! I just re-checked the listing, and although it's very detailed it doesn't mention the block size. I bought it from a guy that I'm sure most of you guys see on "those" auction sites always parting out Ibanez's & whatnot. I've scooped a bunch of stuff from him in the past and I've always been happy as far as accurate descriptions go. It IS black, and will need a slight cleaning but the knife edges appear flawless. Besides it showing a little age, I don't know if it was from an 88, 94, or 2005 haha. I have a cosmo Edge in my Jem build, but I'm pretty sure it's a somewhat newer one. But hopefully in the event I have an issue, I'll be able to swap between them.

Out of curiosity, why does this model prefer that block size? Is it because it's surface mounted, or is it only an issue when attempting significant dive's or pull-up's?

Haha posts like yours are EXACTLY why I wanted to start this thread. No matter how much reading is done & how much you think you know...you just fired out a nice assortment of information that is both helpful & news to me. Thanks again!
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post #14 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-25-2014, 11:42 AM
 
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Re: 1986 Roadstar II RG410 - Worth Resto Effort?

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Originally Posted by Uncle Jay View Post
Whoa, haha I always just assumed it was CAR or just an old red. Having never seen the majority of the "cooler" Ibby colors in person, I never put two & two together. Thanks for pointing that out!

Also, I wasn't aware of the need to have a specific block size! I just re-checked the listing, and although it's very detailed it doesn't mention the block size. I bought it from a guy that I'm sure most of you guys see on "those" auction sites always parting out Ibanez's & whatnot. I've scooped a bunch of stuff from him in the past and I've always been happy as far as accurate descriptions go. It IS black, and will need a slight cleaning but the knife edges appear flawless. Besides it showing a little age, I don't know if it was from an 88, 94, or 2005 haha. I have a cosmo Edge in my Jem build, but I'm pretty sure it's a somewhat newer one. But hopefully in the event I have an issue, I'll be able to swap between them.

Out of curiosity, why does this model prefer that block size? Is it because it's surface mounted, or is it only an issue when attempting significant dive's or pull-up's?

Haha posts like yours are EXACTLY why I wanted to start this thread. No matter how much reading is done & how much you think you know...you just fired out a nice assortment of information that is both helpful & news to me. Thanks again!
Hey Uncle Jay, Merry Christmas! I'm glad your going through with this.......These are truly some of the most under rated guitars Ibanez ever made. You'll find out soon enough that these oiled necks are an absolute dream to play on. I currently have 11 RG's, my 410 is the "lowest grade" of all of them- yet it gets the vast majority of my attention and time playing.

The trem block is taller (as your noted) because of the surface mount. A standard block will not be long enough to attach your trem springs. Another thing to note is that the original studs are about 10mm longer that the standard lockers. The originals do NOT have a locking screw.

I would hit that neck joint crack with some thin CA during the rebuild too.


'86 edge stud on left-


'86 Edge compared to standard Edge- '86 on the left


....And just because I like posting pics of mine....LOL
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post #15 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-25-2014, 12:48 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 1986 Roadstar II RG410 - Worth Resto Effort?

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Originally Posted by RGTFanatic View Post
Hey Uncle Jay, Merry Christmas! I'm glad your going through with this.......These are truly some of the most under rated guitars Ibanez ever made. You'll find out soon enough that these oiled necks are an absolute dream to play on. I currently have 11 RG's, my 410 is the "lowest grade" of all of them- yet it gets the vast majority of my attention and time playing.

The trem block is taller (as your noted) because of the surface mount. A standard block will not be long enough to attach your trem springs. Another thing to note is that the original studs are about 10mm longer that the standard lockers. The originals do NOT have a locking screw.

I would hit that neck joint crack with some thin CA during the rebuild too.
RGT (Ryc?)

Thanks, man...Merry Christmas to you as well! I'm not a frequent poster, yet I visit this forum multiple times daily; especially on slow work nights haha. As such, I'm very familiar with many of the beautiful collections & encyclopedic knowledge of many of the "regular" members. I've seen & oggled your 410 on at least a dozen separate occasions over the years haha.

And I agree completely about the crack. Earlier I gave the neck an analytical once-over finally, since the majority of the time I've owned this guitar it has been hanging on my wall with no real definitive plans to go ahead with a resurrection. Through that time, I can't recall giving it any real attention to detail. I'm next going to give some attention to the finish crack; and I say finish crack as I have removed the neck and have been unable to see any evidence whatsoever that the crack has penetrated any deeper, at least not clean through to the inside neck joint. And after that, I figure it wouldn't hurt to put the body through a nice random orbital regiment of rubbing & polishing compounds, swirl remover, & a little wax for the sake of small aesthetic improvements.

Until you posted that comparison picture, It didn't register with me just how much of a difference there actually was between the depths of these blocks...and furthermore that it wouldn't just impact something like motion, but would render installing the trem implausible overall!

I guess the only logical questions would be as to whether or not that Edge you mention was only available specifically in 86, or did that long block Edge see a longer production run? This would obviously directly effect my chances of rectifying this issue without prayer & perpetually open wallet haha! And lastly, I assume these blocks would perhaps be interchangeable as far as the machine mounting screw holes lining up? Even if so, it would still lead me on a brutal quest to source out a super-specific sized compatible block, & the inevitable demanded cost. Might as well go see if that's something that Rich happens to stock!

I'm kind of ready to throw my keyboard, but I appreciate being made aware of that information now rather than on assembly day hahaha! Thanks again!

*EDIT* - Rich says the 41mm blocks are discontinued, as I kind of expected them to be. Damn...there's a good chance that 10mm may be the difference with this project.

Last edited by Uncle Jay; 12-25-2014 at 01:02 PM.
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