Any way to retrofit piezos in a lo-pro? - Piezo retrofit for - Jemsite
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-16-2002, 02:31 AM Thread Starter
 
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Any way to retrofit piezos in a lo-pro? - Piezo retrofit for

I was thinking about getting one of the Ibanez 1017XL baritones, but I'd really like to have 13-pin piezo capability in this guitar. *I think that if I could get some piezo saddles installed, I could use RMC electronics to get the 13-pin split happening.

I've been told that Ibanez doesn't sell the double edge bridge saddles as replacement parts...so unless someone can tell me otherwise, presumably that's not an option.

Perhaps the Ibanez piezo saddles might be had from L.R. Baggs or from some dealer? *Has anyone done custom piezo saddles for these bridges? *Are the saddles similar to anything more standard like Strat saddles such that something else could be modified to fit?

Any other ideas on how I might do this? *Has anyone here done it, or do you know of anyone who has piezoified a lo-pro?

As a less-preferred option, I guess I could install an internal Roland hex magnetic pickup...this would be not nearly as useful, but if it was the only practical way to get 13-pin output it might make sense. *Does anyone see any barriers to that installation, such as other items in the way where I'd need to install the Roland parts?
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-16-2002, 06:34 AM
 
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Any way to retrofit piezos in a lo-pro?

I'd search the old threads this has been asked before, but as of now, you cannot retrofit piezos to the Edge.

THREAD CLOSED

oops, I can't do that hehehehe :biggrin:
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-16-2002, 07:21 AM Thread Starter
 
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Any way to retrofit piezos in a lo-pro?

I've read those old threads, probably, and they were consistent with what I'd heard, that the double edge is not available as an aftermarket part, and that it would be difficult to install. *What I was asking goes beyond that to whether anyone has thought about or undertaken other means to retrofit piezos. *This might include modifying Strat saddles, making custom saddles, and so forth.

If anyone could link me to a good diagram of one of the Ibanez saddles, that might help...I would be better positioned to figure out how difficult it would be to make one with a piezo, add a piezo to one, or modify a piezo saddle that was manufactured for another use to suit the purpose.
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-18-2002, 06:44 AM
 
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Any way to retrofit piezos in a lo-pro?

Oops. I thought you meant something else. Well, I know Graphtech makes the saddles for the Wilky, Strat, and Paul, but I haven't seen a FR style bridge yet, and I haven't heard of anyone trying to do it by retrofitting strat style saddles to an Edge. Sounds like it'd be kinda hairy.

You might want to check out RMC, they may have something that would work.
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-18-2002, 12:58 PM
 
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Any way to retrofit piezos in a lo-pro?

Below are two threads dealing with this topic. *The first on installing piezo saddles on a fixed bridge 7 string, the second on installing a 13-pin Roland pup for 7 strings:

Thread 1 - Fixed Bridge Piezo Saddles
Thread 2 - Roland-Ready 7-String

As the first thread points out, there are several solutions for fixed bridge, strat-type saddles available that can work on a 7 string fixed bridge, but I've yet to see any Floyd replacement piezo saddles marketed yet by any of the major piezo players (Fishman, L.R. Baggs, RMC). *

I've actually installed a standard Roland GK-2AH on my Carvin DC727. *Other than having to adjust the height and file a little off of the little screw that secures the actual cable to the pup housing (the low B was buzzing against it), it's working fine for me - of course I only have coverage of the EADGBE strings but other than that, it's working nicely. *

Let us know if you find any new information as I'm sure many of us would be very interested. *It's always baffled me why Ibanez doesn't make the Double-Edge 7 bridge available in the states as an after-market accessory. *They've discontinued the only guitar with which it was standard (the RG2027) so the argument can't be fear of canibalizing sales of that guitar. *It seems to me that they could yield some nice margins on these bridges as there is no competition and I think a number of people with RG7620s and Universes would buy/install them - even for a hefty price. *The design is obviously done, manufacturing ability already developed. *I can't believe marketing expenses would be that significant. *What am I missing???

Randy
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-18-2002, 02:11 PM
 
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Any way to retrofit piezos in a lo-pro?

This is a tougie. *
Even the guys at RMC (who do BMC's gear) told me I was INSANE! *
We mock what we don't understand.

Suggestion:
Try finding a 2027 (or get a 2127 from overseas).
Mount XL neck on 2027.
Refinish of 2027 to XL color(s) is optional.

You'll have piezo, but not MIDI.
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-18-2002, 03:38 PM
 
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Any way to retrofit piezos in a lo-pro?

Mounting an XL neck on a standard body will not work. The intonation would be way off. On the XL series, the bridge and pickups are moved to compensate for the longer scale. This way, a 27" scale guitar can fit into a case designed for a 25 1/2" scale guitar (UV1000C).

Cheers,
Butch
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-18-2002, 04:10 PM
 
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Any way to retrofit piezos in a lo-pro?

Heh heh....oops. * I thought maybe Ibanez just did the extra length on the neck.
Oh well. *I guess we're screwed...at least until we see spy photos of Mr. Ibanez having lunch with the BMC guys at the RMC factory :-)

Bob1- give a call to the guys at BMC and/or L.R.Baggs and/or Fishman. *They're all SUPER-cool and can probably steer you in the right direction.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-18-2002, 04:44 PM Thread Starter
 
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Any way to retrofit piezos in a lo-pro?

Yeah, for some reason, all the guys I've met in the piezo business seem to be these ultra-cool guys. *The Fishman guy is about the nicest guy you could run into at NAMM and even looks like he's having fun on Sunday while hauling the booths to the loadout. *I don't think I was able to tempt him to add MIDI to a National Tricone as a production item, however, but I think he liked me for being crazy too.

It seems like it would be relatively easy to handle the electronics for the Ibanez by using RMC's internal item that mixes piezo and magnetics and provides the various outputs needed. *If everything can be made to fit inside the guitar, the hard part seems to be getting some piezo saddles to fit the 1017 bridge; routing the wires from the piezo saddles into the body should not be a big problem.

So there's something I hope you guys can help me with in my own quest for a midified Ibanez baritone with piezos and 13-pin output: I need the dimensions of the 1017XL bridge saddles, ideally a good diagram, but I would welcome partial information, even the approximate length and width as measured while installed in a guitar with a finely-marked ruler. This would start me on the path to finding some piezo saddles that might be modified to fit the 1017XL.

Another piece of information that would help would be from someone familiar with both the 1017XL and other models with a similar bridge: do the saddles on the baritones appear to have the same dimensions as the saddles on the other models? *If so, perhaps I could at least track down an instrument with the saddles as used on the 1017XL at a local dealer (Los Angeles) so I can get a close look and measure for myself. *Having a good idea of the dimensions and how it looks would allow me to estimate whether saddles can be made with a reasonable effort.

My expectation is that adapting some other piezo saddles is probably doable with some limited resort to a machine shop. *Normally, the critical shapes on saddles are not very complex. *Also, since it appears that the Conklin shop can do floating bridges with piezos, and since I don't think anyone makes an off-the-shelf piezo kit for any floating bridge, it seems that Conklin is making or having made piezo saddles for some floating bridge and might be convinced (their prices are pretty steep, unfortunately) to do the same as a retrofit for an Ibanez bridge. *But this is not work that needs to be done by a luthier who has a large marketing overhead to support.
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-22-2002, 01:58 PM
 
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Any way to retrofit piezos in a lo-pro?

Quote:
Bob1 on 4:44 pm on April 18, 2002
Another piece of information that would help would be from someone familiar with both the 1017XL and other models with a similar bridge: do the saddles on the baritones appear to have the same dimensions as the saddles on the other models? *If so, perhaps I could at least track down an instrument with the saddles as used on the 1017XL at a local dealer (Los Angeles) so I can get a close look and measure for myself. *Having a good idea of the dimensions and how it looks would allow me to estimate whether saddles can be made with a reasonable effort.
I believe the Lo-Pro on the 1077XL is exactly the same as a standard RG7... And as Butch pointed out, you really can't get an XL neck and plonk it onto a 2027 body... the intonation would REALLY be off... I think some serious R&D went into the XL series, and it's not as simple as it sounds...
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-22-2002, 02:06 PM
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Any way to retrofit piezos in a lo-pro?

The only difference of an XL Lo Pro is it's in Powder Coat finish.
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-22-2002, 02:34 PM Thread Starter
 
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Any way to retrofit piezos in a lo-pro?

Well, at least that seems to give the option of buying a spare set of Lo-Pro saddles and modifying one set. *

One question remains about the superficial appearance of the Double Edge saddles that could be answered by someone familiar with both the Double Edge and the Lo-Pro: do they appear to have the same external dimensions as the Lo-Pro ones where they visibly mate with the bridges? *

If they do fit into the bridges identically, if I could get ahold of a set of Double Edge saddles, they might drop into the Lo-Pro on the 1077XL and it'd be a matter of routing the wires and doing the electronics.
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bridge saddles , double edge bridge , edge bridge , fixed bridge , floating bridges , strat style , string fixed bridge

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