Changing pickups in S540 - Jemsite
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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-11-2018, 09:19 AM Thread Starter
 
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Need help with this HSH diagram

NOTE: I believe these wire codes are correct for modern Bill Lawrence humbuckers (Bill & Becky, not Bill Lawrence USA, which are different).

Bill Lawrence Wiring & Tech Info

Wiring & Tech Info
White = SS positive lead for South Coil (+ when used as regular humbucker)
Green = SF ground for the South Coil
Red = NS positive lead for the North Coil
Black = NF ground for North Coil (- when used as regular humbucker)
Blue= Common ground

Grounding the green/red combination shuts off the North Coil, which works out fine for the neck position. I'm not sure to go about shutting off the South Coil for the bridge in order to have outside coils working in positions 2 and 4. In most detailed wiring diagrams you see the NF/SF tied together, but BL has the green/red or SF/NS tied together. What gives there?

Not sure if I have all the info need to get the help I'm seeking, but hopefully someone here can spot any problems and suggest corrections as needed. Guitar is an HSH Ibanez (S540 from 199 and I am upgrading the pickups to Bill Lawrence (wildepickups.com). I've made a rough drawing, but my uncertainty is with splitting the bridge humbucker and leaving on the outer coil.

Neck = L500XL
Middle = L280SM
Bridge = L500XL


Here is the configuration I want:


Bill Lawrence humbuckers have the South Coil on top and North on bottom.



Here is my drawing:


What I think I have wrong is this: I don't believe this wiring scheme will shut off the inner (S) coil for the bridge pickup. Is this drawing correct?

Thanks in advance!

Last edited by Tone Meister; 06-18-2018 at 03:54 PM.
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-18-2018, 03:50 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Changing pickups in S540

Anyone?
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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-18-2018, 04:06 PM
 
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Re: Changing pickups in S540

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tone Meister View Post
Anyone?
https://guitarelectronics.com/wdu-hsh5l11-01/

Why try and reinvent the wheel.
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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-18-2018, 04:35 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Changing pickups in S540

Quote:
Originally Posted by sepulchrave View Post
https://guitarelectronics.com/wdu-hsh5l11-01/

Why try and reinvent the wheel.

I reckon you were so bent on quickly providing me with a snarky reply that you failed to read my post. And I did see that drawing and dismissed it after reading the reference to coil TAP. What I'm doing here is coil splitting humbuckers, not coil tapping a single coil. Using the incorrect terminology and the fact that drawing shows NF/SF tied together gave me pause.

I'm a novice at pickup science, so I'm not sure about how to turn off the inside coil (splitting) on the bridge humbucker. You'll pardon me for providing as much detail as I could; I thought it might be helpful to those who offered assistance.
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-18-2018, 05:42 PM
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Re: Changing pickups in S540

If these were Dimarzio's I could answer but I'm blind to others. But the single coil in an HSH setup needs to be reverse polarity or it will be out of phase with the split humbucker coils. And you're not turning off one coil, you're only pulling the signal from one coil. This may just apply to Dimarzio's which are activating the inner coils.

Ibanez does the HSH backward where you want the outer coil active instead of the inner coil, which means they turn the neck pickup upside down so the inner coil is the one active.
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-18-2018, 05:42 PM
 
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Re: Changing pickups in S540

I'not an expert too, but your question challenged me, so my thoughts on this.

I'm not so convinced about the BL schema, but the man surely has some knowledge in the matter.
I've checked other schemas and the basic principle is to short one of the coils to ground. And following this idea, yes (to me) you are right it always shut down the N coil.
Basically the stupid things is to turn the hum upside-down; the other is to reverse the hot and ground wires (e.g. the hot goes with the bare etc..)

I've checked an RG and an S and yes, S coil in Bridge seem predominant and that can explain why you can't get "that" strat sound with an hum in the bridge. (I confess that if I want 'that' sound, I use the strat...lucky me!)

Given these, you can have a problem with a 5 lever switch inside the S540; check well before if it can fit or you'll need to use the plain Ibanez selector.
Btw, BL XL are great!
Anyway have fun and keep rocking!
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-18-2018, 05:57 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Changing pickups in S540

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
Ibanez does the HSH backward where you want the outer coil active instead of the inner coil, which means they turn the neck pickup upside down so the inner coil is the one active. But the single coil in an HSH setup needs to be reverse polarity or it will be out of phase with the split humbucker coils.

These are Zebra pattern, so flipping them isn't an option. The middle pickup is indeed specific to the middle position. I selected a Bill Lawrence L280SM (single, middle) for the middle position.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock63 View Post
I'not an expert too, but your question challenged me, so my thoughts on this.

I'm not so convinced about the BL schema, but the man surely has some knowledge in the matter.
I've checked other schemas and the basic principle is to short one of the coils to ground. And following this idea, yes (to me) you are right it always shut down the N coil.
Basically the stupid things is to turn the hum upside-down; the other is to reverse the hot and ground wires (e.g. the hot goes with the bare etc..)

I've checked an RG and an S and yes, S coil in Bridge seem predominant and that can explain why you can't get "that" strat sound with an hum in the bridge. (I confess that if I want 'that' sound, I use the strat...lucky me!)

Given these, you can have a problem with a 5 lever switch inside the S540; check well before if it can fit or you'll need to use the plain Ibanez selector.
Btw, BL XL are great!
Anyway have fun and keep rocking!

The zebra pattern prevents me from flipping one pickup. I'm a Strat guy also, and I'm not necessarily looking for vintage Strat quack, per se. It's just the outer neck coil will be fuller and the outer bridge coil will be, well, Strattier!


Hum canceling isn't too much of a concern since the L280SM single coil is "noise free" and so are the individual coils in the humbuckers. Good news is the original Ibanez switch will work fine. Just need to learn how to "turn off" that inner (S) coil on the bridge pickup. I think I'm close otherwise.
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-18-2018, 06:08 PM
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Re: Changing pickups in S540

Ordering them the right way was crucial, especially if they have logo's. Without logo it doesn't matter which way you turn them as long as the right coil is active.
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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-18-2018, 06:20 PM
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Re: Changing pickups in S540

AFAIK, and I am no expert, but with Dimarzio you can only activate one coil, you can't choose which of the 2. Only one coil can be split. That is what a coil tap does, taps that one coil. That's why you flip a neck hum upside down. So if you have zebras you have to order the neck zebra with the colors coordinated so it's the way you want it when flipped, and of course the reverse polarity single. I've installed alot of sets in all color combinations usually 1/2 - 1 - 2/1, like a DNA or a GMC would be.

If the BL's are the same you can't just choose to activate either coil, only 1 coil can be active when tapped, and the coil has to be oriented in the guitar so that it's the right coil in the layout, which also means it had to be ordered in the right color layout.
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-18-2018, 06:27 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Changing pickups in S540

I ordered the pickups as a set, and ordered his middle pickup so the setup will work correctly. And while I am most certainly a complete novice with regard to pickup science, I'm all but certain that either coil can be shunted leaving the other active. I see this mentioned all the time over at the Seymour Duncan forums, I just don't know how to do it myself.
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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-18-2018, 06:31 PM
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Re: Changing pickups in S540

I'm equally as certain if it's a Dimarzio only one coil can be active, you can't choose between the two by the way it's wired which is why the neck pickup is flipped, or the pickup is ordered with the correct coil tapped, like any non JEM HSH, the wires leave the same spot on the pickup because the pickup is ordered wired so the correct coil is tapped.

If the SD forum has experts in BL's then your thread should be there. Or a BL forum.
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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-18-2018, 07:16 PM
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On on a phone so can't see diagrams well. But if you take the linked diagram from post 3 and swap the sets of NS it will do what you want but likely be out of phase in position 2/4. Did you try that? Which might give you more of the sound you want anyways.
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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-18-2018, 07:23 PM
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Color codes reference


DiMarzio and all 4 wire PUs can be split any way you want since each pair is one pole
http://www.dimarzio.com/sites/defaul...eriesrcoil.pdf
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-18-2018, 07:39 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Changing pickups in S540

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
I'm equally as certain if it's a Dimarzio only one coil can be active, you can't choose between the two by the way it's wired which is why the neck pickup is flipped, or the pickup is ordered with the correct coil tapped, like any non JEM HSH, the wires leave the same spot on the pickup because the pickup is ordered wired so the correct coil is tapped.

If the SD forum has experts in BL's then your thread should be there. Or a BL forum.
I posed my question here because the guitar is an Ibanez and this site is specifically for Ibanez guitars. To me, it stands to reason that I'm not the first to want an alternate wiring scheme on a basic pickup layout. Unless, of course, you're suggesting that my questions here are unwelcome?

I'm still quite sure that any humbucker with 4 wires can be coil split to either coil, but I'll stand corrected by the experts. Check out these links.

Guitar Wiring Site - Coil Cut Switching

Guitar Wiring Site
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-18-2018, 07:41 PM
 
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Re: Changing pickups in S540

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Originally Posted by Tone Meister View Post
I reckon you were so bent on quickly providing me with a snarky reply that you failed to read my post.
Absolutely not.

You can only work with what you have, and what you have is in that diagram I linked for you.

I've done it many times with a multitude of different pickups, most recently with a Dimarzio Evo neck pickup, a Jackson USA J90C bridge pickup and a Fender single coil in the middle. Sounded killer.
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hum canceling , middle pickup , pickup swap , rwrp , s540

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