Conklin might be a tad bit overpriced. - Jemsite
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post #1 of 75 (permalink) Old 01-02-2004, 12:54 PM Thread Starter
 
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Conklin might be a tad bit overpriced.

This is just something that came to my attention and due to the hight amount of discussion about 8 string guitars I thought I'd put it in.
I was under the impression that the Conklin New Century Series guitar prices that are listed on the website were list prices. So, the customer wouldn't actually pay that. But I was wrong, they are the normal price. So if any of you are considering getting an 8 string, remember this: You can get a bare bones 8 string Conklin for $2800, or you can get a custom Nevborn 8 string for $2800.
So that blew me away. I'm curious to know though, what do you guys think about the price and possible quality difference? Do think the Nevborn is crap and that the Conklin is really good? Or vice versa?
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post #2 of 75 (permalink) Old 01-02-2004, 01:35 PM
 
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I think that's a perfectly reasonable price for a limited production guitar. I know to the penny what it costs to make that sort of guitar and I can promise you that at $2800 no one's getting rich on these. I did a quick costing on what I could do one for and without getting too refined, I figured my selling price would have to be $3000.

By the way, anytime you see a price on a limited production instrument being sold directly from the builder, that will almost always be the actual price, not some fantasy MSRP like they use in the retail trade.
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post #3 of 75 (permalink) Old 01-02-2004, 01:41 PM Thread Starter
 
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So I assume your saying the Conklin is worth it. But if the Nevborn is the same price, and has nicer woods an construction, is it worth it? or is it n inferior instrument?

PS By the way, Nevborn is the luthier that built Meshuggah's guitars. But I'm not specifically talking about their guitars (Meshuggah's).
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post #4 of 75 (permalink) Old 01-02-2004, 01:52 PM
Ice
 
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hum

I have played Meshuggahs nevborns though and they are great. the thing I liked about nevborn, but I'm not sure they do this for public, possibly just artists. They sent the guys prototypes so to speak. They sent 2 guitars to play and check out, in turn the guys said I like this I don't like that can I get this and in the end you get a guitar exactly how you like it and have something to play in the meantime. I wouldn't spend 2800 on one though that's just ridiculous especially when you could get one from a local luthier in the 1000-1,750 range depending on what all you wanted. That's for basic wood like mahogany. Plus Ibanez just started building them custom shop so maybe they'll decide to grace the public with them even though they're not supposed to. I'm thinking if anything they will sell them overseas like all guitar companies good stuff.
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post #5 of 75 (permalink) Old 01-02-2004, 01:57 PM
 
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Re: hum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice
I would have to say the companies are raping you with profit. I have played Meshuggahs nevborns though and they are great. the thing I liked about nevborn, but I'm not sure they do this for public, possibly just artists. They sent the guys prototypes so to speak. They sent 2 guitars to play and check out, in turn the guys said I like this I don't like that can I get this and in the end you get a guitar exactly how you like it and have something to play in the meantime. I wouldn't spend 2800 on one though that's just ridiculous especially when you could get one from a local luthier in the 1000-1,750 range depending on what all you wanted. Plus Ibanez just started building them custom shop so maybe they'll decide to grace the public with them, but I doubt it I'm thinking if anything they will sell them overseas like all guitar companies good stuff.
Good god, if you're not going to tell us who you are and who you're touring with, don't use stories like "I've played Meshuggah's Nevborns" or "I was talking to Dino the other day and he was talking about the new 8-strings that Ibanez is making for Meshuggah" (which according to a posting from another Ibanez endorsee, may not be true, since he couldn't get an 8-string Ibanez, because they apparently don't make them).

And Jim Soloway has gained quite a trustworthy reputation on here, if he says that the companies are not ripping you off compared to what it costs them to make one, then I believe him.
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post #6 of 75 (permalink) Old 01-02-2004, 02:47 PM
 
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Preach on, Two Hands!
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post #7 of 75 (permalink) Old 01-02-2004, 03:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wordwolf
Preach on, Two Hands!
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post #8 of 75 (permalink) Old 01-02-2004, 03:24 PM
 
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Let me explain my thinking here.

First of all, if youíre expecting to sell several hundred of these, then you can build them to sell for a lot less, but Iím assuming that the market for 8 string guitars is extremely limited and thatís very prominent in my thinking.

Ice says he could get local luthiers to build him one in the $1,000 to $1750 range. Maybe he could, but I donít know a single reputable luthier in the US, Canada, or Western Europe who can build a new instrument from scratch for a $1000. Perhaps he lives somewhere where cost are much lower. But assuming he could find a luthier to do it, my next question would be what are you going to ask him to build?

This is not some variation on a Strat. Itís a completely unique concept and would have to be designed from the ground up. What material would you use? What shape and dimension would you use for the neck? And Iím not talking about the approximate shape. Itís not enough to say I want a U shape or a C shape. You have to be specific to the fraction of a millimeter. If you make the profile too thin at the edges itís going to twist. Make it too thick and itís going to be too hard to play. What shape does the peg head have to be. I know my standard 7 string head wonít work, so Iíd have to design one from scratch. All this design time costs money.

What construction methods are you going to use for the neck? Iíve just switched to a 3-piece maple laminate for my 7 strings because I didnít think the one piece was stiff enough, even with graphite reinforcement. How many experimental necks do you suppose youíre going to have to make before you get it right? Anyone want a free neck? I have one Iím about to put in the scrap pile because after being on a guitar for a month it never really stabilized. Itís just too flexible near the top of the fingerboard. Between the wood, the building and finishing, Iíve invested a lot of money in that neck, money that I can only get back from the other guitars that I sell. Building an 8 string, I would have to count on building at least one neck that doesnít work out. That has to be built into the price.

How about electronics? Which pickups are you going to use? Itís not like the market offers a huge choice in 8 string pickups and everything you can get is all going to require different routing. So are you going to build a different body to try every option? My first idea would be to build a single body with a large rout that would allow you to insert a separate block with the test pickups. That prototype would be scrap when youíre done. And what do you do with the pickups that donít workout? Itís not like thereís a red-hot resale market for them. I have about $2,000 in miscellaneous electronics sitting in a series of drawers here that I may or may not ever get to use. Those all have to be built into my prices somewhere.

And finally thereís the issue of profit. Let me put this as simply as I can. If thereís no profit in this, why bother? Itís not about ďcompanies are raping you with profitĒ. Thatís a ridiculous comment from someone who simply doesnít know any better. Itís about getting a fair return on your time and investment. Thatís what business is all about and make no mistake about it, building guitars is a business and a very difficult one at that. I just raised my own prices by $400 across the board. That makes my guitars $2400 for a 6 string and $2450 for a 7 string, and anyone who thinks that Iím raping them can go to someone else for their guitar because at $2000, I just couldnít make enough to both maintain the level of quality that I demand and actually make any money.
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post #9 of 75 (permalink) Old 01-02-2004, 05:40 PM
 
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To quote Snatch: Ice got proper ****ed by Jim.
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post #10 of 75 (permalink) Old 01-02-2004, 06:35 PM
Ice
 
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too

I"m not dissing conklin or Nevborn. I've never played an 8 string conklin, and yes I have played on Meshuggahs being I was on ozzfest the same year as they were so **** off two hands. I am saying for most people on here they want a simple RG style guitars but 8 string and this would be relatively cheap to do. If you get a nevborn or a conklin it's more like the BMW of guitars. They have a unique body, exotic woods, extremely complex necks being some are 7 piece and you're lucky to get 5 with other companies. I don't know how much wood pricing is different between here and over in europe but being that the 8 string bridge was posted in here being like 80bucks and you can get a set of pickups for 130 bucks at a store then say hardware is another 100 for everything that leaves a hell of a lot of money to get the guitar built. A block of wood is cheap going from scratch, and getting one made with a machine is still only what 300 tops. Then you have an oiled finish which isn't extravagant like a multi color stain. There's really a lot of $$ to think about there.

On to the Ibanez I don't know who your "Ibanez endorsee" is but he is wrong. ibanez made two 8 strings for Meshuggah already and they have them at the custom shop, or at least they still did in october and they're currently building Dino one. You people sure get anal when you don't know what the hell you are talking about and somebody else does.
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post #11 of 75 (permalink) Old 01-02-2004, 06:38 PM
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Re: too

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice
On to the Ibanez I don't know who your "Ibanez endorsee" is but he is wrong. ibanez made two 8 strings for Meshuggah already and they have them at the custom shop, or at least they still did in october and they're currently building Dino one. You people sure get anal when you don't know what the hell you are talking about and somebody else does.
These were in LA or Bensalem in october? What ibz shop is "currently building Dino one".

Lemme know as i'll gladly cross-check and put an end to this silly debate ...glen
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post #12 of 75 (permalink) Old 01-02-2004, 06:43 PM
Ice
 
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..

I didn't think they built anything in bensalem. The guitars were in Cali because dino played them when he went in to pickup his new ones. his BDay is in the begining of september and I talked to him shortly after that when he said he was going to pickup the new guitars. I called in October when the DC Ibanez was on Ebay with the missing parts that a guy found in a pawn shop thinking it was dino's stolen guitar. Dino said no he gave it to the guitarist in downset when he needed a guitar and the guy must of pawned it. He also said that when he went to pickup his new guitars they had two 8 strings that where just built for the meshuggah guys and they played amazing so he's getting one. He also said they had to put 2 bridges together to make it so I'm wonding what the bridge on these things look like.

When asked about them making the 8 string for the public since they are supposedly halting 7 string production he said it's just for endorsed artists. Also that the new 7 string bridge to his guess would be pretty rare since they are halting production on 7's except signature models and customs for mushroom head, korn, dino, meshuggah etc etc.
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post #13 of 75 (permalink) Old 01-02-2004, 07:16 PM
 
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Re: too

Quote:
Originally Posted by jemsite
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice
On to the Ibanez I don't know who your "Ibanez endorsee" is but he is wrong. ibanez made two 8 strings for Meshuggah already and they have them at the custom shop, or at least they still did in october and they're currently building Dino one. You people sure get anal when you don't know what the hell you are talking about and somebody else does.
These were in LA or Bensalem in october? What ibz shop is "currently building Dino one".

Lemme know as i'll gladly cross-check and put an end to this silly debate ...glen
Would'nt bother dude,we all know any self respecting artist would'nt mind explaining who they are,This guy sent me a dozen PM's and still did'nt answer a single f**king question i asked him ... The whole reason i went off for a break in the first place ... Name droppings great tho ;-)

Ice,who are ya? Put up or quite literally shut up ... I'm sick and tired of reading your cr*p

How's the custom guitars coming along

Regards and hope you had a good xmas and new year love and kisses

Rob

p.s. sorry Glen,had to get it off my chest ... I'll sit my suspension out quietly and be back there after
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post #14 of 75 (permalink) Old 01-02-2004, 07:30 PM
 
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Re: too

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice
you can get a set of pickups for 130 bucks at a store
Not for an 8-string
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post #15 of 75 (permalink) Old 01-02-2004, 07:39 PM
Ice
 
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blah

I didn't pm you a dozen times and you never asked me ****. Glen knows exactly what i do being I talked to him before I posted anything on here. As for the custom guitars I have an amazing T31 coming along soon the guy is trying to pick what wood he wants for the wings of the guitar right now though. I'm thinking Padauk or Korina as they both sound amazing and look beautiful. It's going to be gold hardware tune-o-matic with a piezo system and something along the lines of a JB/Jazz for humbuckers.
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