Damn American market.... - Page 2 - Jemsite
All Other Guitars (including Prestige) Discussion about other Ibanez Guitars not covered in the above topics. Includes J-Custom, USA-Custom, Prestige subforum.

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post #16 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-23-2007, 09:19 PM
 
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Re: Damn American market....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusfmm View Post

Just another reason why the title of this thread makes a lot of sense...
I'll do you a swap: you can have all the brand new (official & warrantied) J-Customs you want from over here, at the prices WE pay for them, if we Europeans can have PRS's, Gibsons, Mesa/Boogie etc at the price you guys pay for them....?

Deal? Didnt think so

J-Customs are great, but you're still better off getting them though unofficial channels. Ibanez would rape you sideways pricewise if they sold them officially over there, same as they do here. It's great to be able to try them out in the stores over here in Europe, but i still turn to Japan when i want to buy one.
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post #17 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-23-2007, 09:28 PM
 
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Re: Damn American market....

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Originally Posted by Phishphood42 View Post
If we got j customs in america we would have to pay out the ass for them, and Ibanez probably wouldn't let us import anymore. Its better this way

Besides, then everyone would have them and we j custom wouldn't be so much cooler than everyone else
I'm not sure I follow your logic. Why would the US be different to Europe? I've read a few comments from European people (actually, most from the UK) and I recall them mentioning they'd had to pay, if were to import something from Japan directly, something like 22% taxes. On top of that, prices in the UK are absolutely distorted with the reality of most continental EU, not to say the huge difference with the US.

So why would we have to pay more than what we do today buying from Japan even after adding the 8.25% import duties that theoretically apply to new musical instruments? At least here you can have somebody match somebody else's price, or benefit from a closeout. Try to bargain with Ikebe via email to at least get them not to charge you 2k yen for handling fees... And Japanese retailers are making as much if not more profit as anybody here in the US would.

Gus.

Last edited by Gusfmm; 06-23-2007 at 09:37 PM.
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post #18 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-23-2007, 09:32 PM
 
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Re: Damn American market....

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Originally Posted by voodoo_child View Post
Ibanez would rape you sideways pricewise if they sold them officially over there, same as they do here.
They'd not. The UK and most European markets are a totally different animal to US. Read my other post.

How much do you pay for a brand new UV777pbk over there? I can get one here for $1,899 (even less, just ask Rich). Tell me you can get one for 950 pounds there...

Gus.
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post #19 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-23-2007, 09:49 PM
 
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Re: Damn American market....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusfmm View Post
I'm not sure I follow your logic. Why would the US be different to Europe? I've read a few comments from European people (actually, most from the UK) and I recall them mentioning they'd had to pay, if were to import something from Japan directly, something like 22% taxes. On top of that, prices in the UK are absolutely distorted with the reality of most continental EU, not to say the huge difference with the US.

So why would we have to pay more than what we do today buying from Japan even after adding the 8.25% import duties that theoretically apply to new musical instruments? At least here you can have somebody match somebody else's price, or benefit from a closeout. Try to bargain with Ikebe via email to at least get them not to charge you 2k yen for handling fees... And Japanese retailers are making as much if not more profit as anybody here in the US would.

Gus.
Think it through. The highest end of the prestiges are around $2000. No way are they going to drop prices on them to make room for the j customs so they are going to price the j customs much higher than the prestiges, probably around 3k. Plus there's the bling factor of the vines, which retailers will use to justify the highest price possible.

You don't have to pay import taxes in the US, so that really isn't a factor in the equation.

Lastly, the yen is weak. Even though the 8470s are well over 200,000 yen after shipping fees, the equivalent of $2000 is japan, the final price is only $1900 shipped
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post #20 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-23-2007, 10:10 PM
 
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Re: Damn American market....

Phish,

That logic does not apply here. Have you checked prices of high-end Prestiges in Japan? Let me give you a quick run over two or three:

Jem 7VWH JAPAN $1,800 US $2,199
RGT220A JAPAN $1,450 US $1,499
UV777PBK JAPAN $1,600 US $1,899
RG2610E JAPAN $875 US $999

Japan prices are from Rakunen, US are from American Musical.

You DO have to pay import duties in the US. I think we've discussed this before. May be you've been lucky and have never been charged for the guitars you've purchased from Japan directly. That would not the case with an established company here in the US, representing, importing and selling/distributing Ibanez guitars.

When you think the price for a guitar sold in the US has to include inland freight, then inbound freight cost, and then import duties, you would probably come to the conclusion that we pay a fair price here for a local purchase. You also get manufacturer's warranty buying local.

So why, again, would J-Customs be so different in price? If they were, then people would still purchase them from Japan, as we do today. Ibanez distributors here would not want that to happen.
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post #21 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-23-2007, 10:11 PM
 
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Re: Damn American market....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusfmm View Post

How much do you pay for a brand new UV777pbk over there? I can get one here for $1,899 (even less, just ask Rich). Tell me you can get one for 950 pounds there...

Gus.
I'd pay about 1050 pounds for one here. Thats nearly $2100
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post #22 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-23-2007, 10:34 PM
 
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Re: Damn American market....

I dunno, it seems a little exciting to me:

http://www.ibanezrules.com/namm/2007...a_prestige.htm

Reissue of neon colored RGs with maple fingerboards, a bright purple RGA, an 8 string, the killer of all metal guitars - the single pickup - single volume knobbed RG2610, and a couple of really pretty neck thrus.

Yeah, I'm helping to beat this dead horse. But I am happy with this year's line up - as a matter of fact I've bought two new guitars that were released at the 2007 NAMM. I say bravo.

Thanks to Rich for the nice page.
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post #23 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-23-2007, 11:06 PM
 
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Re: Damn American market....

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Originally Posted by kirk View Post
I dunno, it seems a little exciting to me:

http://www.ibanezrules.com/namm/2007...a_prestige.htm

Reissue of neon colored RGs with maple fingerboards, a bright purple RGA, an 8 string, the killer of all metal guitars - the single pickup - single volume knobbed RG2610, and a couple of really pretty neck thrus.

Yeah, I'm helping to beat this dead horse. But I am happy with this year's line up - as a matter of fact I've bought two new guitars that were released at the 2007 NAMM. I say bravo.

Thanks to Rich for the nice page.
+1 but they raped the 2570 IMO, that greenish gold is uh... special
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post #24 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-23-2007, 11:07 PM
 
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Re: Damn American market....

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Originally Posted by Gusfmm View Post
You DO have to pay import duties in the US. I think we've discussed this before. May be you've been lucky and have never been charged for the guitars you've purchased from Japan directly. That would not the case with an established company here in the US, representing, importing and selling/distributing Ibanez guitars.
I did not pay taxes, and neither did the dozens of people at harmony central who have bought edwards les pauls or mij fenders.

Quote:
When you think the price for a guitar sold in the US has to include inland freight, then inbound freight cost, and then import duties, you would probably come to the conclusion that we pay a fair price here for a local purchase. You also get manufacturer's warranty buying local.
Thats kind of the point, even if the price is fair, we still pay more because of the middle man existing. Why not simply buy the guitar from japan, pay shipping yourself and save yourself all the extra fees a music store would charge?

Quote:
So why, again, would J-Customs be so different in price? If they were, then people would still purchase them from Japan, as we do today. Ibanez distributors here would not want that to happen.
Again, the current high price is $2000 for an RG, already more than a j custom. There is no way in hell they would charge less for a j custom than a prestige or that they would lower prices on everything. Your last issue would simply be solved by Ibanez not allowing importing. Same as whats happening with caparison.

I think caparison is a good model of what will happen. Ibanez will probably pick an exclusive distributer like guitar asylum who will assrape anyone who wants to buy a guitar out of their money. Why would this be any different than what has already happened with caparison?
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post #25 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-23-2007, 11:31 PM
 
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Re: Damn American market....

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Originally Posted by Phishphood42 View Post
Thats kind of the point, even if the price is fair, we still pay more because of the middle man existing. Why not simply buy the guitar from japan, pay shipping yourself and save yourself all the extra fees a music store would charge?
For the extra $300 I see totally justified that I get manufacturer's warraty, I get to see and play the guitar myself before buying, or I can return it within 30 days for a full refund if I don't like it, or I don't have to deal with the headaches of the courier having banged the guitar in transit leaving me with a broken case (or something even worse), or a wire transfer that went to somebody else's account rather than Ikebe's, 'cause the idiot in the bank typed one number wrong, etc....

Why don't you buy your Sony hi-fi home theater directly from Japan? I'm sure you'd save some money too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phishphood42 View Post
Again, the current high price is $2000 for an RG, already more than a j custom. There is no way in hell they would charge less for a j custom than a prestige or that they would lower prices on everything. Your last issue would simply be solved by Ibanez not allowing importing. Same as whats happening with caparison.
Where are those RG 20th going for $2,000??? Don't buy them there, there are dozen other stores selling them for $899. A J-Custom in the US would be likely priced very similarly as they're priced today in Japan, plus the extra mark-up for the factors aforementioned. See the comparison I posted before.
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post #26 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-23-2007, 11:47 PM
 
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Re: Damn American market....

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Originally Posted by Gusfmm View Post
For the extra $300 I see totally justified that I get manufacturer's warraty, I get to see and play the guitar myself before buying, or I can return it within 30 days for a full refund if I don't like it, or I don't have to deal with the headaches of the courier having banged the guitar in transit leaving me with a broken case (or something even worse), or a wire transfer that went to somebody else's account rather than Ikebe's, 'cause the idiot in the bank typed one number wrong, etc....

Why don't you buy your Sony hi-fi home theater directly from Japan? I'm sure you'd save some money too.
Warranty seems unimportant, no one I know who has bought a guitar new from the store has actually used it. The QC is very tight on these and any minor stuff can easily be done by any competent repairman or luthier. That analogy makes no sense, you are not buying from ibanez directly, and if you actually bought from sony it would be like 500 tvs at a time. It doesn't apply to the situation.

BTW, you can pay with credit card with ishibashi, very safe, credit companies don't **** around. Also, EMS is probably the safest shipping I've ever seen. On a plane untouched from japan to JFK, then a short trip to my door.

Quote:
Where are those RG 20th going for $2,000??? Don't buy them there, there are dozen other stores selling them for $899. A J-Custom in the US would be likely priced very similarly as they're priced today in Japan, plus the extra mark-up for the factors aforementioned. See the comparison I posted before.
No one was talking about RG 20. The RGT320Q is the highest priced RG.

Again, lets go through the factors

The guitar would already be around $2250 dollars since its around 225,000 yen from ishibashi, already $350 more than importing. Add in shipping from japan and regular dealer mark for anything considered "rare" and it would be well over $2500. Add sales tax, another $150 extra. Its approaching a full $1000 more than importing, thats ridiculous. With the shady deals some dealers pull like GC not offering cases it could easily go over $1000 extra

Also, there would be a high possibility of there being an exclusive dealer deal being made since these are limited run guitars. Lets use guitar asylum as an example. Look at the GA price for a caparison, then look at the ikebe prices. They love having something exclusive, and will take advantage of the customer in any way possible
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post #27 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-24-2007, 12:01 AM
 
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Re: Damn American market....

The RGT320Q in Japan sells for $1,850 (see here) against $1,995 here!!! It is already as expensive if not more than your JC RG8470F. So where is your point? I seriously do not get it. That guitar is produced by the J-Craft team, same that produces J-Customs.

My analogy of Sony is absolutely pertinent. You can buy Sony from Japanese stores and ship it over, same you do with Ibanez guitars.
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post #28 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-24-2007, 12:08 AM
 
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Re: Damn American market....

wait how would you not pay taxes anyway?!?! Because taxes were beastly when my rich friend got an imported infinity skyline. So I can imagine taxes would make the guitar the same amt of money or more as getting it in the U.S. If you don't have to pay for taxes sign me up for an edwards
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post #29 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-24-2007, 12:13 AM
 
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Re: Damn American market....

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Originally Posted by newbieguitarmaker View Post
wait how would you not pay taxes anyway?!?! Because taxes were beastly when my rich friend got an imported infinity skyline. So I can imagine taxes would make the guitar the same amt of money or more as getting it in the U.S. If you don't have to pay for taxes sign me up for an edwards
You don't, shred away
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post #30 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-24-2007, 12:15 AM
 
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Re: Damn American market....

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Originally Posted by Gusfmm View Post
The RGT320Q in Japan sells for $1,850 (see here) against $1,995 here!!! It is already as expensive if not more than your JC RG8470F. So where is your point? I seriously do not get it. That guitar is produced by the J-Craft team, same that produces J-Customs.

My analogy of Sony is absolutely pertinent. You can buy Sony from Japanese stores and ship it over, same you do with Ibanez guitars.
See the sticky thread, j customs are NOT produced by the same people as j customs. Also, your pricing is skewed as you are not factoring in the weak yen, for someone in japan that guitar will be the equivalent of paying $2000. The pricing of them doesn't make much sense, as they shouldn't be as much as j customs, but I guess neck throughs are expensive. Either way, with the vines, limited availability, and custom badging I highly doubt that american sellers would price them below the rgts
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