Direct from the factory floor (as-in stolen)? - Jemsite
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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-22-2014, 05:23 PM Thread Starter
 
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Direct from the factory floor (as-in stolen)?

So I guess people are selling factory stolen parts on eBay? I am not completely surprised just shocked that I found this online so easily... Maybe I am wrong though.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ibanez-RG950...h/251700468666
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-22-2014, 05:32 PM
 
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Re: Direct from the factory floor (as-in stolen)?

It's from Indonesia... I've seen lots of brand new Edge Zero II trems from there also.
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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-22-2014, 10:17 PM
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Re: Direct from the factory floor (as-in stolen)?

Last time I was in Bensalem I asked Junji who eats the loss from all that theft, Hoshino or the factory, and he wasn't sure. There is NO doubt they are cutting into guitar sales with as many cheap parts available, and they're cutting into my chrome Edge sales. And with the cosmo Edges now reaching the fences no doubt sales of those are going south also.
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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-22-2014, 10:21 PM
 
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Re: Direct from the factory floor (as-in stolen)?

I don't think they're stolen at all. I believe they're seconds/surplus and sold in bulk at the factory. I've bough (Edge trem) from the seller you linked and am sure I'm not the only one on the forum to do so.
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-22-2014, 10:23 PM
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Re: Direct from the factory floor (as-in stolen)?

They're all stolen. The factory is not permitted to sell anything to anybody except Hoshino who has ordered the finished product and supplied the parts. So you are buying stolen Edge trems.
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-22-2014, 10:28 PM
 
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Re: Direct from the factory floor (as-in stolen)?

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Originally Posted by Rich View Post
They're all stolen. The factory is not permitted to sell anything to anybody except Hoshino who has ordered the finished product and supplied the parts. So you are buying stolen Edge trems.
Color me wrong then . I really did not think it would be stolen. My sincere apologies.

There are so many sellers from Indonesia on ebay, some of them with more than 1000 feedback score though. The factory seams must be leaking like a sieve to get double/triple that many finished/half finished product out.
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-22-2014, 10:31 PM
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Re: Direct from the factory floor (as-in stolen)?

They used to let me just VERO them and kill the sales, but evidently the lawyers told them to stop. It's not what the system is for, but I just told Junji again. The only way to stem the tide is cut off their sales avenue to mass market, and kill the ebay sales. What are the fences going to do, start an international lawsuit against improper VERO action?! Yea, right.
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-22-2014, 10:35 PM
 
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Re: Direct from the factory floor (as-in stolen)?

Did you have to VERO every single auction! Holy smokes, that's almost a full time job in itself.
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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-22-2014, 10:38 PM
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Re: Direct from the factory floor (as-in stolen)?

There was only 2-3 sellers at that time and after a couple times they got the message. Then it exploded and there are probably 10-15 sellers, and that's just to US ebay, who knows what's being targeted to all the other ebay country sites.

They contacted direct me asking if I wanted to buy lots of 20 necks, bodies, etc. They are not hurting for supply of product to move, probably more supply than they have buyers.
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-22-2014, 10:47 PM
 
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Re: Direct from the factory floor (as-in stolen)?

Wow. I am truly embarrassed now! I build my own so Edge or Gotoh wouldn't make any difference to me but I wish I was as skeptic as the OP.
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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-23-2014, 02:21 AM
 
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Re: Direct from the factory floor (as-in stolen)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
They're all stolen.
Shouldn't you guys report this seller to the site administration?
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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-23-2014, 02:37 AM
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Re: Direct from the factory floor (as-in stolen)?

What site administrator??
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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-23-2014, 04:28 AM
 
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Re: Direct from the factory floor (as-in stolen)?

stolen or no stolen, it's only how do you see that.
stolen is the word ( or excuse) they give to Ibanez, when they're asked how this happened.
but I don't believe at all.

with the volume of the parts ( bodies, neck, etc) , I really think it's not only one man show down there. It's starting from the worker who do the body or neck, the QC, up to the senior level management that maybe look to the other side.
there is no way the factory manager did not know about it.
So I think it's kind of syndicate running this show.

it's up to ibanez ( hoshino) to put pressure on the factory, if they don't wanna see this anymore.

Last edited by psychoshredder; 11-23-2014 at 04:36 AM.
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-23-2014, 05:42 AM
 
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Re: Direct from the factory floor (as-in stolen)?

Pshycho is right. This is not the work of a bunch of rogue workers, it has to operate with either the cooperation or at least the unspoken agreement of management. I find it hard to believe that they are being stolen in the traditional sense ie. Security: "Ahmad, what the hell have you got down your pants?" Ahmad:"Oh man, took a viagra last night, the damn thing still hasn't worn off!"

I saw quite a bit of this happen in quite a few countries, my favourite for sheer audicaty was a huge factory producing garments for a particular jeans manufacturer in Turkey, on the street outside pitched against the railings of factory were market stalls selling the produce. I even saw someone asking for a leg to be taken up and with that a boy was dispatched to the back door of the factory, 5 minutes later the deal was complete.

For a company like Ibanez hiring an investigator shouldn't be an issue. Perhaps they are afraid that they'll be forced to close the whole operation if they delve too deeply into the issue. I feel their best bet would be to hit the factory with a new contract whereby they fine the factory $1,000 for every part that hits the market "factory direct", every other solution would probably involve awarding the contract to whomever the rivals were during the tender phase (most large companies tender this sort of work and make a choice between 3 to 4 suppliers), this would have huge costs and issues associated.

There are more often an array of factors at the heart of this. One thing I can't help noticing is the parts are insanely cheap, this means that the guys selling it feel that they're getting a good price and more importantly so are the guys stealing it. All of this points to another issue, the workers are obviously not getting paid very much. Perhaps a combination of a well trained outside security team and a financial package more in line with Japan or the US would stamp this out altogether, sure it would push prices up, however, the finishing on some of the Indonesian guitars is great. I feel if the workers were given a decent financial package, the QC issues would start to taper off also. I am sure much of the stealing/shoddy workmanship is being internally justified by many quite skilled labourers who feel somewhat exploited and are using that as the excuse to set their own moral compass on the issue.

Guitar buyers are willing to part with a little more cash for a better made guitar. Some of the Indonesian guitars are only a few hundred cheaper than a Prestige anyway. That's my 2c
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-23-2014, 11:45 AM
 
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Re: Direct from the factory floor (as-in stolen)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachmaninoff View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
They're all stolen.
Shouldn't you guys report this seller to the site administration?
What site administrator??
http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/report-trading.html

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