Epiphone Les Paul and Squier Stratocaster over premium Floyded metal guitars? - Jemsite
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-05-2013, 01:11 PM Thread Starter
 
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Epiphone Les Paul and Squier Stratocaster over premium Floyded metal guitars?

What do you think?

http://menga.net/29121

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/deta...FeqDQgodDiQAug

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/StratSVMRVB/

The article makes a strong argument for either classic yet low priced, chrome parts, simply wired Epi Les Pauls or Squier strats over our beloved, yet complicated Floyded instruments. On one hand a brand new instrument with gold plated Edge and pristine finish and virgin neck with huge frets is unmatched for playing metal and looking metal. On the other hand over a long period of time, the cheap Les Paul and strat standbys can look better with age, rust, and dings, but these never look better on a Jem or top of the line RG. It's nerve wracking to have a perfectly shiny guitar like a Jem to sit on a stand (unattended) at a gig but no issue for $400 dollar Epi Les Paul. You can usually do a simple DIY solder job and put in DiMarzios or EMGs into the cheaper guitars and supplement the sound nicely.

It's kind of like if you want a Ferrari (and Ferrari like price tag of a Jem) which performs but needs to be kept in perfect working order and appearance versus a workaday standard like the Epi Les Paul or Squier strat that can take abuse and can actually look "vintage" if it chips, scratches, and wears down. For some reason I don't like dings in sexy Floyded guitars (whether they be Ibanez, Jackson, or a rare Pensa Suhr) but feel that banged up Les Pauls and strats are comfy like a pair of worn out Levis. Anyway, I like the article even though I like both simple chrome plated non-locking guitars and fancy, gold plated or black chrome Floyd and Kahler guitars. To me, there is a place for low maintenance, reliable guitars that need virtually no maintenance and high maintenance, special purpose guitars with complicated electronics/trems/parts. It's just that this simple article makes some strong points and would probably not recommend the Edge or similar trem.

Last edited by 63Blazer; 09-05-2013 at 01:26 PM.
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-05-2013, 01:50 PM
 
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Re: Epiphone Les Paul and Squier Stratocaster over premium Floyded metal guitars?

It all depends what you want. Imo nothing beats an old beat up strat. It just looks right and if set upright, a cheap mexican strat can be a killer instrument.
Having said that, one of the best sounding and playing guitars ive owned and played is a Jem 7VWH.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-05-2013, 02:02 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Epiphone Les Paul and Squier Stratocaster over premium Floyded metal guitars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brosa View Post
It all depends what you want. Imo nothing beats an old beat up strat. It just looks right and if set upright, a cheap mexican strat can be a killer instrument.
Having said that, one of the best sounding and playing guitars ive owned and played is a Jem 7VWH.
That is so true. I remember my old Mexican strat with rosewood fingerboard and I sounded better on that set up all stock than my American ones with maple board (my fav) or Fender custom shop ebony board.

I keep just two guitars these days which is a simple Artcore AS73 with stock stuff and chrome parts which I have to do nothing to, and my much higher maintenance custom wired ESP/LTD Viper with delicate Bigsby trem.

When I want to write a song or learn one and not fuss with particulars of guitar, the Artcore AS73 is a simple tool that I don't notice so I can focus on song. It has never let me down. On the other hand, the Viper is so much more fun to fool with and tinker with all the sounds I can get with push pull pot, wide ranging EMG pickups, and the Bigsby. The Bigsby is great when all strings are properly stretched out, yet not brand spanking new and thus unstable, and nut is lubricated that day. It stays basically in tune well enough to pass for a usable instrument. But most of the time I am fiddling with the "right" sound to get from the sound choices I have and dealing with Bigsby going out of tune and having handle/bar become loose and have too much play. It's honestly as much fuss as a Floyd or Kahler and it's a love-hate relationship. If there were no problems with the Bigsby guitar I would go with that every single time, but because of the nature of strings, physics, and heat/humidity, it's a great thing that there are super simple guitars like my Ibanez AS73.
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-12-2013, 04:08 AM
 
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Re: Epiphone Les Paul and Squier Stratocaster over premium Floyded metal guitars?

I love em all. I got a completely custom fully beat up strat (the only original part is the chinese body). Also got a nice slightly beat rg1570 player and a full mint rg3whatever the prestige with the tight end R.

All are great for metal
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-13-2013, 10:13 AM
 
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Re: Epiphone Les Paul and Squier Stratocaster over premium Floyded metal guitars?

I don't think those arguments are too strong. There are plenty of "metal" guitars without gold hardware. Plenty of them come with hardtails or TOM bridges, and anyone who is going to buy a guitar with a trem should be aware of what they are getting into. I hate active electronics which are usually in "metal" guitars, but they aren't exactly overcomplicated. I get what he's trying to say, but to each his own. I would never buy a brand new JEM, a fender custom shop strat, or a les paul custom because they are vastly overpriced for a guitar that isn't built to my specs. I would take the epi or squier over any expensive guitar because they are cheap and as long as they are put together OK you can use them and not have to worry about your tiny investment. I do own a couple prestige guitars, but I only use them to record and I maintain them constantly so they look as new as possible. Its a pain but I love the feel and I think they were worth it because I bought them used in great condition for under 800 bucks each.
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-13-2013, 02:33 PM
 
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Re: Epiphone Les Paul and Squier Stratocaster over premium Floyded metal guitars?

I love love love cheap guitars. Ilearned to change pickups and mod on cheapies. Don't have the anxiety of screwing things up when you are starting out. Now that I know what I'm doing I feel i could work on expensive axes no problem. The thing is... just like any guitar a cheapie still has to feel right. Lots of these have the cheaper finish or like that lesp paul you linked, just a stained finish which automatically makes them comfy to hold as aposed to a fancy shiny glossy high end guitar. Although companies like suhr also have stain or light finishes now. I recently sold a high end guitar and although I loved it and it sounded awesome, I always kept it in the case , didn't want to play it out etc. and it was kind of a shame. I was planning on keeping it as an investment piece but now that its gone I am playing my "faded" version of the same guitar way more and to be honest its always been my fave guitar. I'm kind of getting of track here but I feel like a good cheap guitar with a pickup and tuner change and setup can be just as playable and good sounding as a guitar 1000 dollars more. I have no problem buying a cheap guitar b/c there is nothing better than finding one of those cheap diamonds in the rough.
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-13-2013, 09:39 PM
 
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Re: Epiphone Les Paul and Squier Stratocaster over premium Floyded metal guitars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by That Guy
This is most notorious thing metal guitars do. One day you pick it up to play it, and something just doesn't feel right. You've been maintaining the guitar as best you can, using the same size strings whenever you do a string change and even kept it in a room where the temperature and humidity is good so no damage can be done - but something is wrong. It just doesn't play the way it used to. For some reason it also sounds different in a bad way.

And you have no idea what the problem is or even how to fix it.

Strats and Les Pauls do not do this. Once either guitar is broken in, it will continue to provide many years of useful playing goodness.

A metal guitar on the other hand won't. Once it starts to do that doesn't-feel-right crap, it will never feel right to you ever again for as long as you own it.

Have you ever known a metal player who owns a few guitars, and happens to have a really expensive one that he used to play all the time but now all of a sudden doesn't? Believe me, he's not "preserving" that guitar. The doesn't-feel-right thing happened and now he can't play it anymore. And because he paid so much for it originally, he doesn't want to sell it even though he never plays the thing.

What causes the doesn't-feel-right factor over time? It could be anything, but it probably has something to do with the neck.
This is one the stupidest things I've read on the the internet in a long time.

Quote:
When super-jumbo frets wear down (which a lot of metal guitars have), there is no fix for this other than to re-fret the entire neck, and that's expensive. Guitars that have what's now known as medium-jumbo frets (again, Strats and Les Pauls) don't need re-fretting nearly as often.
...and this is the stupidest thing I've ever read on the internet. Jumbo frets have more material, which means it takes longer to wear them down, which means you'll get more level and recrowns before refretting is needed.

That guy sounds like a beginner.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-14-2013, 09:00 AM
 
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Re: Epiphone Les Paul and Squier Stratocaster over premium Floyded metal guitars?

Also, what does he mean "metal" guitar? If I recall correctly Timo Tolkki used JEM77FP during the first years of Stratovarius, switched to ESP MII custom (basically just scalloped the frets and put album cover art designs on the body), then went to a standard Ibanez Prestige for RevRen. Then you have lots of guitarists who now have signatures (Chris Broderick of Megadeth) but get along fine without them. Heck Nili Brosh uses mostly Ibanez premiums and prestiges. Then you have someone like Yngwie, the guys from iron Maiden, etc using Fender strats.

I think we need to define "metal" because you can use any guitar for any genre and I don't think just randomly saying "floating trems wear out, hardtails dont so LPs/Strats/Teles are better." That's a load of crap.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-14-2013, 12:17 PM
 
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Re: Epiphone Les Paul and Squier Stratocaster over premium Floyded metal guitars?

biased blog post is biased
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-14-2013, 08:19 PM
 
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Re: Epiphone Les Paul and Squier Stratocaster over premium Floyded metal guitars?

@toshiro
Wow, good catch. I didn't notice those brazenly stupid observations about jumbo frets wearing out faster than mediums. Something tells me that the guy that wrote the article guy just doesn't like metal, and how so many metal guitarists have expensive signature guitars.
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-15-2013, 01:48 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Epiphone Les Paul and Squier Stratocaster over premium Floyded metal guitars?

I think jumbo frets are more forgiving both in playing and in wear. A lot of guitarists I know who like lead guitar do tend towards the Jackson/Ibanez/Gibson/ESP type of thing with bigger to jumbo frets instead of a small fretted thing like a vintage Vox or mid-70s Fender.

With a lot of guitars with micro frets being perfect for rhythm guitar (like ones I preferred when I only played rhythm and sang), one can often find old guitars like this with almost no fret wear beyond the third fret. This is why some may perceive tiny fretted instruments as ones that wear longer. It's more common so see an RG totally worn faster around the A scale or E scale on 12th fret via a lead guitarist more than a Teisco Del Rey being worn there and that's due more to the model and the player that model attracts like a lead player who is apt to go with RG more than an old Teisco.

As long as all the frets are nickel-silver (of course with no silver), it makes sense that the bigger ones have more material to wear down. I think with SS frets, it shouldn't matter about how they wear or if they wear too fast so choose what size suits you.

Paul Reed Smith guitars are probably the best when it comes to regular nickel-silver frets but of the hardest material. If you want to spring for SS frets, then it costs more and the ones I found are on custom necks or custom guitars. I know Allan Holdsworth outfits his guitars with large SS frets from the get go so he can have a long wearing guitar. I did large/jumbo SS frets once on an old Fender tele and they were very smooth and relatively buzz free except for the part of the neck that had a warp that was not repairable. He had put SS frets on Allan's guitars, too and I still wish I had that guitar.

Last edited by 63Blazer; 10-15-2013 at 01:56 PM.
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-26-2013, 10:28 PM
 
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Re: Epiphone Les Paul and Squier Stratocaster over premium Floyded metal guitars?

There are some points that I agree with and others that, well, I just don't. I do agree with gold hardware being crap but that's just a personal preference. All styles have issues in time and gold is no different than black or chrome hardware if you don't take care of it. Rusting and pitting are common from sweat and oils but you can diminish it's effect by wiping down and routinely cleaning. My mid-80's Floyd Rose equipped Kramer "metal" guitar has some rust on the trem (saddle screws) but is still in great shape overall. Likewise, the concept that only metal guitars rust is comical and the Fenders and LPs just keep playing through the rust. Sorry. Rust is rust and it is unbiased when it comes to killing a guitar if not taken care of. And the idea that the guitar is just different and crap is an odd, unproven, thing to write about metal guitars(?). My guitars sound better the older they get but that may be due to the fact my hearing is getting worse the older I get!
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