Floyd Rose users- educate me. Rite Now Floyds make me freak- Change my viewpoint - Jemsite
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post #1 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-29-2008, 11:24 PM Thread Starter
 
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Floyd Rose users- educate me. Rite Now Floyds make me freak- Change my viewpoint

NOTE I AM A NOVICE GUITAR PLAYER AND AM JUST SEEKING INFORMATION FROM MORE SEASONED PLAYERS SO I CAN UNDERSTAND THE BENEFITS OF A FLOYD ROSE. ARE THERE ANY? THANK YOU.

BASED ON MY NOVICE LEVEL HERE ARE MY THOUGHTS: Coming from a newbie- I know some of you guys swear by them but I donít get why. With Wilkinsons out there and regular and vintage Fender trems, why do you guys like them? Is a Floyd Rose really necessary? Please educate me. Other than being able to ďflutterĒ I donít get why people use them when they can't just use a regular tremolo.

I have a few friends who are amazing metal guitar players and one of them plays a Fat Strat with a regular Fender tremolo and the other plays a Fender Eric Johnson signature Strat equipped with a vintage Fender tremolo. Both of these guitars donít have Floyds and those two friends of mine shriek and dive bomb and do crazy whammy bar effects just like the best of them. Their guitars stay in tune or they retune them a tad maybe at a break- like we break once every hour and a half or so. Itís no big deal-

Itís too bad that I have a fear of guitars equipped with a Floyd because every time Iím in any one of the used music stores in town they always have these really awesome beauty 80s Japanese guitars for sale for a song but the only problem is they all have Floyd Rose tremolo systems. I just saw an 80s made in Japan Ibanez RG550 that I was droolling over for $200 bucks or a Fernandez ďThe FunctionĒ for $140 bucks or an old Jackson or Charvel. Awesomely built guitars, but in my mind, my excitement was quickly dampened once I saw the - Floyd, which is a pain to set up and change strings on.

So Iím asking as a Newbie- what are the benefits if any of a Floyd? I love metal and dive bombs and stuff but after watching my best guitar player friends it seems all the whammybar ****ing youíd ever need to do can be achieved by a regular trem or a Wilkinson. Why bother with a Floyd? To me they just seem like a pain in the ass.

Maybe from a newbie point of view it's hard to see the benefits I dunno. Any comments?
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post #2 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-29-2008, 11:30 PM
 
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Re: Floyd Rose users- educate me. Rite Now Floyds make me freak- Change my viewpoint

It's a good question you pose here. I know some guys have their guitar set up so that they can wail on non-locking trems without the guitar going out of tune; maybe a testament to their tech abilities or the quality of the trem they are using. For me personally I like an FR equipped guitar for the convenience, I can lock it down, put it in the case or gig bag and even if the tuners get bumped I don't have to spend a lot of time retuning; just pick it up and play. Sorry I couldn't give you any solid information, lol.
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post #3 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-29-2008, 11:51 PM
 
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Re: Floyd Rose users- educate me. Rite Now Floyds make me freak- Change my viewpoint

I've never done any serious whammy bar tricks on a non-floyd style equipped guitar. But I think generally, double locking will be the most stable system for staying in tune. (Not to say other units can't be decently stable when set up properly). I've got one thing that makes a double locking trem unique. If you pull up on the bar, they give you the ability to raise the pitch however many semitones, depending on how high the trem posts are raised and if the trem is recessed or not (most are).
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post #4 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-01-2008, 06:31 AM
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Re: Floyd Rose users- educate me. Rite Now Floyds make me freak- Change my viewpoint

I can't live without a double-locking trem.
Over the years you learn the secrets - I'm at the point now where I can do a complete string change in under 5 minutes and I haven't broken a string while playing in over a year.

First secret is to get it set up right. Ifr you are not able to do this yourself - get a good tech and pay him cause once it's set up all you do is change strings.

Change strings more often than you think you need to.

While changing a string - make sure you set the string in the saddle CORRECTLY, then stretch it right. All I need is a single allen wrench.

Once you 'get it', you'll never go back to a conventional bridge setup because that style guitar can't offer you all the cool things a locking trem does. (unless your a blues player).

I love 'em and I'm very aggressive with the bar. Give it the old college try!

-jemaholic
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post #5 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-01-2008, 09:52 AM
 
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Re: Floyd Rose users- educate me. Rite Now Floyds make me freak- Change my viewpoint

Yeah I agree with jemaholic. Get it set up and then its so easy to maintain. I can change my strings in minutes and its ready to play, very easy and convinient when you understand how it works and you know what your doing. Just a bit of reading on Jemsite and Ibanez rules is all you need really.

Choose your srting gauge and choose your tuning, get it set up and then stick those choises. For me its easy, Diadario 9-42 in standard tuning. Some people say they don't like Floyd's because you can't change tunings after strings are installed, well that's never a good idea even on non floating bridges, You may be able to get a drop D out of it, even with a floyd if set up, but going from standard to D or C is never a good idea with what ever string or bridge you are using. Tuning changes need different string gauges, different tension on the neck(intonation) ect... Once you get use to it, it takes you about 5 minutes to replace the old string with new ones then all you have to do is tune them, stretch them (this is important) then retune them, you might need to stretch them once more and retune but that's usually it for me. You can even replace the strings one at the time, most people that are not used to floating bridges prefer it that way so you never loose tension on your bridge. Just detune the old string, replace with new one, tune it and stretch and do the rest the same way. Once all this is done right, my string never and I meen never go out of tune, they are right on the dot in tune from day one to the moment I decide to replace them (I usually change them every 3-4 weeks depending on how much I play). I use the whammy bar allot, so much I could make Steve Vai go "That guy uses his whammy bar allot !!". I find the bending of strings is alot smoother on floating bridges also, because its not fixed the bridge will bend a little forward, making your bends nice and smooth. I cant say enough about them I have been playing 570's/550's for 15 years not and I'll never get a guitar without a floyd (exept my RG7321 that I have).
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post #6 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-01-2008, 09:59 PM
 
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Re: Floyd Rose users- educate me. Rite Now Floyds make me freak- Change my viewpoint

Okay, I'm here to offer a counter opinion.

Let me begin by saying that I am a heavy trem user. I will also state that I refuse to play anything that's Floyd Rose equipped save for a JEM because I love the JEM neck. I'm not a fan of Floyds, there's just so much of a hassle to set it up. Also, I play in drop and open tunings a lot, particularly dropping the low E to D, and not because I'm a metal player (I'm not), but because of the influence Indian music has had on me, I play a lot of stuff in D lydian. If I were to do this on a Floyd, everything would be out of whack, and I'd spend maybe ten minutes simply on tuning. Sure, a great setup can do wonders, but why deal with it when you can avoid it?

Divebombs are fun. Let me tell you right now, I do them on my vintage trem-equipped Strat all the time. Sure, there are some tuning problems, but those are VERY easily avoidable; my trem system is a Mexican system, hence not very stable. If you really want stability, get some locking tuners (Sperzels are good) and a decent bridge, and an LSR roller nut if you want. Jeff Beck does flutters all the time on his signiature stratocaster, and all he's got is a Fender 2-point bridge, an LSR roller nut, and Sperzels. Playing his signiature strat is awesome, but that's another point.

Check out this vid, it's an awesome song, but he also uses a decent bit of whammy, even some flutters at around 1:40 or so to 2:09- http://youtube.com/watch?v=F1hijzkOrnk

Again, I don't find Floyds appealing. Nowadays, I'm starting to see the Floyd as unnecessary, and many Floyd players (not all; don't everyone take offense to this) that are using Floyds seem like leftovers from the 80s trying to recapture their glory. Vintage trems or hardtails are the way to go man. Again, as you said above, EJ's strat's got locking tuners, that's really all you need. Stay away from the hassle, stick to vintage trems.

Just my two cents.
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post #7 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-01-2008, 11:28 PM
 
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Re: Floyd Rose users- educate me. Rite Now Floyds make me freak- Change my viewpoint

I don't understand why some people consider them a hassle to set up. It's not really rocket science, really, and I think some people spend MORE time, trying to get a NON-locking system to work and stay in tune, than if they were using a locking system. Yeah, I know my way around a guitar (and I firmly believe every guitarist should, too), but I don't spend all that much time, catering to my locking trem setups. I've had my share of standard fulcrum trems, and only ONE really stayed in tune, half decent. I tried to make some of them actual hold tune under trem use, but I swear, some of them would lose tune, just from LOOKING at the bar! After a while, I said "fuggit", not worth the added hassle, when I can just use my FR-equipped guitars, and be perfectly content.
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post #8 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-02-2008, 01:02 AM
 
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Re: Floyd Rose users- educate me. Rite Now Floyds make me freak- Change my viewpoint

Doesn't anyone like them because of the look?

I know I love the schaller LFRs and the look of the Edge Pro.

Feels nice when playing. Ironically I am a fixed bridge player, and despite owning a guitar with a Edge Pro and a guitar with OFR, I have them fixed with a tremol-no. But I like the feel.
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post #9 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-02-2008, 01:03 AM
 
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Re: Floyd Rose users- educate me. Rite Now Floyds make me freak- Change my viewpoint

I've got both - and my advice to anyone just starting out would be to get one with a non-locking trem as a first axe. Personally, while it's cool to have a fully floating bridge - I'd feel lost without my trusty strat. Easy to change strings, easy to maintain, easy to change tunings. The others have brought up some valid points . . . Sure its easy to change strings once you get the hang of it, and it'll stay in tune for ages . . . but really, with only one axe you won't get a ton of practice doing that stuff, and with no backup you'll be up **** creek if a string breaks. Everyone should have a hardtail/strat style bridge as a first axe.
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post #10 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-02-2008, 05:46 AM
 
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Re: Floyd Rose users- educate me. Rite Now Floyds make me freak- Change my viewpoint

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColinMmmmm View Post
I've got both - and my advice to anyone just starting out would be to get one with a non-locking trem as a first axe. Personally, while it's cool to have a fully floating bridge - I'd feel lost without my trusty strat. Easy to change strings, easy to maintain, easy to change tunings. The others have brought up some valid points . . . Sure its easy to change strings once you get the hang of it, and it'll stay in tune for ages . . . but really, with only one axe you won't get a ton of practice doing that stuff, and with no backup you'll be up **** creek if a string breaks. Everyone should have a hardtail/strat style bridge as a first axe.
I think the opposite.
My first axe was a double locking. The sooner you know your way around the better.
Sure it was not easy as a beginner, but in the end it payed off. In just a few month I could swap strings blindfolded and knew more about guitar construction than most of the guys I started off with.
Simply because the Floyd forced me to learn this stuff too.

Of course if you are likely to give up and easy to frustrate then get a fixed bridge...
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post #11 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-02-2008, 06:32 AM
 
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Re: Floyd Rose users- educate me. Rite Now Floyds make me freak- Change my viewpoint

I find floyds easier and quicker to change strings on than normal bridges. since if you put the ball end through the tuner, it is far easier to wind neatly. As long as your not changing gauges and you block the bridge, its a very quick job.
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post #12 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-02-2008, 07:13 AM
 
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Re: Floyd Rose users- educate me. Rite Now Floyds make me freak- Change my viewpoint

All you need is practice. To get use to floyds
Then they will become your best friends
Floyds rules!!
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post #13 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-02-2008, 07:18 AM
 
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Re: Floyd Rose users- educate me. Rite Now Floyds make me freak- Change my viewpoint

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alkeys View Post

1. I know some of you guys swear by them but I don’t get why.

2. With Wilkinsons out there and regular and vintage Fender trems, why do you guys like them?

3. Please educate me. Other than being able to “flutter” I don’t get why people use them when they can't just use a regular tremolo.

4. what are the benefits if any of a Floyd? Why bother with a Floyd? To me they just seem like a pain in the ass.

Is a Floyd Rose really necessary?
Answers to questions 1-4:

A Floyd equiped guitar stays far better in tune than a regular tremolo equiped guitar. Even though a finely tunes wilkinson is nice, a finely tuned floyd does NOT go out of tune. I guess that's important to a lot of people. If you like to do Satriani/ Vai style whammy bar tricks, a floyd is the only way to go.

Sure it's more a hassle than a standard bridge, but that's only in the beginning. Before you know it, you'll change your string in a few minutes no problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alkeys View Post
It’s too bad that I have a fear of guitars equipped with a Floyd because every time I’m in any one of the used music stores in town they always have these really awesome beauty 80s Japanese guitars for sale for a song but the only problem is they all have Floyd Rose tremolo systems.
Fear of change and new things are understandable, but:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoda
" fear is a path that leads to the dark side"
lol

Just try one out and if you like, maybe you'll buy it.
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post #14 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-03-2008, 08:47 PM
 
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Re: Floyd Rose users- educate me. Rite Now Floyds make me freak- Change my viewpoint

floyds are more used for tonal stability in mad bends and stuff like that, and bending high bars over while doing dynamics, it allots the tension of the string to remain relatively the same, as the springs in teh back compensate and stretch so the string is "relatively" in tune i use that word loosely

but the dynamics of a floyd are all personal, and arent any possitive factors at all!

if you really are into being savage as **** its all about the kahler units
the new kahlers are beyond functional, and instead of operating as a fulcrum based trem like all ibanez and floyd types...it has a rolling cam that never leaves the string sections harmoinc pitch, it just moves the string retainer block

and they are more stable, but are ten times harder to setup...they are alot more verstile and when it comes to tone, MUCH MORE TONE WORTHY!!!!!

you can chose any paterial for either of the cams, and rollers, and theres no stupid sustain block , and no lock block for the bridge

and for the record, you can use a kahler trem unit, WITHOUT THE NUT LOCKED, or even with a corian nut, and it doesnt need to be double locking mech to stya in tune for dive bombs or anything like that

you can actually use it or not

i have a 3300 fine tuner fixed bridge and the tone is to die for

i had soo many floyds and dont get me wrong are great and all, but are tonaly retarded and i dunno


anyways
if you are tottaly interested go with a kahler steel on steel cam set with stainless steel rollers

they have ten times more tone, and are ten times more stable than a floyd


but some people just love the floyds, i dont, they dont have enough tone for me, but i have all high gain pickups now with all migh pot values so the slightest in tone variations i can tell
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post #15 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-04-2008, 12:28 AM
 
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Re: Floyd Rose users- educate me. Rite Now Floyds make me freak- Change my viewpoint

Quote:
Originally Posted by losgatosrg350dx View Post
they have ten times more tone, and are ten times more stable than a floyd
You exadurate a bit, my fellow jemsiter
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