IBANEZ RGA420Z (New prestiege) or MUSIMAN JP6 - Jemsite
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-02-2010, 08:00 PM Thread Starter
 
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IBANEZ RGA420Z (New prestiege) or MUSIMAN JP6

I can decide which guitar to pick. I play metal but I have alot of clean guitar parts. The music man has piezo pickups which are great for that, but the new rga prestiege looks like it would be incredible. Based on the specs what would you say?

http://www.music-man.com/instruments...-petrucci.html

http://www.ibanez.com/ElectricGuitars/model-RGA420Z
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-03-2010, 12:05 AM
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Re: IBANEZ RGA420Z (New prestiege) or MUSIMAN JP6

Moving to a more appropriate area.
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-03-2010, 10:17 AM
 
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Re: IBANEZ RGA420Z (New prestiege) or MUSIMAN JP6

They are quite different guitars... different body types and different pickup types. Ibanez is Mahogany with Active pickups whereas the Musicman is Basswood with passive pickups. Not to mention the tremolo which is double locking on the Ibanez.

If you want to do lots of crazy trem stuff then go for the Ibanez. The feel of the two guitars should be different as well.. I've never played a music man though but I heard stories of people who couldn't adjust to the neck. Same stories apply to Ibbies.

I guess you really have to play both and decide.. but I have a feeling that versatiliy wide the Musicman wins... the Ibanez looks like more of a metal machine only with those active pickups
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-03-2010, 02:04 PM
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Re: IBANEZ RGA420Z (New prestiege) or MUSIMAN JP6

Quote:
Originally Posted by mindwalker View Post
I guess you really have to play both and decide.. but I have a feeling that versatiliy wide the Musicman wins... the Ibanez looks like more of a metal machine only with those active pickups
Ah, but which would you choose if you were playing progressive melodic black death metal? That's the question
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-03-2010, 02:33 PM
 
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Re: IBANEZ RGA420Z (New prestiege) or MUSIMAN JP6

I'd lean towards the JP6, but I've got a serious soft spot for the location of the pickup selector on those particular guitars.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-03-2010, 05:41 PM
 
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Re: IBANEZ RGA420Z (New prestiege) or MUSIMAN JP6

Yeah maybe the JP6.. the Ibbie has a 5 way toggle switch which you might not use a lot if playing mostly metal.. you might find the 3 way switch on the JP6 to switch more easily from bridge to neck pickup and vice versa because there's less travel involved (nothing that a firm stroke on the Ibanez blade switch won't do though)

I suspect both guitars will work for what you want.. probably the key to black metal sound will lie more with the amplifier and not so much the guitar. If you want to downtune to C (think Arch Enemy) then the Ibanez with its Edge Zero may struggle to reach so low because it can only have 2 springs in the tremolo cavity which may not be enough to hold the tension of say.. gauge 12 strings that you might need for that kind of tuning. But I don't have 1st hand experience on this.

Maybe you could look into Ibanez new range of 26.5 length scale guitars, the RGD series.. they should be good for downtuning as the longer scale allows to have low tunings without going for too thick string gauges. But longer scale means bigger hand stretches

The JP6 with its piezo function would work quite nicely to have some acoustic sounds throw into the song.. it's a very nice feature to have. also the JP6 has a better after market value, should you wish to sell it if you're not happy with it after some time.

Owning myself 3 Ibanez guitars, 1 Mahogany with Ibz/Dimarzio, another mahogany with Ibanez V pickups and one Basswood with DiMarzio Blaze pickups and playing through a POD with a distortion amplifier sim... I can't really tell much difference between them so... maybe I'm deaf but I'd say... take the one that you fall in love with when you see it / play it.. this will make you want to hold it everytime..
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-03-2010, 09:49 PM
 
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Re: IBANEZ RGA420Z (New prestiege) or MUSIMAN JP6

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Originally Posted by mindwalker View Post
If you want to downtune to C (think Arch Enemy) then the Ibanez with its Edge Zero may struggle to reach so low because it can only have 2 springs in the tremolo cavity which may not be enough to hold the tension of say.. gauge 12 strings that you might need for that kind of tuning. But I don't have 1st hand experience on this.
When tuning down there's less tension from the strings, so two springs shouldn't be a problem.
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-04-2010, 05:19 AM
 
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Re: IBANEZ RGA420Z (New prestiege) or MUSIMAN JP6

yep when you tune down you have less tension on the strings, so they go flappy. So you want to have higher gauge strings which increase the tension. I've never really tuned to C myself but the guys at the Ibanez forum told me that gauge 12 and tuning to C might create too much tension for the 2 springs on the Edge Zero. Dunno
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-04-2010, 05:57 AM
 
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Re: IBANEZ RGA420Z (New prestiege) or MUSIMAN JP6

Hm, seems unlogical to me...

Tuning down - less tension
Putting on thicker strings - more tension again
With 12s tuned to C it should still result in less tension than with 10s tuned to standard (at least with something like a 12-54 set).

There's this cool gadged here http://wahiduddin.net/dance/guitar_string_calc.htm

If I find the time later on, I will try to get an exact answer
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-04-2010, 06:10 AM
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Re: IBANEZ RGA420Z (New prestiege) or MUSIMAN JP6

If both guitars are accessible, try out each one to see what feels best. Pickups can always be changed, so the real heart an soul lies in the neck.



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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-04-2010, 07:03 AM
 
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Re: IBANEZ RGA420Z (New prestiege) or MUSIMAN JP6

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Originally Posted by Quantum919 View Post
There's this cool gadged here http://wahiduddin.net/dance/guitar_string_calc.htm

If I find the time later on, I will try to get an exact answer
Cool page.. your argument is sound! I scrolled down that page and I checked the resulting tension on the D'addario string specs from gauge 10 to gauge 12. It goes from 61.27 kgs to 75.38 kgs (in standard tuning). I have a feeling that going down 2 whole tones may still result in a higher tension than 61.27kgs ? I guess the best way to find out is to try
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-04-2010, 01:36 PM
 
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Re: IBANEZ RGA420Z (New prestiege) or MUSIMAN JP6

I have my guitar tuned to Drop B (B F# B E G# C#) with a custom gauge set (.068, .046, .034, .020, .016, .012) and the resulting tension is 55,52kg. I guess the tension for 12-54 gauge strings tuned to C Standard would be even less (without having checked).

Yes, trying it is the best way to find out for sure
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-04-2010, 03:06 PM
 
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Re: IBANEZ RGA420Z (New prestiege) or MUSIMAN JP6

JP6 and RGA are totally different guitars. The necks on the MM are tiny, very thin and narrow, and the pickups on the jp are much clearer and more 'traditional' sounding, even though the crunch lab is seriously hot.

Piezo doesn't mean good cleans, I HATED the Piezo pickup on my JP. Great through an acoustic amp or a JC120, but it sounded really awful through my Roadster. However, the middle position on the pickup selector (where it splits both pickups) sounded excellent for cleans.

The JP6 is easier to buy used, which I recommend, the prices went up recently and are now insane (here, about 2200 for a standard model) when a couple of years ago they were 1k less, so the people selling them used I think are just glad to get their money back, so they can be had for good money, and they're great value.

There have been some very unique limited colours in the past too, I really wanted a Lava Pearl, but went with a Graphite pearl.
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-05-2010, 07:55 PM
 
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Re: IBANEZ RGA420Z (New prestiege) or MUSIMAN JP6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fun111 View Post
JP6 and RGA are totally different guitars. The necks on the MM are tiny, very thin and narrow, and the pickups on the jp are much clearer and more 'traditional' sounding, even though the crunch lab is seriously hot.

Piezo doesn't mean good cleans, I HATED the Piezo pickup on my JP. Great through an acoustic amp or a JC120, but it sounded really awful through my Roadster. However, the middle position on the pickup selector (where it splits both pickups) sounded excellent for cleans.

The JP6 is easier to buy used, which I recommend, the prices went up recently and are now insane (here, about 2200 for a standard model) when a couple of years ago they were 1k less, so the people selling them used I think are just glad to get their money back, so they can be had for good money, and they're great value.

There have been some very unique limited colours in the past too, I really wanted a Lava Pearl, but went with a Graphite pearl.
I hope I'm misreading this, but if you expected to run the piezo by itself through a Roadster & expected anything pleasing to tickle you ears, you shouldn't be surprised that you didn't. Perhaps when blended with the magnetic pickups, but never alone. Those piezo elements are truly meant to be run into a processor/P.A. and not through an electric guitar amp. Unless it's a JC120, it's gonna sound awful.

That being said, the piezo on my Parker sounds great through my Zoom A2 and into the board and on out to the P.A. system. We're talking pretty darn good. Not Taylor acoustic good, but more than passable for acoustic sounds from an electric.

Regarding the guitars: If you've got the money for either, I'd go with the Music Man. I love Ibanez, but the JP6 I tried out nearly played itself. It had a feeling of quality that was on par with or slightly better than my Jem. Also, it's got pretty hot DiMarzios already in there. I don't care if they're passive or active, but anything that comes stock on Ibanez that is made by Ibanez is an inferior pickup & should be changed out by anyone serious about their guitar. Pickups more than anything are, IMO, Ibanez' Achilles heel. Paying over a grand for an Ibanez without DiMarzio's is a crime....
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-05-2010, 08:06 PM
 
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Re: IBANEZ RGA420Z (New prestiege) or MUSIMAN JP6

My point was; the OP wishes to use the Piezo to get good cleans, has he got another amp with which to do so or is he hoping to get it through his guitar amp... Which obviously sounds like ass. Contrary to what I said above, I actually don't like the sound of piezo's on solidbodies at all, what I should have said was 'it wasn't as bad'. Even through my JC160 it really didn't appeal to me. Each to one's own.

You clearly didn't misread it because you essentially agreed with me :-S
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