J-Custom & Prestige confusion - What makes a J-C a J-C? - Page 4 - Jemsite
All Other Guitars (including Prestige) Discussion about other Ibanez Guitars not covered in the above topics. Includes J-Custom, USA-Custom, Prestige subforum.

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post #46 of 231 (permalink) Old 05-15-2002, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jemsite
Kev if you want to debate, please exercise independant thought after reading replies... instead of simply RECITING...glen
What in the bluehell are you talking about?
Can someone please tell me what he's talking about?

Quote:
...the "six-step neck" (ie. marketing lingo) is...
That's marketing lingo? I thought it was a physical process. Call me kooky....

Rich- the GEAR's aren't routed; they're cut with a laser. Try that type of cut and inlay with a regular router, you'll get 10x the gaps.
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post #47 of 231 (permalink) Old 05-15-2002, 06:08 PM
 
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I'm certainly not going to argue the subjectivity of playability and looks. The "driftwood" tops that have been discussed in other threads have taken the wind out of that argument. To me personally, J Customs are personified by the original 1997 models: ART, ARCH, METAL, GEAR, S540Japan. Those are the models that REALLY set the J Customs apart from any other production model.

Again, my point was that the biggest CURRENT differences between J Customs and the other models is most likely due to the "details": cosmetic differences, etc. Although, even from playing the most recent release of J Customs (the 3 models from last year), I'm convinced that there are DEFINITELY differences in finishing, etc. Out of the box, each of the 3 models released last year played MUCH better than any other Prestige or Signature model. I was lucky enough to be present when my favorite local store unpacked them, along with a VWH and a couple of RG3120s. It's still hard to have a dead-on, fact-filled opinion though without having access to the full line of J Customs though.
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post #48 of 231 (permalink) Old 05-15-2002, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevan
Riddle me this, Batman:
According to *YOU*, the Prestiges are simply re-labeled J-Customs.
Show us an RG-9570 (in either color), or an S9870-CRS, with "Prestige" on the headstock.
Conversely, show us a 3120 with "J-Custom" on the headstock.
I'm hoping this will shut you up once and for all, but then I might as well ask to be the King of England!

Conversely, show us a 3120 with "J-Custom" on the headstock

OK, you tell me what YOU see, color aside, same pickups, TZ, PAF Pro.


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post #49 of 231 (permalink) Old 05-15-2002, 09:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Rich
The RG1680x I just shipped had very nice fret end finishing, much better than a 3120.
Hell, yeah! That's what I like to hear!

--B
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post #50 of 231 (permalink) Old 05-15-2002, 09:28 PM
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Rich- it looks a lot like a 3120, save for the color (no green 3120's that I know of) and the pickups (JC's tend to have AN/TZ combinations, and that looks like TZ/AN).
The headstock tells us all we need to know: it's a J-Custom. End of debate.

Glen- look, you're in a HUGE hole here. Instead of digging further, or trying to wiggle out of it, just admit that you were wrong, apologize, and we can move on.
It's not like I'm asking for my Mod. status back or anything...
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post #51 of 231 (permalink) Old 05-15-2002, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevan
Rich- it looks a lot like a 3120, save for the color (no green 3120's that I know of) and the pickups (JC's tend to have AN/TZ combinations, and that looks like TZ/AN).
The headstock tells us all we need to know: it's a J-Custom. End of debate.

Glen- look, you're in a HUGE hole here. Instead of digging further, or trying to wiggle out of it, just admit that you were wrong, apologize, and we can move on.
GIVE IT A REST ALREADY!
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post #52 of 231 (permalink) Old 05-15-2002, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevan
Rich- it looks a lot like a 3120, save for the color (no green 3120's that I know of) and the pickups (JC's tend to have AN/TZ combinations, and that looks like TZ/AN).
The headstock tells us all we need to know: it's a J-Custom. End of debate.
Sorry, I was under the impression you asked to see a 3120 that said J Custom on the headstock, and when you get right down to it, 1 different pickup and different color doesn't change what you're looking at, A 3120 THAT SAYS J CUSTOM ON THE HEAD!!!
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post #53 of 231 (permalink) Old 05-16-2002, 12:58 AM
 
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As much as I hate to say this...

Personally, in regards to QC, playability, tone, wood choice, etc., I have yet to see any significant difference between J-Customs and Prestiges. And I can back this statement, I've had my fair share of both J-Customs (RG6CST, RG1880, RG-ART, soon to come RG1680x) and Prestiges (two RG3120's, RGT3120, RG2020x, RG7CT). While the J-Customs have had something unique that sets them apart from the Prestiges (the piezos on the CST at the time, the flame maple binding/5 piece neck on the 1880, the hand-painted finish on the ART), most Prestiges & J-Customs feel basically the same, look like basically the same, and sound basically the same to me.

That said, why do I even bother with J-Customs? Two reasons. One, there are the little things that set some J-Custom models apart. There is no RG-ART Prestige with a hand-painted top. There are no Prestige models with 5-piece maple-bound necks. Heck, for a long time there were no Prestige models with piezo pickups. Second, I like the variety: Ibanez doesn't crank out enough mahogany Prestige models to keep me occupied... I like to have guitars with lots of different pickup configurations and finishes, and the J-Customs provide that variety I'm looking for. Would I pay $800 more for a 3120 because it says J-Custom on the headstock? Heck no! Would I pay a slight premium to get a 1680 J-Custom instead of a 3120 Prestige because it has a different finish and different pickup configuration? You bet!

To me, it feels like Chevrolet & Pontiac. At the end of the day, they're basically the same cars. They share lots of similar parts. They look somewhat similar. They probably drive somewhat similarly. Maybe they even came off the same assembly line... Vettes only have the Chevy label on them. Those are your high-end, rare J-Customs like the ART, Gear, Metal, etc. But that doesn't mean that everything that Chevy produces is a Vette--there are Impalas and Cavaliers and Monte Carlos. Those are your more frequently occuring J-Customs like the 1680, 1880, etc. And Pontiac doesn't even offer anything close to a Vette, but there's a lot of similarity elsewhere in the product line--like the Grand Ams and Sunfires and Grand Prixs. Those are your more frequently occuring Prestige models like the 3120, 2020, 2027, etc.

At the end of the day, both J-Customs and Prestiges are great guitars. Is there hype? Occasionally. Is there truth to the hype? Occasionally. Is it any different than people hyping up Jems and UV's? Probably not, but until they start making mahogany Jems you can bet your sweet a$$ I'd take a J-Custom or Prestige over a Jem any day of the week.

--B
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post #54 of 231 (permalink) Old 05-16-2002, 01:20 AM
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No rest until you apologize and admit to being wrong.
These shoes suck, huh? Guess what- now it's your turn to wear them.

Rich- so you're saying a JS-1 is pretty much a JS-3? Well, like you said: "...when you get right down to it, 1 different pickup and different color doesn't change what you're looking at...".
There is no "JS-1 Donnie" and there is no "green 3120". Simple.
(BTW- the tuners got there. Thanks!)
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post #55 of 231 (permalink) Old 05-16-2002, 01:27 AM
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Uh, yea, a JS1 is a JS3 without the paint job. It's only a JS 3 because of the paintjob!! Underneath it's the same guitar (with possibly a little more inspection of the parts sent to build them)

There is a green 3120, it just has a J Custom badge on it
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post #56 of 231 (permalink) Old 05-16-2002, 01:35 AM
 
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Well, we even got someone from Hoshino to try and clear this up, and yet we're right back where we started. Just like that annoying broken record effect of that god-foresaken Pink song that plays in my head. ...you better get this party started.

Anyways, back to my point. Maybe this is a subject best left untouched. Ibanez/Hoshino USA seems quite content with the mystique surrounding the J-Custom line. Maybe it's better that way? Maybe that in fact is the marketing behind it? I mean, how many everyday guitarists can say they've seen a J-Custom? Usually when a shop (I'm talking the family types) gets something like this in, it's a big deal. I remember my store had a S5400NT in for a while (which I regret not buying, but I didn't know any better). It was somewhat of a centerpiece for the shop, much like when the DNA's first arrived. It was a guitar no one had seen before and probably no one would see again. Granted there are plenty of "ordinary" J-Customs that don't draw much attention... there are those ones out there that do just that. That's what the line is all about to me. Now, maybe it is true that an RG-ART is just an RG-570 (or whatever) with a nice top... but for Ibanez to just come out and say that, to confirm it, would really ruin any dignification the J-Custom name might carry.

Of course, all that I said most likely doesn't matter and this thread and others like it will continue to be more pointless battles between glen/kevan/rich that exude no useful results.

For what it's worth, looks and asthetics aside... the only real difference I've noticed in the J-Custom line is superior fret work. I've played far too many RG3120s that have high e strings falling off the fretboard (which I suppose would be more in the neck, but regardless) and most Prestige guitars seem to have frets seemingly untouched from when they were put on. They aren't horrible, just not great. The J-Customs aren't perfect either, but seem to have much neater fretwork (no frets hanging over the edge of the fretboard) and seem to be crowned a lot nicer. That's my experience at least.

Let the battles resume.
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post #57 of 231 (permalink) Old 05-16-2002, 01:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevan
These shoes suck, huh? Guess what- now it's your turn to wear them.
my shoes are real comfy

you see black and white only... nothing inbetween. Your zealotry has opened up a can of worms that if i were Ibanez, I would probably prefer remain closed. Personally speaking, i could care less... it's trivial really. I can now see why they are hush-hush about details like this that are for the most part IRRELEVANT to 99.9% of CUSTOMERS anyways.

I know you are trying to propegate the faith in J-Custom, but in fact your religious fervor is only going to create negative publicity overall. You don't see that now, but sit back and enjoy the show

Now, if and when I have clearance to post more info, you will get the official ibanez corporate line and an un-biased editorial that calls the shots EXACTLY as they were landed. No spin, no BS. Just the "official facts" and real-life working examples of the information that was supplied. From there we can all make our own judgements... because life is full of "grey".

Enjoy.
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post #58 of 231 (permalink) Old 05-16-2002, 09:15 AM Thread Starter
 
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Hey, this is quintessential Jemsite...gotta love it!

I appreciate Jay13 posting from Hoshino (although rumor has it that it's Kevan in disguise).

Jay R. has a good point about the mystique. I agree with Glen on the "grey" perspective. One example (if I may throw a small wrench in the works) is the "Texas Prestige" guitars...I've owned 4, still have one. It says Prestige on the headstock, but the extra features and detail place them more in a JC-style category (ebony boards, amazing quilt/flame tops, abalone trim, limited numbers, etc). An Ibanez rep at a guitar show gave me the impression that JCs are manufactured in the same place as Prestige, but now we've heard something contrary. The "Grey Mystique" remains.
Greg
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post #59 of 231 (permalink) Old 05-16-2002, 10:32 AM
 
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I think that the term "mystique" is perfectly fitting. I think it's already been said, but maybe it'd be better to leave it as a "mystery" and just agree to disagree when it comes to the merits of J Customs over Prestiges, etc. Whether or not they are made in the same shop or not seems irrelevant. The J Customs are made for Japan/Europe ONLY distribution, and as a whole, have several differences from most of the Prestige & other models. As Brent said...I lke the J Customs because they ARE different. They aren't like the RG3120's that you see half a dozen of everytime you walk into Guitar Center. When I take my RG-ART or RG-ARCH to a gig, I never fail to get FAR more compliments/comments than I do when I've taken my JEMs or the RGT3120. They're different, they're mostly unique, and I like them better. Does that mean they're better guitars? That's far too subjective to really quantify. I happen to think that they are, even if it's ever so slightly. But, just as one flamed maple top is different than another...so are guitars. And people's tastes for that matter! I love J Customs. I'm also very fond of my JEMs & JS', and my RGT3120 is great! If it came down to having to sell either my RG-ARCH or my GMC...I think I'd end up keeping the ARCH. But...to each their own
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post #60 of 231 (permalink) Old 05-16-2002, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jemsite
I know you are trying to propegate the faith in J-Custom, but in fact your religious fervor is only going to create negative publicity overall.
Holy projection, Batman!
You've done nothing but bash JC's since they came off the boat in 1996. You've done the same thing with 555's and I have faith that you'll do it with the 333's as well.
If *ANYONE* is creating negative publicity about the JC line(and/or negative "hype", as you so like to say), it would be you, Glen. Examples abound in this topic and all over the rest of the site (For a good time, compare the USAC FAQ to the JC FAQ), and the entire Forum knows about it. Don't try to pawn it off on me being a zealot or some sort of religious follower. Facts are facts, and "word from the manufacturer" is as close as you or I are going to get. Stop trying to twist it around, or wiggle out of being wrong. Accept it. It's over.

Just admit that you were wrong, and apologize. Be done with it.

Greg- When I first read Jay13's post I thought, "Oh great...Glen will immediately think that's me." Guess I wasn't too far off. The truth is, it's not me. Sorry folks- pay your bets. :-)
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