J-custom RG8550 Vs Prestige RG2770. Why is the custom worth +$1,000? - Page 2 - Jemsite
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post #16 of 88 (permalink) Old 10-31-2016, 07:13 AM
 
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Re: J-custom RG8550 Vs Prestige RG2770. Why is the custom worth +$1,000?

Any chance this may help?

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/acces...#productDetail

Guitar is more than beautiful.

Last edited by peromucho7; 10-31-2016 at 12:12 PM.
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post #17 of 88 (permalink) Old 10-31-2016, 08:20 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: J-custom RG8550 Vs Prestige RG2770. Why is the custom worth +$1,000?

Quote:
Originally Posted by peromucho7 View Post
Thank you very much for the information! I considered that when I was playing with the S5470 but I forgot about it.

As soon as I've read your post I've run to put a couple of C-Clamps on the headstock. I've run so much that I've spilled blood everywhere after nailing the end of a string to my finger. I am wondering if the blood will improve the tone.

It actually makes a difference. Still not perfect, but I've placed them randomly and in pain. I am definitely going to buy that Fatfinger thing.

Thank you!


Last edited by pingfloid; 03-15-2019 at 08:30 PM. Reason: Update image link
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post #18 of 88 (permalink) Old 10-31-2016, 08:40 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: J-custom RG8550 Vs Prestige RG2770. Why is the custom worth +$1,000?

ps: somebody must send that picture to Hoshino Gakki, please!
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post #19 of 88 (permalink) Old 10-31-2016, 09:30 AM
 
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Re: J-custom RG8550 Vs Prestige RG2770. Why is the custom worth +$1,000?

I would check the bridge for any issues, one of my guitars have edge zero and it just has so many moving parts which have caused some issues which edge, lo-pro edge do not have. Mine had this weird noise coming from it when I did a bend on high-e around the 12th fret, but vanished when I put some light oil "under the fine tuner" (hard to describe).

One of my JEM's had sustain issue very recently, it happened especially on second string and especially around the frets 21-24 for some reason. The note just decayed very rapidly and suddenly, even on the very last fret. One thing might have caused it was that I had intonation screw in the "first hole" (the one closer to pickups) and the screw was very near the edge (a bit past), it kept the saddle piece in place but I suspect it might have caused the saddle some space to move with the string and thus decaying the not quicker, especially on the high notes where the string movement is very small. I moved it to the other hole (it could have been there in the first place based on the intonation), adjusted the setup a bit etc. and it's much better now.

Anyhow, it might be the dead notes (which would be a shame), but maybe it's on the bridge, maybe some notes / frequencies cause vibration in the mechanical, moving parts on the bridge which kill's the sustain. Maybe some tiny amount of oil on some of the moving parts, make sure everything which needs to be tight are tight etc.
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post #20 of 88 (permalink) Old 10-31-2016, 09:44 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: J-custom RG8550 Vs Prestige RG2770. Why is the custom worth +$1,000?

Thank you for the tips. I will dismount and inspect every part of the bridge the next time that I change the strings. I'll also try to readjust the intonation.

I've already introduced pieces of paper between the saddles, to prevent unwanted vibration, but it has made no difference.
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post #21 of 88 (permalink) Old 10-31-2016, 11:56 AM
 
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Re: J-custom RG8550 Vs Prestige RG2770. Why is the custom worth +$1,000?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pingfloid View Post
Thank you very much for the information! I considered that when I was playing with the S5470 but I forgot about it.

As soon as I've read your post I've run to put a couple of C-Clamps on the headstock. I've run so much that I've spilled blood everywhere after nailing the end of a string to my finger. I am wondering if the blood will improve the tone.

It actually makes a difference. Still not perfect, but I've placed them randomly and in pain. I am definitely going to buy that Fatfinger thing.

Thank you!

J-custom DNA ?
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post #22 of 88 (permalink) Old 10-31-2016, 02:07 PM
 
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Re: J-custom RG8550 Vs Prestige RG2770. Why is the custom worth +$1,000?

Double check to make sure all nuts and bolts are tightly secured, especially at the neck joint and bridge. Like mentioned above, a saddle can be loose, or needs to be adjusted. So double check intonation as well, make sure it's dead on. Luckily, adjusting intonation is quick and easy with the edge zero. You could also try removing the ZPS system at the back if you have not yet, and also replacing the new stiff springs with older, more broken in springs. Also, if you haven't during your setup, install the locking studs and lube the knife edges with Chapstick.

I know what you're talking about in a sense. The 15th fret on the B string of my RG3120 rings out more like a harmonic for some reason and decays fairly quickly as well, unless I press a little harder than usual. It bugged me a bit, but wasn't a huge deal.. I just have to press a little harder if I'm going to ring it out.

I had an edge zero once with what I believe had a base plate issue. They are cheaper base plates than the previous gotoh made trems. If I used anything less than 10s, the low E and A saddles would vibrate, they had quite a bit of play in them, and I could hear it when doing palm mutes / half palm mutes. I swapped saddles around with the other strings, but no luck. Luckily for me, I don't mind 10s.

Lastly, what's the rest of your setup like? Do you have a noise gate? If so, have you tried with it off?
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post #23 of 88 (permalink) Old 10-31-2016, 06:24 PM
 
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Re: J-custom RG8550 Vs Prestige RG2770. Why is the custom worth +$1,000?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pingfloid View Post
As an engineer I would say that, theoretically, the ZR2 would have a slightly better (perhaps insignificant) transition of vibrational energy from the strings to the body of the guitar, therefore better resonance and sustain, because the surface of the contact point at the ball-bearings is larger than the contact point at the knives. But I can imagine that there may already be long discussions about this in another threads.
In an entirely theoretical sense - yes. But from a practical standpoint, not necessarily. I took the ZR2 out of my S5470 and replaced it with the Edge Zero and it sustains loads better. I got the idea to do that from the fact that the SV5470 (S5470 with a non-locking ball bearing trem) suffers from the sustain issue, but the EGEN18 (literally a S5470 with an Edge Zero) does not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pingfloid View Post
There are RG prestiges (not S series) that have the ZR2. Has anyone reported sustain problems with those?
As far as I know there aren't any stock RG's with the Edge Zero. I actually got the Edge Zero that's now in the S5470 from my RG, and put the ZR2 in my RG3570. Now my RG3570 sustains like ****.
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post #24 of 88 (permalink) Old 10-31-2016, 06:28 PM
 
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Re: J-custom RG8550 Vs Prestige RG2770. Why is the custom worth +$1,000?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pingfloid View Post
The RG8550M already has an Edge Zero, not a ZR2, and I'm having the sustain problem.
While I'm not saying that you don't have a problem with a lack of sustain in your particular example of this model, the problems with the S5470 were basically every guitar off the line. You might have got a dud guitar; generally I don't hear of too many guys with RG prestiges/J-customs complaining about sustain too much.

Also you were mentioning that the sustain dies off at a couple of specific notes on specific frets. The problems with the S5470 were more like "every note on a plain string above the 12th fret dies really fast" rather than at some specific frequency.
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post #25 of 88 (permalink) Old 10-31-2016, 08:45 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: J-custom RG8550 Vs Prestige RG2770. Why is the custom worth +$1,000?

Thank you for providing more details about the ZR2 tremolo. It is good to know that you increased the sustain by replacing it with the Edge Zero. Perhaps the technical explanation is that the ball bearings are subject to vibration by themselves, while the contact point at the Edge Zero is between two fixed parts.

Here is the RG prestige with the ZR2:
http://www.ibanez.co.jp/products/eg_...ies_id=2&pre=1
I am curious to know if they have any issue with lack of sustain caused by the tremolo.


I have already removed the ZPS system and I am not using noise gate. The problem is very accentuated and annoying, even with compressor and distortion. I should record a video if I have time.

I think that it is important to differentiate between vibrational issues at the bridge and a dead-note of the guitar (ie: the guitar body absorbing/cancelling a particular frequency), because they are very different things. I hope that I can have an answer once I review all the recommendations to verify the bridge that you have kindly given to me.

The U-clamp makes me believe that it could be a dead-note, but I still have to discard any issue with the bridge, since it could be a combination of both things.

In the meantime, I have already ordered the Fatfinger from ebay.

Last edited by pingfloid; 11-01-2016 at 08:51 PM.
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post #26 of 88 (permalink) Old 11-04-2016, 09:31 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: J-custom RG8550 Vs Prestige RG2770. Why is the custom worth +$1,000?

I’ve found something that I think is quite relevant:

Playing unplugged with the ear attached to the rear side of the neck, all notes are heard at similar volume except 3rd string 17th fret that is ear-piercing. It sounds very loud for an instant, and it dies abruptly.

This leads me to believe that the dead-spot does not come from the guitar body or from the bridge but from the neck. This neck may have a resonating frequency of 523 Hz. It vibrates at the same frequency of that note and absorbs the string movement drastically.

And what do the S5470Q and the RG8550MZ have in common? The KTS Titanium rods!!

Not in vain, they are also called ‘Tone-Resonant Titanium KTS”, although I used to believe that its main mission is to reinforce the neck.



I would appreciate if those of you with titanium rods on your guitar necks could verify it there are dead spots at the 2nd or 3rd string above the 12th fret

Last edited by pingfloid; 03-15-2019 at 08:31 PM.
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post #27 of 88 (permalink) Old 11-04-2016, 08:09 PM
 
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Re: J-custom RG8550 Vs Prestige RG2770. Why is the custom worth +$1,000?

I think it is a combination of several things....all that you have mentioned. I believe the Edge zero has some type of rubber buffering tape under the saddles. I could be wrong on that one though....I didn't bother taking my latest apart. One of my early J Customs, when the EZ bridge first came out had an ungodly rattle when playing certain notes. I had a saddle replaced and it still didn't solve the issue. I've had an 8550MZ for a year now since they came out and I had the same issues with it that you have had. I lost sustain on the second and third strings above the 12th. A beautiful guitar in every way. I love the functionality and design of the Edge Zero but I've grown tired of the sustain issues. I was contemplating one of those KGC brass blocks to counteract some of it but decided not to bother. I've had some decent luck with the bridge in the past though.

That being said, I just sold it a few weeks back along with my Jem7V7 and my other J Custom. The 7V7 was awesome but it had to go to make way for what I was getting. I've been using Ibanez since 1982 and sadly, I no longer own any for the first time ever. They make great guitars but it is time for me to move on but will always have a special place in my heart.

Last edited by PBGas; 11-04-2016 at 08:15 PM.
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post #28 of 88 (permalink) Old 11-05-2016, 12:00 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: J-custom RG8550 Vs Prestige RG2770. Why is the custom worth +$1,000?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PBGas View Post
I think it is a combination of several things....all that you have mentioned. I believe the Edge zero has some type of rubber buffering tape under the saddles. I could be wrong on that one though....I didn't bother taking my latest apart. One of my early J Customs, when the EZ bridge first came out had an ungodly rattle when playing certain notes. I had a saddle replaced and it still didn't solve the issue. I've had an 8550MZ for a year now since they came out and I had the same issues with it that you have had. I lost sustain on the second and third strings above the 12th. A beautiful guitar in every way. I love the functionality and design of the Edge Zero but I've grown tired of the sustain issues. I was contemplating one of those KGC brass blocks to counteract some of it but decided not to bother. I've had some decent luck with the bridge in the past though.

That being said, I just sold it a few weeks back along with my Jem7V7 and my other J Custom. The 7V7 was awesome but it had to go to make way for what I was getting. I've been using Ibanez since 1982 and sadly, I no longer own any for the first time ever. They make great guitars but it is time for me to move on but will always have a special place in my heart.
Thank you for sharing your experience. This is very frustrating!

I had to sell the new S5470Q at almost half price and then decided to buy a more expensive and better crafted guitar in order to avoid problems (hence the reason for this thread). I am not rich! this was a gift I made to myself on my 50th birthday stretching my savings to give me the pleasure of playing a “state-of-the-art” guitar.

The j-custom is even WORST than the S5470Q. Besides the sustain problems, all the C notes at the 1st, 2nd and 3rd strings sound like crap. It is hard to notice with clean sound, but when playing with a little bit of gain or overdrive, the sound is absolutely disgusting. That is probably due to the nasty phase cancelations between the guitar resonance and the string vibration.

The more songs I play with this guitar, the more times I find myself playing a crap note. I am starting to lose the enchantment of the honeymoon with the pretty j-custom.


I should have just spend some money re-fretting my old RG550LTD and replacing the worn-out lo-pro edge. That guitar has absolutely no problems with the sustain, the playability is excellent, and it sounds amazing with the Dimarzio Gravity Storm.



Last edited by pingfloid; 11-05-2016 at 12:11 AM.
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post #29 of 88 (permalink) Old 11-05-2016, 03:20 AM
 
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Re: J-custom RG8550 Vs Prestige RG2770. Why is the custom worth +$1,000?

@pingfloid: Interesting observation about the KTS titanium rods. Unfortunately (or fortunately?), I don't have any guitars with KTS rods, so I wouldn't be able to test that. My "newest" RG is the 2009 JCRG8570z. I think that's the last year before they started using the KTS rods.

@PBGas & @pingfloid: My 8570z has an edge zero, but I've never noticed any notable sustain issues on any frets, or crappy sounding notes like you are observing. Like PBGas, I noted that I had rattling with an edge zero with the first 2 saddles. It was noticeable when playing at low volumes. Swapping the saddles around didn't fix it. It happened when palm muting using 9s.. there was too much play in those 2 saddles and not enough tension from the strings to hold them down. When I switched to 10s the rattle went away.

Like PBGas mentioned, the edge zero has a small tone block. You could try one of those heavier brass upgrades. I've been fortunate with sustain on my edge zero equipped RGs (used to have an RG3570z and now my 8570z), but I've heard people complain about the small tone blocks.

I'm also wondering, if it's not the bridge, could something be wrong with the body? I'm thinking along the lines like when the JEM7vwh's had that intonation issue that couldn't be fixed because the issue was within the manufacturing of the body. Did you have any issues setting your intonation?
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post #30 of 88 (permalink) Old 11-05-2016, 03:34 AM
 
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Re: J-custom RG8550 Vs Prestige RG2770. Why is the custom worth +$1,000?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pingfloid View Post
Thank you for sharing your experience. This is very frustrating!

I had to sell the new S5470Q at almost half price and then decided to buy a more expensive and better crafted guitar in order to avoid problems (hence the reason for this thread). I am not rich! this was a gift I made to myself on my 50th birthday stretching my savings to give me the pleasure of playing a “state-of-the-art” guitar.

The j-custom is even WORST than the S5470Q. Besides the sustain problems, all the C notes at the 1st, 2nd and 3rd strings sound like crap. It is hard to notice with clean sound, but when playing with a little bit of gain or overdrive, the sound is absolutely disgusting. That is probably due to the nasty phase cancelations between the guitar resonance and the string vibration.

The more songs I play with this guitar, the more times I find myself playing a crap note. I am starting to lose the enchantment of the honeymoon with the pretty j-custom.


I should have just spend some money re-fretting my old RG550LTD and replacing the worn-out lo-pro edge. That guitar has absolutely no problems with the sustain, the playability is excellent, and it sounds amazing with the Dimarzio Gravity Storm.


What equipment are you using? Amp? Procesor?
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