NGD '93 SV470 - HELP with restoration work please! - Jemsite
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-27-2014, 03:08 PM Thread Starter
 
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NGD '93 SV470 - HELP with restoration work please!

Hi guys, I bought this í93 SV470 on CL yesterday for $150! It's been badly neglected, and it shows, but I couldnít pass it up for $150. Even if I have to dump a couple hundred bucks into getting it restored I'll still have a nice MIJ Sabre for under $400. I love the wood grain look and have always wanted a guitar with that look. The guitar was modified by a shop in CA called Brigham and there was some nice work done with the custom wood work around the pup rings, pup switch and wood knobs.

Iím also surprised at how resonant this guitar is with nice sustain even though itís so light. I have another MIJ Sabre and it is not as resonant as this guitar, but the vintage trem probably helps with that. It has no cracks and seems structurally sound and there is still lots of meat on the frets.

This guitar feels really nice and Iím pretty stoked about getting it for $150 BUT itís in rough shape and it needs some work and TLC. This is where I need help - I would be extremely grateful if you guys could give me some advice on how to get this guitar back to a closer likeness of its former glory.

The body has quite a bit of damage around the pickups (as you can see in photos). It also had a sticker on it and when I took it off it peeled up some stain and wood so now there is a rough spot in the shape of the sticker (see pic #5). So I have several questions about next steps to restore the body.

First, itís dirty (even smells funky) can I just wash it with a damp soapy cloth or should I just use guitar polish?

The body damage is going to be the most work - can I just take everything off the body and sand it? Dry or wet? What kind of sandpaper? When I sand it I can see that the stain will come off and it will be a lighter color so I guess I will have to sand down the whole front of the body and re-stain? What do you use for stain? How will I match the color?

Also the neck is out of alignment, which you can see in one of the photos. Iím assuming I can just loosen the bolts and it should move a bit Ė but Iím not sure if there are measurements or if I should just eyeball it?

Also, I like locking machine heads on my non-locking trem guitars and I am wondering what kind of locking tuners will fit without having to ream the holes a different size. Schaller or Sperzel or Fender?

Any suggestions and advice will be greatly appreciated!

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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-27-2014, 04:18 PM
 
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Re: NGD '93 SV470 - HELP with restoration work please!

Honestly that doesn't look too bad and should really take not much more than elbow grease to fix. I actually kind of like the wood pieces they put on it.

To clean it, I'd hit it with naptha and steel wool. You're going to lose the finish on the body but that's OK. I'd definitely lightly sand it, just enough to strip the finish and even things out. I'd go no rougher than 240 grit. You'll have to do a tung or Tru-oil finish on it.

For the tuners, you could put locking Gotoh ones on there and they should drop right in. You could also look at the Gotoh EV510T-FE trem if you wanted a nice new gold trem. Those should be drop in and having locking studs as well.

Oh and another upgrade you should consider with the locking tuners, a Graphtech Black TUSQ XL nut.
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-27-2014, 04:54 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: NGD '93 SV470 - HELP with restoration work please!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Takin' a Ride View Post
Honestly that doesn't look too bad and should really take not much more than elbow grease to fix. I actually kind of like the wood pieces they put on it.

To clean it, I'd hit it with naptha and steel wool. You're going to lose the finish on the body but that's OK. I'd definitely lightly sand it, just enough to strip the finish and even things out. I'd go no rougher than 240 grit. You'll have to do a tung or Tru-oil finish on it.

For the tuners, you could put locking Gotoh ones on there and they should drop right in. You could also look at the Gotoh EV510T-FE trem if you wanted a nice new gold trem. Those should be drop in and having locking studs as well.

Oh and another upgrade you should consider with the locking tuners, a Graphtech Black TUSQ XL nut.
Thanks! =) I really like the custom wood pieces that are on it so those will be staying for sure.

I think I need a little more detail if you can share more... I have no idea what you're talking about with naptha…do I have to do that or can I just sand lightly and then oil? will the tung or tru-oil darken it a bit? because when I sand it is going to come out quite a bit lighter but I like the darker finish...

Last edited by doriangrey; 10-27-2014 at 05:14 PM.
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-27-2014, 04:57 PM
 
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Re: NGD '93 SV470 - HELP with restoration work please!

subscribed to this one. yeah man, this shouldn't be too much trouble. Takin' a Ride has you going in the right direction
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-27-2014, 07:35 PM
 
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Re: NGD '93 SV470 - HELP with restoration work please!

Jesse really has you on the right track. No matter what you do, you'll have to re-apply some color if you really want it to stay darker. No, the tru-oil nor the tung-oil will darken the light spots.

Honestly, If I had picked it up- I would use #120 grit paper on a sanding sponge (lightly) to get the majority of the original finish off. Then I would use #00 steel wool to clean up whatever remains. The results of those two steps would determine which direction to go in next. I would personally like to keep the lighter, non-stained color on the body so I could better show off the beautiful scroll work someone did on the rings and switch cover. They really disappear with the darker body color.

I've been experimenting with two part clear epoxy lately. It leaves a clear, super hard, sealer for the body that, when hit with #0000 steel wool, leaves a nice satin look. It can also take a 2k clear over it without any problems. You can use either gloss or satin clear on it.
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-27-2014, 08:17 PM
 
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Re: NGD '93 SV470 - HELP with restoration work please!

I don't think that this guitar is stained. I think what you're seeing is the oil finish with a ton of grime in it, which has become very dark. My RBM2 was like this. It also stank horribly when I got it.

Naptha is a solvent. If you fully disassemble the body and take 0000 steel wool and basically rub out the whole thing with that soaked in the naptha, you should strip the finish pretty easily. You would also try mineral spirits if the oil won't dissolve in the naptha. The method described above could work, too. I just hate the idea of taking an aggressive abrasive to the guitar. I think my method should work with much less wood removal. It's what I used on my RBM2.

If you really want to get into doing an oil finish, you could post a thread in the tech setup & mods forum.
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-27-2014, 08:36 PM
 
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Re: NGD '93 SV470 - HELP with restoration work please!

Also, not personally a fan of the black knobs on this. I think a set of gold Gibson top hat knobs would look great on this.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PRHK020

And these tuners would drop right in:

http://www.philadelphialuthiertools....chine-6l-gold/
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-27-2014, 09:09 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: NGD '93 SV470 - HELP with restoration work please!

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Originally Posted by Takin' a Ride View Post
Also, not personally a fan of the black knobs on this. I think a set of gold Gibson top hat knobs would look great on this.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PRHK020

And these tuners would drop right in:

http://www.philadelphialuthiertools....chine-6l-gold/
Thanks guys! I genuinely appreciate the help and advice - thank you very much for taking the time!!! =)

Those knobs are actually made of wood - they didn't show up in the photos well but they are custom wood knobs made by the same guy that did the pup rings and piece around the pup switch - it's all the same wood. I think I'd like to try and keep the wood knobs to go with the rest of the custom woodwork on it - but one of the knobs is in rough shape so I might not be able to save them =[

those tuners look very nice and are a reasonable price but the only gold ones I can find available online are for 3R and 3L. Can't seem to find that Gotoh EV510T-FE trem in gold anywhere either but I sent an e-mail to allparts to see if they could order it in for me.

Regarding refinishing, I think I like the idea of starting with the Naptha before actually sanding wood off. If I do that then what do I need to do after the Naptha? Would I be done after that?

I didn't think about starting a thread in the tech setup & mods area but I can certainly do that. =]
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-28-2014, 12:21 AM
 
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Re: NGD '93 SV470 - HELP with restoration work please!

Just came across this place. Should be perfect for you.

http://japarts.ca/
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-28-2014, 07:57 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: NGD '93 SV470 - HELP with restoration work please!

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Originally Posted by Takin' a Ride View Post
Just came across this place. Should be perfect for you.

http://japarts.ca/
Thanks! And they are in North Vancouver, which is only about 40 minutes from where I live.

How do you know what Gotoh parts will fit an Ibanez? I emailed all parts and they have a EV510T-XG trem on clearance in antique gold but I have no idea if it will fit in the sv470 and they didn't know either. same with tuners - how do you know what fit? I searched the Gotoh site and it just says to ask the instrument manufacturer...
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-28-2014, 09:14 PM
 
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Re: NGD '93 SV470 - HELP with restoration work please!

Hey Ron- the EV510 will fit perfectly. The original bridge was a TZ-II which was also made by Gotoh. It had the same dimensions as the EV510.

For a cheaper solution- you can use the Gotoh-Wilkinson VS100N-HG This is a true wilkinson bridge with hardened saddles and base plate.

The original tuners were Gotoh SG381MG magnum lockers. The original design is getting hard to find. I don't know why, but nobody stocks them. You can go with the SG381MG-T for a perfect fit and finish. they lock from the back of the head instead of the top like the originals did.
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-29-2014, 03:54 PM
 
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Re: NGD '93 SV470 - HELP with restoration work please!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Takin' a Ride View Post
I don't think that this guitar is stained. I think what you're seeing is the oil finish with a ton of grime in it, which has become very dark. My RBM2 was like this. It also stank horribly when I got it.

Naptha is a solvent. If you fully disassemble the body and take 0000 steel wool and basically rub out the whole thing with that soaked in the naptha, you should strip the finish pretty easily. You would also try mineral spirits if the oil won't dissolve in the naptha. The method described above could work, too. I just hate the idea of taking an aggressive abrasive to the guitar. I think my method should work with much less wood removal. It's what I used on my RBM2.

If you really want to get into doing an oil finish, you could post a thread in the tech setup & mods forum.
Your correct Jesse, all the color is in the finish/clear. The spots that the sticker pulled up show that fact well.

Using #120 on a sanding pad won't remove any more material than necessary. I'm not a fan of wetting the wood until I'm ready to raise the grain to finish sand. Wet wood during finish removal can make it more difficult to see how much further you have to go, or if you've gone too far in any spot. Dry sanding with a couple of clean wiping cloths will keep you more informed as to where work needs to be done and where you've gone far enough. Switching between #120 and #00 steel wool will get the finish down quick enough to not make your arm hurt, but not so fast that you'll dig trenches into the body. I would also use a sanding block on the outer edges to prevent rounding them off.
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-29-2014, 04:04 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: NGD '93 SV470 - HELP with restoration work please!

Thanks Ryc! A Wilkinson bridge might be a better option for me - the EV510 looks very nice but it's also listed at $240...ouch. I have a Wilkinson VSVG in my main strat and it seems like Wilkinson products are well made.

I'm going get a quote on tuners and a bridge from japarts.ca and go from there. Their site says parts take 2 - 4 weeks so that will give me time to do some of the other work on the guitar. One of the pots is fried too - but pots are cheap so that's not biggie. I'm looking forward to working on the wood and getting the top looking nice again...as long as I don't screw something up

How do you know what parts will fit on certain guitars and what won't? Where are you getting that info - or is that just personal knowledge?
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-29-2014, 04:09 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: NGD '93 SV470 - HELP with restoration work please!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RGTFanatic View Post
Your correct Jesse, all the color is in the finish/clear. The spots that the sticker pulled up show that fact well.

Using #120 on a sanding pad won't remove any more material than necessary. I'm not a fan of wetting the wood until I'm ready to raise the grain to finish sand. Wet wood during finish removal can make it more difficult to see how much further you have to go, or if you've gone too far in any spot. Dry sanding with a couple of clean wiping cloths will keep you more informed as to where work needs to be done and where you've gone far enough. Switching between #120 and #00 steel wool will get the finish down quick enough to not make your arm hurt, but not so fast that you'll dig trenches into the body. I would also use a sanding block on the outer edges to prevent rounding them off.
I don't know what raising the grain really means nor do I know how to do that....starting to think I should take it to a luthier... =/

Maybe I should start a new thread in the tech setup & mods forum, as per Jesse's suggestion...
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-29-2014, 04:31 PM
 
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Re: NGD '93 SV470 - HELP with restoration work please!

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I don't know what raising the grain really means nor do I know how to do that....starting to think I should take it to a luthier... =/

Maybe I should start a new thread in the tech setup & mods forum, as per Jesse's suggestion...
You can start a new thread when your ready to start on the body. We'll be here the whole way, your not going to screw anything up. It will be easier than you think.

It was luck that I knew what bridge would work with your guitar. Ibanez used the TZ-II on the RT650 I had. I bought a Wilkinson VS100N as an upgrade for it. It was a perfect fit. I didn't have to change a thing. I sold the guitar to Satchmo72 with the original on it because, well, it was the original and in perfect condition. I'm going to use the VS on another build.
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