Peavey ---- Gibson we'll see - Jemsite
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-29-2009, 01:36 AM Thread Starter
 
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Peavey ---- Gibson we'll see

Well new rumors have apperantly surfaced out of both companies that HP wants to buy gibson. There are a few reasons why i think this may be valid given Gibson's situation.

Gibson's main distributor Guitar Center/Musicians f. is tanking and may even be liquidated, the recent raid on the gibson factory(and fines associated with it), lack of quality control and lack of innovation or even any clue as what guitar players are looking for.

Before anyone says anything about that last part i work in a music shop that carried gibson guitars and they have some hit or miss guitars. My Company is no longer a dealer for Gibson because Gibson wanted a $200,000 purchase for us to keep our dealership. All i have to do is point to the gibson zoot suit, reverse V, and shred series in order to prove the point that gibson doesn't what is going on.

Either way, I didn't open this thread to bash gibson but i am trying to prove the point that gibson is out of ideas and probably in a fair amount of debt. Peavey doesn't have a strong guitar line (i think thier stuff is fair quality and very consistent).

So what do you think? I think it is possible, and i think it would be good for both companies.
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-29-2009, 02:41 AM
 
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Re: Peavey ---- Gibson we'll see

HP as in Hewlett-Packard???
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-29-2009, 02:59 AM
 
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Re: Peavey ---- Gibson we'll see

Thanks for mentioning the Zoot Suit, hadn't heard of it before. God that's an awesome looking guitar.
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-29-2009, 03:31 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Peavey ---- Gibson we'll see

Hartley Peavey by HP . Yep the zoot suit is a real winner, they even tell they make it out birch ply.

The local guitar teacher has a limited edition reissue 81 silverburst V and is made of plywood. He was pissed needless to say.
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-29-2009, 01:06 PM
 
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Re: Peavey ---- Gibson we'll see

That's kinda old news. That rumor surfaced months ago. FWIW, I've heard that it has surfaced several times in the past few years.

I guess this thread is the official beginning of this rumor spreading to Jemsite? Ok, here it goes; *clears voice*

Peavey buying Gibson would probably mean a short-term increase in the price/value of Henry-era Gibsons and a short-term sales slump for Gibson as people adjust to new ownership and the perception that Peavey is, shall we say, a little "crass". I think it would even out because there would be a long-term increase in overall Gibson quality, crass or not, Hartley Peavey knows what he's doing. The collective hope is that Gibson would drop the gimmicks and just focus on making their time-tested guitars. No one buys a Les Paul because they want something innovative, anyway.

^^^^
All my opinion, of course.

Last edited by RedTiger; 12-29-2009 at 02:36 PM.
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-29-2009, 05:46 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Peavey ---- Gibson we'll see

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedTiger View Post
That's kinda old news. That rumor surfaced months ago. FWIW, I've heard that it has surfaced several times in the past few years.

I guess this thread is the official beginning of this rumor spreading to Jemsite? Ok, here it goes; *clears voice*

Peavey buying Gibson would probably mean a short-term increase in the price/value of Henry-era Gibsons and a short-term sales slump for Gibson as people adjust to new ownership and the perception that Peavey is, shall we say, a little "crass". I think it would even out because there would be a long-term increase in overall Gibson quality, crass or not, Hartley Peavey knows what he's doing. The collective hope is that Gibson would drop the gimmicks and just focus on making their time-tested guitars. No one buys a Les Paul because they want something innovative, anyway.

^^^^
All my opinion, of course.
yep i know the rumor has surfaced before. I was just wondering what people thought about it. I am thinking it would be feasible again i know it is a rumor.

Peavey's image would be hard to overcome, but i think it is an unfair image given that peavey actually makes some kick ass stuff for the price.

It is like Cadillac over Chevy or GMC . They are all the exact same thing, but people pay more for the Cadillac because of the name and value associated with the name. If peavey would re-release the same exact product with a new image/marketing and price , or even create a new brand and charge 1,000 more they get it. Because if it is expensive people think it is good, and it becomes a status symbol to own one because not everyone can afford one.

The same can be said for guitar companies and amp companies. You pay for the name more then the product.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-29-2009, 08:19 PM
 
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Re: Peavey ---- Gibson we'll see

it would be interesting. I dont care either way. while peavey may have a lot more budget friendly gear they have been around a long time and the quality and reliability of there stuff has worked for me. I wouldnt freak out about it.
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-29-2009, 10:00 PM
 
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Re: Peavey ---- Gibson we'll see

This would probably mean an overall net gain for Gibson. Quality control management gets put in charge from someone competent, and rich people that buy the guitars to hang on their walls couldn't care less for anything as long as the logo is on the headstock.
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-29-2009, 11:28 PM
 
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Re: Peavey ---- Gibson we'll see

I as well worked for a Gibson dealer, and through the grapevine learned that some of their craftsmen that had been with the company have been leaving the company starting about 10 years ago to the point that almost all (if any) of the original luthiers and craftsmen remain. I was told since about 1995-6 and especially since 2000+ Gibson's luthiery has been manned almost entirely by greenhorns and young guns with little experience with either the company or their craftsmenship other than the guitars they themselves had probably played (now thats just an assumption you may take as you will, and also came from my Gibson rep told me under the table).

Its my assumption that these fresh-from-school luthiers combined with Gibson's recent knack for trying to make products for god knows who has really lead Magic Muffin's ascertation. I don't however think that if Peavey gained control of Gibson that their QC would make the situation any better. Gibson uses ultra quality woods, finishes, lacquers and handmade everything (except that new nut system)...which pretty much equates to $$$$...if Peavey changes the formula, there will be some sort of uproar...illegal rosewood importation dispute or not.
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-30-2009, 07:35 AM
 
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Re: Peavey ---- Gibson we'll see

Rumours can be problematic - but if it is true this could be good for the simple reason that changing the business setup could improve the product issue no end.

I agree that the Peavey QC guys would not necessarily improve quality one bit actually, they would probably carry on doing the the same ol' same ol' until domesday. The new business might however spawn some new characters and idea's to tackle the problems if they exist - care to be taken here as this forum and others is a small population of opinion and the comany would have to sit down and listen to as many customers as possible to get the real picture. Only then could they tackle the real issues and sort out things such as training, material selection, designs etc etc.

Bottom line: Gibson is an awesome brand still building some of the most classic guitars around today. Won't change s**t though without the right folk deciding to do the right thing to correct the problems. Herein lies the issue, not changing jack will inevitably lead to much bigger problems and then who knows if they will survive or who'll buy em'.
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-30-2009, 11:46 AM
 
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Re: Peavey ---- Gibson we'll see

Just to dispell a myth or two here since I've been researching Les Pauls lately:

1. Non-custom shop Gibson guitars are NOT 100% hand made. They use CnC machines. They are hand-assembled, however. Don't believe me? Look it up. Tons of info on the internet about, as well as discussion at mylespaul forums from people who actually have worked for Gibson. They actually have some pretty fancy machines at Gibson.

I'm not totally sure about custom shop guitars. Maybe the historics and reissues are hand-made. Stuff like Les Paul Customs? Not so sure.

2. Gibson uses the best quality woods in Custom Shop stuff. They use excellent quality wood in they're regular line, but the highest of the highest quality isn't found on a Standard or a Traditional.
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-30-2009, 12:16 PM
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Re: Peavey ---- Gibson we'll see

Was this ever in doubt somewhere? All Gibson raw parts are CNC'd just like any other production guitar. This is not some sort of revelation.
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-30-2009, 01:02 PM
 
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Re: Peavey ---- Gibson we'll see

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Originally Posted by Ayrton View Post
Was this ever in doubt somewhere? All Gibson raw parts are CNC'd just like any other production guitar. This is not some sort of revelation.
Yes, post # 9.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonicProvocateur View Post
Gibson uses ultra quality woods, finishes, lacquers and handmade everything (except that new nut system)...which pretty much equates to $$$$...if Peavey changes the formula, there will be some sort of uproar...illegal rosewood importation dispute or not.
To you it may seem obvious as a guitar-playing, forum-goer, but I've seen this misconception elsewhere. I held this misconception myself for many years. In the back of my mind I wondered how a hand-made Les Paul with so many curved surfaces could be produced so effeciently in as many numbers as it was. Something didn't make sense and I realized what it was the day I started actually becoming interested in Gibson and started doing some research -- which was actually fairly recent -- they aren't handmade at all.

You know what the ironic part is? I really do believe that this misconception has probably sold Gibson guitars to the uninformed, HOWEVER, Henry Juszkiewicz himself is very quick to boast how efficient today's Les Paul is made using computer-controlled CnC machines.

You have guys out there who are completely in love with the idea that the variances in those old 58s, 59s, and 60s which were hand-made create some sort of magic or "mojo". You have Seymour Duncan buying the actual machine Seth Lover used to wind PAFs in all their inefficient "wound until the bobbin was full" glory -- all the while the CEO and C'o the B is spouting off how correct his new Les Pauls and humbuckers are down to the milimeter.

This is probably the greatest improvement Gibson would see under Peavey's management. Someone who, probably, really does "get it".
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-30-2009, 02:25 PM
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Re: Peavey ---- Gibson we'll see

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonicProvocateur View Post
Gibson uses ultra quality woods, finishes, lacquers and handmade everything (except that new nut system)...
I must have missed this earlier, and I don't want to be the guy that kills the dream for you, but Gibson stopped using high quality anything a long time ago.
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-30-2009, 03:14 PM
 
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Re: Peavey ---- Gibson we'll see

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I must have missed this earlier, and I don't want to be the guy that kills the dream for you, but Gibson stopped using high quality anything a long time ago.
What do you mean? Those machines that hollow out all that mahogany are pretty high quality! Then again, that mahogany isn't exactly old growth and probably has all the density of a soap spounge. You could probably do it with a screwdriver.

FWIW, there's a guy on the Les Paul forums who says he worked for Gibson and was "in the room" when they made the decision to start chambering them. He said that it had everything to do with customer demand for lighter instruments and nothing to do with having to use increasingly low quality mahogany. Maybe so, but I still wonder about the weight-relief started in the early 80s.

Take any critisism from me with a grain of salt, I'm currently shopping for a Les Paul.
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