Restoring edge - Jemsite
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-21-2010, 09:16 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Germany
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Restoring edge

Im restoring my edge trem. So i dip it on a anti rust solvent. The rust came out but its oxidizing. whats the next step and process.. Some of the paint was removed. Im betting I have to spray paint with accrylic or something but the catch, The oxidization is worse. rust will follow I believe. Thinking redipping againg to the solution then make it right this time. Oppinions are most welcomed specially experience
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-22-2010, 03:34 AM
 
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Re: Restoring edge

well ya know I have an edge that was blistered/bubbled alot. (My First Edge). I thought it was painted or powder coated so I took 2000 grit and smoothed of the blister thingy's It is actually not a pit as I found under magnafication. I got them smooth and I noticed what I thought was rust or something weird. It turns out that it has a coating of copper or brass under the color. I have been thinking and I came to the conclusion that they are electroplated not painted or powdercoated. so you have the base cast metal, a coat of something, a coat of copper or brass or copperish substance. I assume that helps the top layer adhere and it protects also. Then the top layer is put on. I have noticed many of the trems get the blisters. I am almost thinking somehow they got inpurities in their chemical solutions or somethng because I had one with perfect finish only issue was the blisters and they were created underneath finish and were working their way to the surface surface.
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-22-2010, 01:16 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Restoring edge

Gonna be hard to restore it then. I'm stuck with the first step of dipping. I need to move on and do the next step. oxidation is a pain in the ass. What if I redip it and clean the mess with water just to remove the stain. when the anti rust drys so is the dirt
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-22-2010, 02:48 PM
 
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Re: Restoring edge

I have not gotten the electroplating Theory Confirmed. I have been talking about it to the Ibanez Admins and alot of Ibanez techs and they agree but no one has said yes exactly and submitted any documentation. Though I can say it has the exact same layers etc. as all electroplated items I have. I wanted to make sure you understood that.
It also is the best most efficient way to coat all the little parts that are involved in the trems, locking nuts etc. It would be almost impossible to paint and maintain a perfect finish.
Is the item you are working on black, cosmo??? I have an Idea for you I have used pretty succesfully. It works on black on cosmo I am still perfecting blending. I keep getting told to discard blistered/ finish flawed items and replace with new. That is not a option for me at this time not until the darn powerball machine gives me the correct #'s
do you have any pics can you get any?? It would really help if I could see item and the issues you are dealing with.
Is your anti rust a acid based fluid or gel?? not sulfuric or or hydrochloric it is the one I can't recall at the moment.

I actually think the material that the base and the casted parts are made of may be a alloy of rust resistant compound. let me so a test real quick.

Last edited by spudler_t; 03-22-2010 at 02:56 PM.
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-22-2010, 03:02 PM
 
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Re: Restoring edge

I cannot believe what I just did so I could help another member but oh well its done. Ill get a pic and post it in a sec so you can see from my edge trem.
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-22-2010, 03:25 PM
 
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Re: Restoring edge




Ok see the shiny area I sanded all of the coating I put on it to make it black so you can see ( That is what I mean things I do) and if you look on the base toward the fine tuners and where the saddles sit you can see the brass/copper showing through. this area I removed all of the copper/brass stuff because the chemical I use to color it does not interact with the copper but it turns the metal black really quick and it creates a protective coating also.
Oh crap I should of taken a pic before so you could see how well the process works. I will get a pic as soon as I re blacken it again.
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-27-2010, 10:57 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Restoring edge

I understand your theory about electro plating. I think that it would be hard to restore it if it is certain. For one the polarity to use then the materials to do it with would be hard to obtain. Us I mean we tend to work with limited materials. The things that we could get from a Hardware store etc... Electro coating would be the least on our list. Moving forward after dipping the edge on Anti rust solution. Oxidization was present all over the Edge so after getting it out from the solution immediately I wash it off with water. Dried it with a piece of cloth then pull out some cotton, soaked it with oil to get rid of the corrosion.

Last edited by bebisatch; 03-27-2010 at 11:06 AM.
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-27-2010, 01:19 PM
 
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Re: Restoring edge

Im sorry I got involved with my project doing the final gloss clear top coats. I took it down to the shiny metal then I blended as good as I could with 2000 grit paper so it was a very smooth transition with the minimum amount of the copper layer showing. I then used Birchwood/Casey Super Blue Gun Blue. It creates a black oxide coating instead of the iron oxide of rust. I then did as directed and re applied washed off after 30 sec wipped with a cotton cloth to a minor buff and took 3 in 1 oil on a q-tip and covered area I was working on let sit 24 hrs then wiped of excess oil. I used a q-tip to apply also. The oil is supposed to cure the color and prevent it from corroding. It came out looking really good where you could barely even tell I had done anything to it.
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-27-2010, 02:07 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Restoring edge

Well done. I think a before and after picture is in order. Nothing could put a price on piece of mind after a successful job.
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-27-2010, 02:57 PM
 
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Re: Restoring edge

well you will have to give me a little time seeing how i removed the finish to show you teh shiny metal stuff now i will have to squeeze it in my schedule to redo the Blue again. its weird the way that stuff turns so black when put on. oh I also have it on teh spring block I could just get a pic of that it would show you what I am talking about.
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-27-2010, 05:07 PM
 
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Re: Restoring edge

TAKE IT TO A GOOD GUN SMITH .they can blackoxide it for cheap. and real black oxide that they do guns with. it is heated up to 400 degrees and makes a wonderfull gunmetal coating on it. i worked at a machine shop and did the plating there and its not expensive for them.
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-27-2010, 07:38 PM
 
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Re: Restoring edge

ya know I never thought about that.That is a good idea. I wonder if I could just toss it in my oven? DO they use a diffrent chemical?? The stuff I have is called Selenium Dioxide.
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-28-2010, 11:34 AM
 
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Re: Restoring edge

Quote:
Originally Posted by spudler_t View Post
ya know I never thought about that.That is a good idea. I wonder if I could just toss it in my oven? DO they use a diffrent chemical?? The stuff I have is called Selenium Dioxide.
You MIGHT be able to get an acceptable finish, I don't know. Chances are you would have to use a kiln.

But this is a bad idea if you want to continue using your oven to cook your food in.

Peace

Mike
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-28-2010, 12:07 PM
 
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Talking Re: Restoring edge

Boys,Boys,Boys, If you dont have access to a plating company,then just use good old gun bluing,I am sure ya will have to get down to the steel for it to rust,yes rust. When ya blue steel you are rusting it in a controlled way. You can mix several shades of blueing to achieve desired color. Not gonna gaurantee black cosmo,but you can get close. I tell ya thru my gunsmithing that there are better bluing processes than just the store baught blue. You serious about perfect results that last. You need the real kit. Salts,heat and dip tanks etc. But if ya on budget. After your thru to steel. take some fine steel wool and rub the hell outta all parts,then take some 99% pure isopropyl alchohol and clean very good all parts.Next is not mandatory but creates a stronger covering,lightly heat the parts not beyond say 175 degrees. I have rolled gun barrels accross stove burners and baked smaller parts in oven. Even a hot 90 degree sunny day would be sufficient.Always use something clean and soft to apply,on small stuff as this a Q-tip would be perfect. Have one dry one to remove any access blueing left . You really be maticulous and ya can get a even coloring. Now here is the downside to using blueing as compared to plating. Any steel that has been blued, requires keeping oiled to keep from further rusting,and it will wear off even faster than the plating upon touch. I would imagine ya could find a new trem for about the same as most places would charge to replate such small parts. Just guessing. It is just one of those things that kinda dont have a perfect solution to. I have always preferred chrome trems and hardware as they will outlast any finish ten to one,but I love gold and cosmo for their beuty, not to mention seems all the guitars I love have cosmo. The new jem 77fp will be only the third guitaR I own outta 35 guitars that has chrome trem,that is Ibanez guitars. Now if a guy had the money and wanted to redo a gold trem to have it outlast the guitar,he could have it plated with real gold,would need polished sometimes to keep luster but bygosh it would not turn on ya. Well thats just my view on the issue. Good luck and post any new ideas on how to keep these awesome trems looking and working like new. akjc1977
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-28-2010, 04:14 PM
 
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Re: Restoring edge

lol that is what I was talking about to begin with lol. Birchwood/Casey Super Blue. I did that on my edge that had issues. the problem is though you have to take it all the way down to whatever the base material they cast it is made out of. there is 2 layers before the base metal. 1 looks like copper. what I was thinking is that after blueing if I baked it it may help it set in real well so you would have less of a chance of corrosion later.
I was thinking of getting a oven for the shop I have had quite a few Items I could of really used something like thateven if I just got it to 200 and extenguished it and let the item sit in there till temp droped and the repeated process. I get yelled at enough for baking my boots while waterproofing them I would probably be smothered in my sleep if I started cooking parts. she already hates my guitar and all the parts here and there I am buying for my project guitar.

Hey thanks for the ideas I do appreciate them. I just hate the idea of having to replace a perfect trem that just has a skin condition lol (finish issue)
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