RG2027 production halted - editorial - Page 2 - Jemsite
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post #16 of 130 (permalink) Old 01-28-2001, 12:25 PM
 
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RG2027 production halted

The K7 is mahogany, which is a bit nicer than the basswood of the RG7620

(Edited by stoopid at 2:51 pm on Jan. 28, 2001)
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post #17 of 130 (permalink) Old 01-28-2001, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Quote: from stoopid on 12:25 pm on Jan. 28, 2001
The K7 is mahogany, which is a bit nicer than the basswood of the RG7620

(Edited by stoopid at 2:51 pm on Jan. 28, 2001)
I would say Mahogany is definately "different" to Basswood - but not "nicer"
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post #18 of 130 (permalink) Old 01-28-2001, 06:32 PM
 
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Jimm, you forgot a few things. You forgot the neck binding, paf7's, matching headstock and (hopefully) jem style input jack.
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post #19 of 130 (permalink) Old 01-28-2001, 10:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Quote: from Noodles on 6:32 pm on Jan. 28, 2001
Jimm, you forgot a few things. You forgot the neck binding, paf7's, matching headstock and (hopefully) jem style input jack.
If adding $2.00 worth of plastic to the neck, $5.00 worth of paint to the headstock and $10 more for the pick ups equates to adding hundreds to the retail price, we're all in the wrong line of work.

I left out the angled input jack because they have to drill a hole anyway. No retooling of the line needed to increase cost.

Though I'm all for new signature models, I think the K-7 is a slap in the face....booooo to Ibanez for insulting our collective intelligence.

Resistance is NOT futile!!!!!

J>
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post #20 of 130 (permalink) Old 01-28-2001, 11:44 PM
 
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I'm not saying it's worth the extra cost, I'm just saying you forgot a few things. You also forgot the extra labor cost that a signature model requiers and to put in the binding on the neck and the extra labor cost for the 5 peice neck. I know I'm being picky but do the samething with the uv7pbk. I do wish it had more features like complete binding but it's not my choice.
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post #21 of 130 (permalink) Old 01-29-2001, 12:15 AM
 
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Glen-

May I humbly submit that you're off the mark here. *This is not an ominous message, just an unenthusiastic free market weeding an undesirable product.

First, how often did we bellyache about the cruddy piezo wiring? *I think it was Kevan who went in depth on that. *Isn't he inventing a new switch just for Ibanez piezo's? *If so, that's not a quality guitar and not Ibanez's best foot forward; word does get around. *Had they produced a guitar critics, magazines and gear nuts raved about, we might have a different story. *That's not what happened, though. *

The 6-string lives, does it not? *That may be due to the ubiquity of six strings relative to sevens. *An opinion: what do you do with a low B and a piezo? *It's muddy through a non-acoustic amp. *Plus, Ibanez has this "rock guitar" association that probably limits any audience.

Going down Rich's "New" list, there are a few RG's and S's over $1200 list - I would consider that high-end for a non-name guitar. *Also, what about the Artstar series? *John Scofield has played one for years; it doesn't have his name on it, but they sell. *Nobody talks about them here, but they're around.

Ibanez seems to market itself somewhere between botique and production; that's where there niche is and that's where they should cater. *Retro series bombed; learn from that mistake. *Let's face it: nobody talks about Ibanez tone like they talk about Fender and Gibson. *If Ibanez wants to experiment with their lines, they'd best make sure the product is damn good, else suffer another 2027.

-Devin
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post #22 of 130 (permalink) Old 01-29-2001, 12:41 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
*This is not an ominous message, just an unenthusiastic free market weeding an undesirable product.
Come on now.

I am disappointed that inovation takes the back seat to more 'signature models'. This clearly does not bother you. On a broader scale however, I think you've confused 'good' with something that is a marketplace hit or 'consumer success'. Being a 'hit' does not mean a product is 'good'. I think we'd all agree upon that, if not there is no point discussing this further. IMHO you are way off base if you really believe the 2027 is not 'damn good' guitar, especially at it's price.

With all respect to Kev and anyone else, i feel the griping about the wiring was a totally over-exaggerated and irrelevant. For example, Dave Weiner is recording his CD with the axe and hasn't bitched/moaned about the wiring limiting his creativity or sound... glen
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post #23 of 130 (permalink) Old 01-29-2001, 12:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Quote: from Devine on 12:15 am on Jan. 29, 2001

An opinion: what do you do with a low B and a piezo? *It's muddy through a non-acoustic amp.
What do you do with a low B and a piezo? You crank out massive riffs and beautiful clean passages from the same guitar. Its about having options and range, not necessarily using them all at the same time.

I don't think the 2027 died because its a substandard product. The current market just wasn't big enough to support it. Ask around. Its seems the reviews of the 2027 from people who own it or have tried one are overwhelmingly positive. Not what I would expect from a lemon.
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post #24 of 130 (permalink) Old 01-29-2001, 09:02 AM
 
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Wait a sec..... did someone say the 2027's piezo is muddy with the low-B ?????? *You know what, its not a full acoustic, but the piezo shines brightly in my book! *Especially the low B. *I assumed it would be ****ty, but i use the Piezo alot more than i expected. *Through my rig, it is perfectly clear. *I've never heard a smoother Low B. *My old Rg7620 was muddy as ****
in the rain. *WIth this axe, every note is very clear, piezo, clean, or overdriven beyond belief. * (and i reach for a dark, deep sound) *Especially clean, i like all the highs rounded, but the bass sharp. *Think Marty Friedman Cacophony, post cacophony scenes era. *Alot of times i will warm up on my 2027 using the piezo just cause it's sooo clear all the way. *2027 is far from muddy... * I have to agree with a previous post that said the market wasn't ready for it. *Just too much for the average. *KInda the same story with B.C. Rich's USA 7s. *Those are amazing axes...but you are never gonna hear about them. *

( and for those thay care, i run through a Blue Voodoo 120 stack with an Alesis Midiverb and M-EQ, VERY VERY HOT AMP)
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post #25 of 130 (permalink) Old 01-29-2001, 10:00 AM
 
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There are clean passages on some of this stuff:

http://www.mp3.com/RyanAdam

Check out "Concrete Liner," which has an open B arpeggio across all 7 strings.

It *was recorded using the piezo on my 2027...

Like I said before, the way Ibanez chose to wire this guitar is sheer perfection... *
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post #26 of 130 (permalink) Old 01-29-2001, 10:11 AM
 
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I cant belive someone said the 2027 is a bad (not good) guitar. Sure some wanted a little different wireing, and different pickups does that make it a bad guitar? The big point is sure Kevan had some problems with the wireing set up, but wait he plays one dosnt he. Last i checked no one on this site plays a guitar that they do not like, or is a lemon. If they do then why are they playing it?
The fact is the 2027 came out in a year of confusion. A lot of people were looking down on 7's this year. Not to mention major bands talking trash about how 7 string guitars are just a fad and real men use 6'ers.(not beer)
We have all talked about how young Korn fans would not be interseted in the 2027's elegant concept.
so again this guitar was released in perhaps a bad time, but come on anyone who says its a bad guitar is fooling themself. Even if the guitar is not for them.

buzz
come on someone ripped on a 2027 you knew i would respond
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post #27 of 130 (permalink) Old 01-31-2001, 11:13 PM
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Time out.

Not only do I have to defend my "wiring setup", but I have to comment on the little brother to my CST. *I hate doing this.....

*MY* wiring situation is different from Ryan's, and different from Tagg's, and a few other folks. *Several people *have wanted to try out my wiring system, and have liked it. *It's only if you WANT to change it (and it voids your warranty). *

I came up with the design because the way Ibanez wired up the DoubleEdge trems didn't suit *MY* needs as a hack. *Ibanez did NOT do a bad job with wiring it; they just did it different than I would have...or Todd C. would have....or maybe even YOU would have. *Dave Weiner seems quite content with the custom wiring the LACS did for him. * Once again- ICE CREAM.

For those with "tonal issues" about the DoubleEdge, forget it. *The LR Baggs system is outstanding- *crisp, clear, and quiet. *Someone mentioned about the switching being "cumbersome" or something like that. *To me, it's one more knob and a teeny-tiny 3-way toggle switch (stock models have a 2-way toggle). *If that's too much "stuff" on the front of your guitar, I'm sorry- the 2027 isn't the guitar for you. *To me, it seems like the least amount of "crap" on the front of the guitar for the most features. *Check out a BMC with piezo or a Parker. *Get back to me.

I am saddened by the news of the demise of the 2027. *I feel it did fill a niche'- the ones that IM me saying, "Where can I find a CST?" or..."Sell me your CST! *Please!". *The 2027 isn't far off, and for less cash (and more available) than a CST, I'd call it a helluva deal. *The customer is right this time, but it's a shame Ibanez has to listen.

For those that think the 2027's do suck, why is Dave Weiner playing one on his new record and on tour with Vai? *Hmmm....
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post #28 of 130 (permalink) Old 02-01-2001, 12:26 AM
 
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You could cut down on the knob and switch factor by (OH NO I'M GOING TO SAY IT AGAIN) a dual pot for both volumes (mag and peizo) and a push pull on the tone for mag-peizo function. But if you think a 2027 has too many switches stay the hell away from a Jimmy Page Les Paul.

If I get a sustainer unit for mine I'll need some wacky system to keep the existing switching plus sustainer functions without adding more switches. Now that would be complicated.


Even support from korn for the 2027
I'm going to quote the ibanez catalogue paraphrasing a wee bit

Ibanez: Since your first album- korn's sound has inspired otherbands to use 7 string guitars. What are your feelings on that.

Munky:I just copied something Steve Vai did a few years before me. I just used the 7 string in a different way than he did. *There is still nothing like an Ibanez 7 string. The Ibanez 7 strings have been around since 1990 so they've really refined them. And the double edge guitars with piezo pickups are awesome. Ibanez is way beyond the other companies.


they also say it took them 5 years to create the double edge so you can expect them to use it on other guitars.
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post #29 of 130 (permalink) Old 02-01-2001, 02:04 AM
 
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Perhaps it was my circular logic, but lots of you missed my point.

Never did I use the term "bad guitar"; I wrote "crappy wiring" - that's an opinion you're welcome to refute. *My purpose here was to highlight a possibility for the 2027's failure.

What is incontrovertible is an "undesirable" guitar that did not fit into the market place. *The customer is right; Ibanez is wrong. *

Their promotion scheme, at least in the point-headstock realm, puts one strike against any high-end guitar without a swirly color scheme or a name; gadgets obviously don't make the beast. *I'd like to point out how little exposure the guitar received; like a Betamax versus VHS thing. *Nice spot at NAMM and a magazine spread.... *PS, Harmony-Central reviews don't count because there is zero discrimination.

Sure, the 2027 may play like a dream, but that's a non-issue unless buyers know. *I'd guess, Vai, Satch, Gilbert, etc. were approached with the double-edge idea and passed. *What would have happened to the Strat had Jimi decided he liked Teles; the Les Paul if Jimmy or Slash decided they preferred ES-175's (yeah, right)? *Point being, the "average Ibanez buyer" hero-worships to some degree: they want assurances that they're buying a sweet ride before dropping the bucks; no such scenario with the 2027. *

As we have seen, consumers with taste could not float it. *If the 2027 truly is great, Ibanez needed to portray it as such, to convince buyers to plop down an extra $400.

Creating damn good product doesn't stop when something falls off a conveyor belt into a box. *I do have a problem with innovation taking a back seat to signature models in certain cases. *Remember the Edge, back in the day, when it came out on the JEM and RG lines? *Revolutionary trem with a spokesman. *Now it is a significant guitar; I'd mark that introduction as a beautiful marriage between innovation and signature status. *However, had the guitar remained a small-time, "foreign car-like" guitar with limited access to parts and service, imagine how inconvenient such a product would be; allow me to entrance my freakin' nut woes. *What happens when you break the neck on a Klein? *You wait a year for a replacement. *Special case: Klein never intends to become a mass-producer, but maintains a small, devoted following by producing a phenomenal instrument, albeit at an exorbitant price, played by Bill Frisell, David Torn and other fairly famous jazzists.

Regardless of whether or not a product is good, it dies without props: burden is on the producer, not the consumer.

-Devin

(Edited by Devine at 2:07 am on Feb. 1, 2001)
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post #30 of 130 (permalink) Old 02-01-2001, 09:08 AM
 
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Pablo: If you want a Sustainer, look at the Sustainiac Stealth. They ship it standard with push-pull pots to replace your existing volume and tone pots. They're used to switch the Sustainiac on and off, and to switch between fundamental and harmonic modes.

No more mini-switches!

The only thing is if you want to fill the other half of the humbucker-sized space on your 2027X with a mini-humbucker, you're out of luck from DiMarzio. No compact 7-string humbuckers in their line. But Seymour Duncan will make a compact 7-string humbucker for you in their custom shop. Otherwise, you're pretty much limited to the Blaze 7-string single coil to fill that spot.

I don't mind the extra controls on the 2027X, but i wish Ibanez had arranged them in a more aesthetically pleasing layout. That extra pot and switch are just hanging out there in nowhere land. A concentric pot would be a good idea. My Parker's got tons of pots on it, each one with a relevant purpose, but at least they're arranged in a nice arc along the bottom edge of the body.
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