SERIOUSLY pissed off (very, very long post...) - Jemsite
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post #1 of 77 (permalink) Old 04-26-2009, 12:41 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thumbs down SERIOUSLY pissed off (very, very long post...)

ok, time to start my epicly long rant.

i have an rg2550z with an edge zero bridge. it has a problem. some of the frets (usually 1 on the B and 1 on the G string) have about 25% of the sustain of a normal fret and sometimes are just octave harmonics (eg. 15th fret B string sounds like 24th fret high E).

so i bought one of these guitars and was amazed with how good it was for a few months. then, when i was re-adjusting the intonation, i noticed a fret on the high E had the problem i described before. i kind of shrugged it off because it disappeared as i set my intonation. i also noticed occasionally the bridge would make funny noises and vibrations for no reason and would go back to normal if i fiddled with the fine tuner a bit.

so, a few weeks went on and the guitar was playing great. then all hell broke loose.

my 14th fret on the B string got this problem, like, really badly. the note basically didn't exist. and i tried to fix it, GOOD LORD i did every possible thing i could think of. basically, i knew moving the saddle back and forth (eg. setting intonation) moved the problem back and forth in accordance to the saddle. but that obviously isn't a good fix.

i tried:
fiddling with the nut
fiddling with the headstock tuners
EVERY possible neck bow adjustment you can think of
fret dress/level
pickup height
whammy bar arm holder/edge zero intonation tool fiddled with
put tape on springs
swapped saddles around
checked saddles for burrs at contact point
tested problem with every part removed possible from bridge
different string gauges

ugh, basically EVERYTHING possible. so i took it to a luthier and this guy said it was the frequency of the wood of the guitar and so i was able to get another rg2550z. by this time, i had 2 frets with the problem.

to my utter and COMPLETE dismay, the new guitar has the EXACT. SAME. PROBLEM! and to my HORROR in the SAME GODDAMN AREA! the old guitar had the problem in the 13-14th fret on the B string and on the 14th-15th fret on the G string.

i take this new guitar home, set it up and to my sheer disbelief, i get owned again. so by now, i kinda suspected it was the bridge of the guitar and had resigned myself to the fact that i just had to live with it.

a week ago, i took it, as a last resort plan, to a different tech (the guys i first went to had no idea what i was talking about and couldn't even hear the problem). this guy i went to said he thought he could fix it, and free of charge too. so i gave the guitar to him for a week and yesterday i went in and he said he had improved it drastically and he had. i was astonished.

he shimmed the neck (i'm 90% sure, i haven't taken the neck off), added a washer to the intonation adjustment tool, gave it a complete fret dress and basically a really pro set up. i took it home, and every fret was sounding at 90-100% as it should and i was amazed.

however, i restrung the damn thing just then and the problem is BACK! i'm seriously, SERIOUSLY annoyed.

now, to the serious issues...i hope you've read this far...

i'm about 95% sure the problem has something to do with the bridge. my main reasoning is that; A) EVERY single thing you can imagine has been tested/adjusted except the whole bridge B) the bridge vibrates and resonates in a strange jarring way when you play the affected frets and ONLY the affected frets.

so what i was thinking is, i buy an edge pro and retrofit it onto this guitar. i've done some basic measurements and the only problem at this stage is (i think...) finding a way to screw the edge pro spring claw screws in. i did some measurements on an original edge equipped RG and found that, because of the spring tension adjustment knob on the EZ system, i need about 8mm or so extra wood to screw the spring claw for an EP in.

i know this is possible thanks to none other than mr. herman li. check out this vid and pause it around 2:27:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ydJ8...eature=related

you can clearly see how a block of wood has been fitted in where the adjustment knob was and the EP claw now fits in there. you can also see the EP has miles of extra room in the route at the top of the guitar. also, i don't think you'd need a string retainer as the EZ top lok feature would still apply to the guitar. so, if you can figure out how to properly put an EP spring claw in there, it should just be a direct drop in.

but what worries and frustrates me the most is that there are probably thousands of EZ equipped guitars with this problem. i have played 4 (yes, FOUR) rg2550z guitars with this exact same problem and i don't see what is stopping all the other EZ RG's out there suffering from the same problem. i wonder if ibanez will realise this problem and smooth out the tolerances or something with future EZ's? i PM'ed an ibanez rep on the ibanez forum and he was helpful until i described my problem to him. i haven't received a response for over 5 months.

so, what do you think of all that? am i mad? it's such a shame because i love the edge zero to death! i love the stability of it.
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post #2 of 77 (permalink) Old 04-26-2009, 12:59 PM
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Re: SERIOUSLY pissed off (very, very long post...)

Every guitar is going to have dull spots from frequency cancelling. You're not going to fix them, they're inherent to the guitar. Go pick up anything Edge Pro and you'll find dull spots. I remember the puzzle tops had 1.5 second sustain on B 17 [IIRC] and another fret, long forgotten.
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post #3 of 77 (permalink) Old 04-26-2009, 12:59 PM
 
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Re: SERIOUSLY pissed off (very, very long post...)

Am I just being stupid or does the lack of sustain and octave problem not just mean that the string is fretting out on the next fret up (i.e. 15th fret in this instance)? You don't mention what height your action is set at...The 15th fret could have a high spot in one area, or the 14th may have a low spot (despite the fact that two guitars have had the same problem and have had a fret dress).

Another thing to consider is that the radius of the bridge does not match the neck radius, my RG has completely worn down frets towards the middle but not worn at all on the two outside strings due to the radius mismatch. If this happens on one string and only one fret then I don't think the bridge would be the problem.
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post #4 of 77 (permalink) Old 04-26-2009, 01:06 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: SERIOUSLY pissed off (very, very long post...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
Every guitar is going to have dull spots from frequency cancelling. You're not going to fix them, they're inherent to the guitar. Go pick up anything Edge Pro and you'll find dull spots. I remember the puzzle tops had 1.5 second sustain on B 17 [IIRC] and another fret, long forgotten.
i've never played another guitar with this type of problem. and how come all 4 rg2550z's i've played have this problem? what is different from them that is different from an rg1550 (EP equipped)? i'm very skeptical that it's "just the wood" in the guitar.

i forgot to mention i've had the action set from unplayable (1cm or something and down to strings just about touching the frets) and it doesn't affect it. apart from a full fret dress i've tried sanding down the frets slightly with 0000 steel wool.
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post #5 of 77 (permalink) Old 04-26-2009, 01:11 PM
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Re: SERIOUSLY pissed off (very, very long post...)

You have, you just never bothered to find the dull spots, or they're in places you don't play.

Go pick up a 1550 and prove it to yourself.
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post #6 of 77 (permalink) Old 04-26-2009, 01:13 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: SERIOUSLY pissed off (very, very long post...)

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Originally Posted by Rich View Post
You have, you just never bothered to find the dull spots, or they're in places you don't play.

Go pick up a 1550 and prove it to yourself.
look, i don't want this turn into a flame war and i don't want any anger or anything here, but can you tell me why 4 guitars had the same problem in the same area?
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post #7 of 77 (permalink) Old 04-26-2009, 01:18 PM
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Re: SERIOUSLY pissed off (very, very long post...)

There's no intention of any flame. I did tell you, they're inherent to the guitar. Picking up 4 of them that are the same should be all the proof you need.
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post #8 of 77 (permalink) Old 04-26-2009, 01:21 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: SERIOUSLY pissed off (very, very long post...)

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There's no intention of any flame. I did tell you, they're inherent to the guitar. Picking up 4 of them that are the same should be all the proof you need.
yes, but any idea of WHY it's inherent to this specific guitar?
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post #9 of 77 (permalink) Old 04-26-2009, 01:23 PM
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Re: SERIOUSLY pissed off (very, very long post...)

Pick up any of them and you'll find a dull spot somewhere very close to it. See above puzzle top example.
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post #10 of 77 (permalink) Old 04-26-2009, 01:30 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: SERIOUSLY pissed off (very, very long post...)

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Originally Posted by Rich View Post
Pick up any of them and you'll find a dull spot somewhere very close to it. See above puzzle top example.
i'm missing something here. from what i can see, an edge pro equipped 1550 and an edge zero equipped rg2550z are EXACTLY the same in spec; same materials and measurements and stuff.

so, assuming everything else i've tried hasn't solved the problem and assuming the EZ bridge is causing this problem aaaand assuming there haven't been people complaining about this same problem in 1550 guitars AAAAAAAAAAND given that the problem is in almost the exact same area on the 2550z's...well, that's my reasoning as to why the bridge is the culprit.

you know what, it's 3:39AM here and i'm getting jumbled up a lot whatever. that's just my reasoning.
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post #11 of 77 (permalink) Old 04-26-2009, 01:35 PM
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Re: SERIOUSLY pissed off (very, very long post...)

How many other than you are complaining about the B 14 on a 2550?
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post #12 of 77 (permalink) Old 04-26-2009, 01:37 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: SERIOUSLY pissed off (very, very long post...)

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How many other than you are complaining about the B 14 on a 2550?
exactly, no-one. but i don't get it. i'll be shredding around the fretboard, run into one of the 2 frets and stop and look down at the guitar and start playing again. or i'll bend up to it, and realise the note has already cut out just as i've hit it and all you can hear is the sound of the string hitting the other strings.

i don't know, whatever, it pisses the living hell out of me.
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post #13 of 77 (permalink) Old 04-26-2009, 02:42 PM
 
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Re: SERIOUSLY pissed off (very, very long post...)

Damn! That's bad, I'm kinda glad now, as I have the older RG2550 model, with the lo-pro edge...
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post #14 of 77 (permalink) Old 04-26-2009, 02:45 PM
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Re: SERIOUSLY pissed off (very, very long post...)

You have an Edge Pro, and you have dull spots too, if you care to search for them.
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post #15 of 77 (permalink) Old 04-26-2009, 02:51 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: SERIOUSLY pissed off (very, very long post...)

rich, sorry if i sound a bit persistent or annoying here (i'm really not trying to be) but you haven't really answered my questions in posts 12 and 10. thanks.
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