Some old bottom mount nuts have neck cracks and others don't? - Jemsite
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-22-2011, 03:26 PM Thread Starter
 
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Some old bottom mount nuts have neck cracks and others don't?

Why do you think on older RG's with the bottom mount nut, there are cracks at the holes?

There is more going on that simply a "the neck is weaker because it is one piece" or "the neck is weaker because it is so thin or because of the holes".

I 've often wondered if it comes from those who have removed the nut and replaced it but over tightened it and over time it caused the cracks. Or maybe it's just from heavy whammy use. Or maybe a combination of the two. Could it be the wood was slightly to thick and so it was pinched between the screws and the nut piece causing the crack over time.

Am I the only one who wonders about these things? Anyone have any thoughts?
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-22-2011, 03:32 PM
 
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Re: Some old bottom mount nuts have neck cracks and others don't?

Over tightening.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-22-2011, 04:55 PM
 
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Re: Some old bottom mount nuts have neck cracks and others don't?

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Originally Posted by musikron View Post
Over tightening.
problem solved.......this is the ONLY reason for nut screw cracks. People often assume that the screw needs to be "locked down" but it doesn't. finger tight plus an eighth to a third turn is always enough to secure the nut.
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-22-2011, 05:07 PM
 
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Re: Some old bottom mount nuts have neck cracks and others don't?

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Originally Posted by RGTFanatic View Post
problem solved.......this is the ONLY reason for nut screw cracks. People often assume that the screw needs to be "locked down" but it doesn't. finger tight plus an eighth to a third turn is always enough to secure the nut.
Yep, and recheck it every string change, and you should never have a problem.
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-22-2011, 08:33 PM
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Re: Some old bottom mount nuts have neck cracks and others don't?

The nut needs to be as tight as it needs to be to keep it from walking with trem use. If it moves so does your tuning, wildly, or just a little. UV's with 10's can be a particular pain with the slick chrome nut that doesn't want to stay put, but it's in a beefy chunk of wood, a cracked UV neck is almost unheard of. The thinner the wood, the more susceptible it is.

Wood shrinks, and continues to. Wood shrinks and all metal to wood contact loosens and needs to be maintained.

Wood also swells with atmospheric conditions. If you have a nut tight and it goes into a very humid hot day, it swells and the nut gets a lot tighter and can crack the wood where the nut wasn't too tight, when it was tightened.

Shock, case falls over, is dropped, etc. Wood with the nut tight doesn't want to be shocked.
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-22-2011, 11:44 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Some old bottom mount nuts have neck cracks and others don't?

I've never taken the nut off my guitar nor adjusted the screws for that matter. 20 years old and it's never been a problem. I figure leave well enough alone.
Are there two posts that come thru the neck and the screws thread into the metal posts? I've always assumed that was how it was made and I assume the posts fit tightly into the holes in the wood?
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-23-2011, 12:00 AM
 
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Re: Some old bottom mount nuts have neck cracks and others don't?

No posts, the bolts thread into the bottom of the nut.

Rich does have a point about humidity, but I don't think that causes it, otherwise you would have more cracked headstocks at the tuners as they are installed in a very similar manner.

Having them too tight could however increase the chance of a crack developing during a sudden blow to the headstock, but again, if they weren't too tight to begin with...
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-23-2011, 12:47 AM
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Re: Some old bottom mount nuts have neck cracks and others don't?

I have seen some wild fluctuations with big swings in atmosphere. Most of them from freezing [shrinkage], which is deadly to any Ibanez with a purfled top [repeat, do not ship your JEM10's in the middle of winter except overnight!]. But wood will swell just as much as it shrinks and I absolutely believe it's enough to overtighten a nut more than wasn't to begin with. Not that it needed to be that tight to begin with. As long as it's not walking it's tight enough.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-23-2011, 02:10 AM
 
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Re: Some old bottom mount nuts have neck cracks and others don't?

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Originally Posted by Rich View Post
............. As long as it's not walking it's tight enough.
Perfectly said!!
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-23-2011, 09:15 AM
 
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Re: Some old bottom mount nuts have neck cracks and others don't?

I tighten these by using the long part of the allen wrench going into the bolt and then pinching the short part between my thumb and index finger. It's basically impossible to really crank it down that way. The nut always stays in place for me and I've never cracked a neck.
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-23-2011, 10:15 AM
 
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Re: Some old bottom mount nuts have neck cracks and others don't?

We get pretty bad swings in humidity here between winter and summer. I usually find myself doing much maintenance and tweaking in September and May.
That said many parts on a guitar can be overtorqued. Maple is better than basswood but overtightening those nuts is bad news.
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-23-2011, 01:50 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Some old bottom mount nuts have neck cracks and others don't?

I'm suprised the bolts just thread into the bottom of the nut. I would think if they drilled the holes thru the neck the same size as a metal collar that was made onto the nut and the bolts threaded into that it would be alot better product. That way the nut would be held by the entire depth of the hole and not friction between the nut on one side and the bolt on the other. Of course I guess if the wood swells from humidity with a metal collar in it there would be no room for expansion. Of course with a top mount nut there is no room for expansion around the screws in the wood either.
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