Sounds like JP and EB/MM know their guitar ain't worth the $ - Jemsite
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post #1 of 45 (permalink) Old 02-08-2001, 12:27 PM Thread Starter
 
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Sounds like JP and EB/MM know their guitar ain't worth the $

According to Harmony Central, John Petrucci & EB/MM realized one of their biggest mistakes and are addressing the unbelievable rip-off that is the EB/MM JPM. *In order to quash the anguished cries of people who have to work for their money, EB/MM has reduced the cost for one of these pieces of lumber, in exchange for removing all signs that it is a JPM. *This includes the removal of the JP inlay *What a load. *So I can either pay 1 grand too much for a signature guitar, or 1 grand too much for a stock model? *LMAO

here's yer link
http://www.harmony-central.com/Newp/...s-Revised.html

edited link to click-thru



(Edited by jemsite at 2:39 pm on Feb. 8, 2001)
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post #2 of 45 (permalink) Old 02-08-2001, 01:19 PM
 
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Sounds like JP and EB/MM know their guitar ain't worth the $

I don't know about that. *Let's look at another guitar line that we all like, the Ibanez JEM. *Over the course of Jemdom, players have been able to get Jem's with plain dot inlay, their color choice, their fretboard choice (maple, ebony, rosewood), their choice of inlay, their choice of graphics, etc... *To make matters even worse, Ibanez made the 555 which isn't even representative of what the artist would use thanks to the TRS trem.

The new $1705 JPM w/o inlays is very representative of what JP would use. *In fact, if you got that guitar in the purple color with the piezo option then you would have a copy of the prototype he used on the Met 2K tour. *IMHO removing the inlays doesn't take away the JPM-ness of it, although that's not something I would do personally. *I think we should commend EBMM for making a lower cost guitar while not cheapening the experience by making it unrepresentative of something JP would play.

Either that or I could be a brainwashed fanboy...
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post #3 of 45 (permalink) Old 02-08-2001, 01:55 PM
 
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Sounds like JP and EB/MM know their guitar ain't worth the $

Hmm. I started writing this and it has turned into a fairly long analysis...

I'm just making assumptions here, but it looks to me like some of the decisions about the EB/MM Petrucci model may have been made due to less-than-anticipated demand. What was going to be a full production model now looks like it will be a build-to-order model. Without heavy demand for the guitar, there's no point in ramping up huge production volumes. It looks like they may have shot themselves in the foot on this one by initially pricing it way too high for what looks like a Silhouette model without a pickguard. I would imagine the high price killed interest for a lot of people right from the start.

The "build to order" idea for the new Petrucci model is a good one, but it has its drawbacks as well. You can decide just how much "JP" you want in it... make it exactly the model he plays or make it more of your own guitar by picking your own colours, etc. However, it basically means the guitar won't be built until an order is received. How many stores will stock one for people to try? This could negatively affect sales, which in turn will drive up the price.

I think the reality is that Petrucci's fans are a very small market. (Before coming to Jemsite, i hadn't ever heard of Petrucci or Dream Theater, other than their mentions in Ibanez and Yamaha catalogs.) Many, many people will look at a Petrucci signature model and say, "John who?"

The other reality is that many people just don't want a signature models of today's flavour-of-the-month rock guitarist. I think they could have built a good production model with the new bridge and forearm scoop, and kept the price around $1000 or so... but then it'd be pretty much a double-cutaway Axis Sport with a few minor points of difference.

So many companies just don't seem to understand how to market a great signature model that appeals to a broad range of guitarists. JEMs and Universes have been reasonably successful at appealing to a moderately broad audience because of their feel, sound and versatility. But they still have pointy headstocks and body horns, which turns a lot of people off... even the more subdued VWH is still a bit gaudy and extroverted in its personality, which limits its appeal. They're also limited by Vai's input on colours and finishes, which currently limits your choices to black and white.

Ernie Ball/Music Man kinda know what they're doing, but kinda not. The EB EVH models didn't really take off in the market until Edward had gone to Peavey and the model was re-christened the Axis. Bringing out the Axis Sport and Super Sport were also keys to this strategy being successful... the more modest models were just as good, but not quite as flashy. Similarly, Peavey Wolfgangs have been very successful because they're more neutral in their style and can appeal to a broader range of players without them feeling like they're playing "that Eddie Van Halen guitar."

Both the Axis and Wolfgang are very versatile and great-feeling guitars that give the player a lot of finish options in a production model, and they've been very well received by the market. EB and Peavey also show sensitivity to different market segments by offering them in different levels, ranging from full-blown AAA maple-top versions (with carved tops on the Wolfgang) or a solid basswood model for those who want something a bit more modest, without compromising quality. They're lower-cost models without being "cheap" models like the JEM 555 and JS-100. They've also marketed them with only a loose association with EVH, allowing the merits of the instrument itself, rather than its endorsee, to sell more guitars.

I don't know what the magic recipe is for a signature guitar to be a success... i think part of the equation falls on how established the artist is. George Benson, Pat Metheny, Allan Holdsworth and Edward Van Halen have all been around for 20 years or more, and have established themselves as having staying power. If people are going to spend big cash on a signature model guitar, they probably want to be pretty sure that it's going to stand the test of time, in terms of tone and aesthetics. Don't see too many people playing those neon-colored JEMs in public these days, do you?
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post #4 of 45 (permalink) Old 02-08-2001, 02:26 PM
 
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Sounds like JP and EB/MM know their guitar ain't worth the $

Even with the new price vamping, it still seems to be in the high priced range for a guitar compared to Petruccis' other peers custom models. *The JPMs were like 1300 new, Jems are in that ballpark, and UVs just a little higher. *The EVH is less, the Steve Morse is less. *im sure there are other signiture models that are less as well. *Maybe I've got some of my numbers wrong and Im just not seeing things straight. *I dunno.
For a 6 string with a piezo, I'll just go with the RG2020 (ahem, from Rich) for half the price of the 6 string EBMM JP with the piezo.
Still no word on the neck profile of the EB/JP model correct? *
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post #5 of 45 (permalink) Old 02-08-2001, 03:26 PM
 
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Sounds like JP and EB/MM know their guitar ain't worth the $

Well you know I have to respond to this one, don't ya?

I have no idea whether the guitar will be a hit or not. *I won't defend EB's pricing updating either. But I own 3 JPMS and I don't exactly remember them being cheap. *The list price on them was at least $1599, maybe $1699 and of course the 90th was $2499 (Rich correct me if I'm wrong ). *The list on the new EB JPM is $1705 - so $6 difference? *I don't see that as expensive by time your local dealer gives you whatever discount you can haggle.

I don't see how this guitar can be called an unbelieveable ripoff until you've played one and determined it for yourself. *I've played all of the EB NAMM ones, and JP's actual one. *His is no different that what you can buy from EB which I think is cool if you want it. *I love my Ibanez guitars (JPMs included), but I am going to get an EB model because I like the pickups, knob placement and the neck is phenomenal. *If I want to pay MORE than what the Ibanez JPMs were, I have the option of getting a Piezo installed, different inlays, custom paint etc. *As Yngwie would say, "more is more".

Please don't flame me as a sellout , because I was drooling over the J-customs at NAMM. *Ibanez will still get my $$$ here and there.

Paul
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post #6 of 45 (permalink) Old 02-08-2001, 03:48 PM
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Sounds like JP and EB/MM know their guitar ain't worth the $

Good commentary here. I'll verify this as time permits, but i have these prices. It shows the marketplace reality ... JPMs price were lowered by Ibanez to help sales. I'm sure sales were low and less than stellar.

JPM100P1 - $????.?? (1995)
JPM100P2 - $1799.99 (1996)
JPM100P3 - $1799.99 (1997)
JPM100P4 - $1499.99 (1998-1999)
JPM90HAM - $2999.99 (199 $500 less than JEM90

Personally, I believe EB has mispriced and misread the JPM marketplace. They were SMART to lower prices, and allow a lower entry price to this guitar. I think a $2200 list price "petrucci guitar" would fail miserably given it's feature set and comparative guitars. Be thankful that now fans can buy one and not dip further into the bank account... glen

edited typos

(Edited by jemsite at 2:51 pm on Feb. 8, 2001)
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post #7 of 45 (permalink) Old 02-08-2001, 04:02 PM
 
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Sounds like JP and EB/MM know their guitar ain't worth the $

I thought it was up to the EB/MM endorsee to "shoot the foot". *Hey...just goin' on track record here. *cough*EVH*cough*

If it makes you guys (or JP) feel any better:
At a gig on Sunday night, I took the RG-ART. *
One of the guys said, "That's a nice JPM!".
I almost died.
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post #8 of 45 (permalink) Old 02-08-2001, 04:24 PM
 
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Sounds like JP and EB/MM know their guitar ain't worth the $

HAHAHAHA... *That must have been harsh!

The pricing on the current JPMs is a bit curious. *It seems that (at least initially) EB was marketing them towards the fanboys who would fork out the money regardless of price (count me in this group). *

I agree with a lot of the points above, especially that the axe has a limited feature set. *I have to admit, it definately is limited compared to a JEM just in terms of the pickups alone. *The JPMs are definately guitars that are made to make specific tones and for those of us who like them they are incredibly good at it. *I guess I am so happy with mine because I can go straight into my amp set on Recto and it sounds pretty darn close to JP's sound. *But I do agree that for $1705 the 7DBK (is it $1699 list?) is probably a more versatile guitar, especially now that the JPM doesn't have a locking trem.

I also agree that JP is only known by a small number of people compared to Vai or Satriani, even Morse due to his exposure from Kansas and Deep Purple so trying to sell his model based only on his name (to the general guitar buying public) is probably an uphill battle.
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post #9 of 45 (permalink) Old 02-08-2001, 04:31 PM
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Sounds like JP and EB/MM know their guitar ain't worth the $

John Who ?!?!!?

I think Darren is right I'm afraid - However I do think the fact that it comes in a whole host of colours is a great idea :biggrin:
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post #10 of 45 (permalink) Old 02-08-2001, 04:34 PM
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Sounds like JP and EB/MM know their guitar ain't worth the $

in fact I'll use this opportunity to mentions the COLOURS again :biggrin:

(Edited by jono at 1:35 pm on Feb. 8, 2001)
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post #11 of 45 (permalink) Old 02-08-2001, 05:50 PM Thread Starter
 
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Sounds like JP and EB/MM know their guitar ain't worth the $

If the pricing on JEM's is a little high, then the EB/MM JPM is just ridiculous. *I don't know about you guys, but when I compare a new JPM to a JEM7VWH, the EB/MM looks like a Squire Duosonic. *That's just way too much money for a modded Sillouhette. *And the neato optional paint job is not an excuse because it is just that, optional. *IMHO, it is also not worth another $400 either. *You can put flames on a Buick, but it won't make it a Corvette. *It's still an EB/MM Sillouhette. *I for one am completely underwhelmed.
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post #12 of 45 (permalink) Old 02-08-2001, 06:40 PM
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Sounds like JP and EB/MM know their guitar ain't worth the $

Couple correction Glen, although I'm really lacking in the later year price lists

97' P3 - $1599 (August 1 price list)
98' JPM 90th - $2500

The JEm90 was $3000
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post #13 of 45 (permalink) Old 02-08-2001, 07:27 PM
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Sounds like JP and EB/MM know their guitar ain't worth the $

Quote:
Quote: from Rich on 5:40 pm on Feb. 8, 2001
Couple correction Glen, although I'm really lacking in the later year price lists
97' P3 - $1599 (August 1 price list)
98' JPM 90th - $2500
The JEm90 was $3000
Maybe price changed mid-stream '97? Either way, Ibanez has always has, and will always continue to use the x9.95 designations. It is a standard marketing practice, for example, as $199 seems more pallatable than $200. In fact, i recommend it for your website too
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post #14 of 45 (permalink) Old 02-08-2001, 08:02 PM
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Sounds like JP and EB/MM know their guitar ain't worth the $

I think it's mathemathic that 99 equals not 100

(Edited by jemsite at 7:15 pm on Feb. 8, 2001)
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post #15 of 45 (permalink) Old 02-08-2001, 08:33 PM
 
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Sounds like JP and EB/MM know their guitar ain't worth the $

Jem7vwh, I guess I am completely missing your point. *Seriously, can you tell me what is different parts-wise between your guitar and the new EB JPM other than the ebony fretboard and Lo-pro? *Aren't they both basswood, maple necks and nice Dimarzios? *I understand the high-end RGs are nice, I have em and love em. *So I just don't see how a guitar made up mostly of the same quality parts is a "buick" .

By the way, the new trem on the guitar is just that, completely new and routed out. *It's not a trem that's been used before on EB's. *And the sig paint is bloody expensive because it costs companies upwards of $330 a pint wholesale. *So if Ibanez used the same paint, that cost would easily be passed on to consumers.

I am not trying to convince you to buy one of them, obviously. *Just involved in this discussion because I played them and was pleasantly surprised. *I had no plans whatsoever to buy one until I sat down with one and changed my mind. *As a matter of fact, I was totally set on getting a Parker Classic, but this axe played so nicely and sounded so good I have totally abandoned that pursuit. *I totally respect your opinion of your axes. *I know, I have defended Ibanez left and right for years.
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