Is there a difference in sound/feel/etc. between the different wood types? - Page 4 - Jemsite
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post #46 of 137 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 08:01 PM
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Re: Is there a difference in sound/feel/etc. between the different wood types?

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulramon1992 View Post
You don't need to be a jerk about it.
Jerk?
Ok I was talking to you, if talking is being a jerk, I was a jerk so sorry.
So you're right.......tone comes from fingers.
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post #47 of 137 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 08:15 PM
 
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Re: Is there a difference in sound/feel/etc. between the different wood types?

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Originally Posted by 6fingers View Post
So you're right.......tone comes from fingers.
QFT.

This is starting to sound like the "does the female orgasm exist?" discussion. Those who had never been witness to one said it was a myth. Those who knew better, the less concrete caged minds, were able to open their minds and acknowledge the existance of something that is hard to explain (for a rocker) but very easy to notice.
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post #48 of 137 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 08:46 PM
 
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Re: Is there a difference in sound/feel/etc. between the different wood types?

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Originally Posted by The Euphor View Post
QFT.

This is starting to sound like the "does the female orgasm exist?" discussion. Those who had never been witness to one said it was a myth. Those who knew better, the less concrete caged minds, were able to open their minds and acknowledge the existance of something that is hard to explain (for a rocker) but very easy to notice.
6fingers does seem very closed minded about things that can seem a bit ethereal.

He also strikes me as an "I'm right, you're wrong... end of discussion" kind of guy.

I'd hate to argue politics with him, as I'm sure even with 100% verification of something, you'd still be wrong, according to him.

I do have to give him respect for at least trying to explain his point of view, and using his same argument... it's in the gear... the player IS part of the gear. Your body, fingers, everything changes the way the guitar and strings resonate, you just have to accept that you're also part of the mechanical properties that go into your over-all tone.

But he'll never accept this either since he doesn't even believe that the wood has anything to do with it. (I KNOW he said he knows the wood makes it sound different and that you just can't tell, but that's just as good as saying it doesn't make a difference.)
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post #49 of 137 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 08:59 PM
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Re: Is there a difference in sound/feel/etc. between the different wood types?

Don't judge to not be judged too.
It's impossible to know 100% a person who lives with us, think about a stranger in a guitar forum.
You're completely wrong about me, I'm the opposite of what you think.
You're judging my character only based on some of my replies here, remember texts don't show faces, emotions and sometimes when you think I was being serious, maybe I was joking, who knows.
I don't judge you, I don't know you.
But thanks for wasting your time thinking about me, I suggest you to practice and post some cool songs instead of thinking about me
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post #50 of 137 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 09:24 PM
 
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Re: Is there a difference in sound/feel/etc. between the different wood types?

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Originally Posted by MicJustMic View Post
6fingers does seem very closed minded about things that can seem a bit ethereal.

He also strikes me as an "I'm right, you're wrong... end of discussion" kind of guy.

I'd hate to argue politics with him, as I'm sure even with 100% verification of something, you'd still be wrong, according to him.
+1

5characters....
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post #51 of 137 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 09:25 PM
 
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Re: Is there a difference in sound/feel/etc. between the different wood types?

I said you 'strike me', meaning, 'you appear to be', not that you 'absolutely are'...

However, you are right, I'm basing this assumption on very limited information, however, if you look at your own posts, you can see how one could come to this assumption.

You are completely unbending, to the point you refuse to even concede to the notion that some of us can tell the difference, if not precisely but in some abstract way, based on the stated fact that you yourself, can't hear what we 'claim' to hear.

And as far as the 'joking' you may have been doing. There ARE ways to show in print that you are joking. So if you were joking with any of your points, you're correct, I had/have no way of knowing and will, naturally, assume you're serious.

If I'm wrong, I apologize.

Just as an example... I'm going to take all of my guitars, throw them out the window, spray lighter fluid on them and have a nice bonfire that's worth several thousand dollars... I'm in the mood for roasted marshmallows and don't have any good wood.
YEAH, RIGHT! That'll happen...

Easy to tell I'm kidding there.
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post #52 of 137 (permalink) Old 03-19-2012, 12:18 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Is there a difference in sound/feel/etc. between the different wood types?

I read another long discussion on "does tone come from the fingers" and I wanted to join in but I didn't.

Question for those of you who say tone comes from the fingers:

Does this also apply to keyboards? For example, my mother is a classically trained organist. She is very good. If she plays a C chord on the organ and then I go play the same chord, will it sound different because I have no organ training? Is her tone coming from her fingers or from the speakers in the organ?

What about piano? My parents have a baby grand piano and when my mom plays it it sounds pretty good. When I play it has the same tone, except the difference is I don't know how to play the piano so it's just random notes and super basic stuff.

The tone sounds the same to me, though.

So is the guitar tone "coming from the fingers" due to the left or right hand?

If Steve Vai fingers a note and a noob plucks the string, will it have a different tone? What if a noob fingers the note and Steve Vai plucks the string, will it sound different?

I think with guitar, aside from things like picking too hard or too softly (which can affect the sound), tone comes from the equipment.

The only way the argument here makes sense is if everyone is using a different definition of "tone."

I think "tone" means the auditory qualities of the sound; its EQ spectrum, any added effects, etc.

Things like "playing with feeling" or whatever, that isn't tone. That's technique/skill/whatever you want to call it.

If Steve Vai plays an open E string and then hands me the guitar and I play the same open E string, it's going to have exactly the same tone.
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post #53 of 137 (permalink) Old 03-19-2012, 12:35 AM
 
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Re: Is there a difference in sound/feel/etc. between the different wood types?

OMG the tone argument again...

I'm 50-50 on this.
my picking attack, cause somewhat call light buzz.
that buzz goes to the pickups and woods and amp, and there you go.. my tone.
if the guitar is bright sounding with bright pickups, the buzz is very clear.
if the guitar is darker sounding with dark pickups, the buzz is slightly hidden.

so... yes my fingers give me a characteristic of my tone, and the equipment just give it worse or better tone.
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post #54 of 137 (permalink) Old 03-19-2012, 12:40 AM
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Re: Is there a difference in sound/feel/etc. between the different wood types?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ironfistx View Post
I read another long discussion on "does tone come from the fingers" and I wanted to join in but I didn't.

Question for those of you who say tone comes from the fingers:

Does this also apply to keyboards? For example, my mother is a classically trained organist. She is very good. If she plays a C chord on the organ and then I go play the same chord, will it sound different because I have no organ training? Is her tone coming from her fingers or from the speakers in the organ?

What about piano? My parents have a baby grand piano and when my mom plays it it sounds pretty good. When I play it has the same tone, except the difference is I don't know how to play the piano so it's just random notes and super basic stuff.

The tone sounds the same to me, though.

So is the guitar tone "coming from the fingers" due to the left or right hand?

If Steve Vai fingers a note and a noob plucks the string, will it have a different tone? What if a noob fingers the note and Steve Vai plucks the string, will it sound different?

I think with guitar, aside from things like picking too hard or too softly (which can affect the sound), tone comes from the equipment.

The only way the argument here makes sense is if everyone is using a different definition of "tone."

I think "tone" means the auditory qualities of the sound; its EQ spectrum, any added effects, etc.

Things like "playing with feeling" or whatever, that isn't tone. That's technique/skill/whatever you want to call it.

If Steve Vai plays an open E string and then hands me the guitar and I play the same open E string, it's going to have exactly the same tone.
Perfect.
I'm 100% with you.
That's what I was saying but with a foreigner english.
Seems like only other musicians like keyboard players and even drummers understand this but the majority of guitarists are stuck to myths and some bs their idols tell because they receive money to tell them.BTW so drummers don't have a tone cause they don't play with their fingers?
Some players who don't have hands play with their feet so their tones are in their toes?
Violin players have no tone?
Everybody who plays a keyboard have no tone or their keyboards can feel who is playing by the touch of their fingers and create a personal tone?
Hey everytime PG played with that makita thing he had no tone or he had a makita tone?

Last edited by 6fingers; 03-19-2012 at 01:06 AM.
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post #55 of 137 (permalink) Old 03-19-2012, 01:02 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Is there a difference in sound/feel/etc. between the different wood types?

The only way fingers can affect tone is if:

1) you pick too hard (buzz) or too light and the sound doesn't transmit

2) your finger is actually ON the fret and the string buzzes

3) your finger slips out of place or is somehow otherwise in the wrong place and makes a weird noise

(All 3 of these are examples of bad technique, btw)

Other than that? No. If Steve Vai plays a note on the 5th fret and then I play a note on the 5th fret on the same guitar going into the same amp, the tone of the note will be the same.

If Steve Vai hits a note on my mother's piano and then my mom goes and hits the same note, the tone is going to be the same.

If Steve Vai plays a song on my mother's piano, it will sound like Steve Vai's style. If my mom plays a song it will sound like my mom's style, but they both have the same tone.

If I go play Steve Vai's guitar going through his amps, I will have the same tone as him, but not the same style, technique, or feeling.
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post #56 of 137 (permalink) Old 03-19-2012, 01:03 AM
 
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Re: Is there a difference in sound/feel/etc. between the different wood types?

I play a right handed guitar..left handed without restringing....... so all your theories are moot.

But I can still hear and feel acoustical/electrical differences between wood types.
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post #57 of 137 (permalink) Old 03-19-2012, 01:12 AM
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Re: Is there a difference in sound/feel/etc. between the different wood types?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ironfistx View Post
Other than that? No. If Steve Vai plays a note on the 5th fret and then I play a note on the 5th fret on the same guitar going into the same amp, the tone of the note will be the same.

If Steve Vai hits a note on my mother's piano and then my mom goes and hits the same note, the tone is going to be the same.

If Steve Vai plays a song on my mother's piano, it will sound like Steve Vai's style. If my mom plays a song it will sound like my mom's style, but they both have the same tone.

If I go play Steve Vai's guitar going through his amps, I will have the same tone as him, but not the same style, technique, or feeling.
Deja vu?
I said that too, maybe we have a connection, a tone connection for sure.
Maybe Chicago's water is better
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post #58 of 137 (permalink) Old 03-19-2012, 01:40 AM
 
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Re: Is there a difference in sound/feel/etc. between the different wood types?

Ask a violinist if his fingers have anything to do with his tone, or a cellist, or any instrument where your fingers (even wind instruments, where you're using your lips) come in direct contact with the sound producing part(s) of the instrument in such an intimate way and I'd bet many of them will tell you that, yes, it does effect your tone.

Your body is in contact with the resonant parts of the instrument, therefor: unless your guitar is diamond hard, you do have an effect on the over all sound... even if it's very small and (I'll concede this) through heavy effects and/or distortion, it's almost indistinguishable. Plus: the way you pick, the pressure you put on the fretted string, how large your hands are (this changes the way you fret many chords) all effect tone.

You could play the open g-string 20 times and have it sound slightly different all 20 times depending one where and how you pick it. Some are more prone to certain techniques, therefor: yours will be ever so slightly different than mine.

I think the only reason anyone called you a 'jerk' is the simple fact that you won't even entertain, or refute the other point of view with an argument that would nullify the points that are 'pro' 'tone is in the fingers'.
You just keep saying, 'tone is in the gear', but you're not giving us a succinct argument explaining WHY we're wrong, other than 'tone = sound' but of course, we all know that.

To a point, we'll all agree with you, I believe, but the point most of us are trying to make is that you, the player, and not just with your 'style' but your physical attributes also are part of the 'gear' when playing an instrument like this and you do change the tone ever so slightly.

It starts with your body, your hands, the strings, then the wood, then the p/ups, then the cabling, the effects (if you have them in front) then the pre-amp electronics, then more effects if you have them in a loop, then the power amp, then the speakers, then, if you're playing through a PA, the PA systems electronics and effects, then the loudspeakers...

Sure, by the time you get to the end of the chain you'd think it isn't going to matter since you are such a small part of the chain, but it STARTS with you...

You can't argue that I'm wrong about where this chain of events that eventually comes out of the last speaker starts; it's with the player, what you're arguing is that the player has no effect on the overall sound... other than his 'style and technique' tell me WHY he doesn't, don't just say 'he doesn't' and then tell me I don't know the definition of 'tone' as your argument as to why I'm wrong.

WHY don't my fingers effect anything at all, as you're saying?

WHY does my body coming in contact with wood that's vibrating not make a difference in the way it vibrates?

If you can clearly and logically explain why those things are true, I'll concede the point and agree with you that 'tone isn't in the fingers', but until you can give me a succinct argument as to why I'm wrong, we'll just have to agree to disagree... I've already concluded that no amount of points of concept are going to sway your opinion on this, and yes, it is an 'opinion' until you can quantify it with facts that can't be argued to the contrary.

Just one last point: you can't compare a piano to an instrument like a guitar or violin, you don't come in direct contact with anything but the keys so, technically, the only effect you really have on the strings is how hard the hammers hit the strings, and unless you're sitting on the piano you have very little contact with the woods that are resonating. Put 500 pounds of blankets on your piano it it will sound a little different since the wood will vibrate differently, this, in an abstract way, is the point I'm trying to make about having so much of your body in contact with a guitar, or violin, or cello, or viola, or a trumpet or any instrument where so much of what's happening is because of your direct contact with the parts of the instrument that produce the sound being heard.

I know I've repeated myself, I'm trying to put this in as many ways as I can to make it understandable to everyone, regardless of their native language.
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post #59 of 137 (permalink) Old 03-19-2012, 02:00 AM
 
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Re: Is there a difference in sound/feel/etc. between the different wood types?

Don't burst blood vessel micjustmic.........your point i right but conversations like this incite flame wars between the hearing and the tone deaf.........and those that like to just start ****
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post #60 of 137 (permalink) Old 03-19-2012, 02:16 AM
 
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Re: Is there a difference in sound/feel/etc. between the different wood types?

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Don't burst blood vessel micjustmic.........your point i right but conversations like this incite flame wars between the hearing and the tone deaf.........and those that like to just start ****
LOL I'm perfectly calm, but thanks for your concern.

You're correct, however... this is pointless since I'm not going to change his mind on the subject, no matter how logical and detailed my points to the 'pro' side of this debate may be. He doesn't even seem to want to entertain the idea at all... so again: pointless to continue.

I've said many times that I should have gone to school for law instead of electronics since I believe I could have made a pretty good litigator... I do love a good, civil argument.

I'm not always right, of course, but I do my best to be as detailed as possible to make you understand WHY I THINK I'm correct on a subject and offer the chance, and even beg for, arguments to the contrary of my opinion that are as detailed and succinct.

However: I often simply get the standard, "You're wrong, and you won't understand it if I explain it to you."

That usually means, "I think you're wrong, but I haven't thought this through enough to give you a good argument, so I'm just going to drop it and consider myself the victor."

Obviously, that's not winning an argument, that's simply conceding they don't know how to argue their point and don't want to embarrass themselves by stumbling through a half-baked explanation that will most likely be the farthest thing from making their point.

And to the contrary of my 'not understanding' I have a fairly above average I.Q. (not going to brag here any more than that. LOL) and finished 4.0 when I got my degrees in electronics and computer engineering... so I think I can follow just about any argument. (Don't know why I was compelled to throw that in, it's just that often people try to insult my intelligence and it is the one thing that does make me want to burst a blood vessel. J/K )

Yes, I know, I type a lot.

I speak this way too, and most of the people I know, even those that don't agree with me on things, at least respect that I go to great lengths to make my points understood.
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