Wenge vs KTS - Jemsite
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post #1 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-27-2018, 04:09 AM Thread Starter
 
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Wenge vs KTS

For 2018, various guitars (such as RG8570Z) seem to have replace Maple/Walnut/KTS necks, with Maple/Wenge. [The Wenge strips are *much* wider than walnut ones.]

Anyone know the reason for the change ?

Is it progress, or economical ?
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post #2 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-27-2018, 07:22 AM
 
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Re: Wenge vs KTS

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Originally Posted by scallybert View Post
For 2018, various guitars (such as RG8570Z) seem to have replace Maple/Walnut/KTS necks, with Maple/Wenge. [The Wenge strips are *much* wider than walnut ones.]

Anyone know the reason for the change ?

Is it progress, or economical ?
All the 'progress' is hidden inside the neck in the form of carbon and titanium reinforcement, as a result you can make a neck out of whatever you like these days, even balsa wood could be made to work if needed. The neck is simply a support for your hand and laminated necks are more stable than solid necks, much better for professional quality gigging instruments.

Wenge is however a cheaper timber than Walnut, so make of that what you will.
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post #3 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-27-2018, 03:54 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Wenge vs KTS

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Originally Posted by sepulchrave View Post
All the 'progress' is hidden inside the neck in the form of carbon and titanium reinforcement, as a result you can make a neck out of whatever you like these days, even balsa wood could be made to work if needed. The neck is simply a support for your hand and laminated necks are more stable than solid necks, much better for professional quality gigging instruments.

Wenge is however a cheaper timber than Walnut, so make of that what you will.
The walnut content always seemed tiny - like a strip of veneer between the adjacent maple. It almost seemed cosmetic.

I think what's really telling is the swapping of titanium for wenge; but why ?

Given these are J.Custom models, you wouldn't expect them [Ibanez] to compromise the stability. [?]

Tonal issues ? Wenge is presumably lighter than titanium [wood floats, metal doesn't...] ?
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post #4 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-27-2018, 04:08 PM
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Re: Wenge vs KTS

Wenge is extremely strong. Wood floats because it's less dense than water, titanium is not.

I always saw KTS as an expensive marketing campaign. They only used it in expensive guitars IMO as a way of justifying the expense on the guitars, by using something that was, expensive. Stupid cyclic argument IMO.

What we're talking about is, do I have to make a truss rod adjustment more often or not? It's not like you were never going to have to make an adjustment. If you play a guitar you should absolutely know how to keep it playable, and that means knowing how to make a truss adjustment.
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post #5 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-27-2018, 06:45 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Wenge vs KTS

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Wenge is extremely strong.
Cool. That's what I suspected.
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Wood floats because it's less dense than water, titanium is not.
Exactly. So titanium is heavier than the wood it replaces. This may be a bad thing in terms of balance.
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I always saw KTS as an expensive marketing campaign. They only used it in expensive guitars IMO as a way of justifying the expense on the guitars, by using something that was, expensive. Stupid cyclic argument IMO.
Certainly a possibility.

Comparing a 3250 against 652 [same shallow necks], it's possible the KTS is there to stiffen necks that are subject to trem abuse. Maybe...

Quote:
What we're talking about is, do I have to make a truss rod adjustment more often or not? It's not like you were never going to have to make an adjustment. If you play a guitar you should absolutely know how to keep it playable, and that means knowing how to make a truss adjustment.
Ok. Some people might argue that one, but it's a fair view-point.

OTOH, on these shallow 17/19 necks [652, 3250, etc] they get closer to floating under normal use [ie moving as you tune], compared to deeper necks. So stiffening via KTS maybe makes sense.

That aside, if wenge gives comparable stiffening, with less weight and (maybe) better tone, that seems like a positive result. Cool.
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post #6 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-27-2018, 07:10 PM
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Re: Wenge vs KTS

I doubt the titanium is heavier, it's very lightweight.

KTS was on 3250's, and 3250's Listed for like $2666, Like I said, expensive guitars,. to justify expensive [MO]

Now they only use them on the S's I think? Still, expensive guitars.

Under tuning? Want to see a neck move drop the bar. KTS or 1 piece it's probably going into backbow if you have little relief.

I don't think anybody should argue that every guitar player should know how to keep their instrument in playing condition. That doesn't mean you can't be lazy and have a Thomas in your back pocket, but I guarantee you Steve knows how to maintain and adjust his guitar. His time is too valuable to spend doing it though.
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post #7 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-27-2018, 07:38 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Wenge vs KTS

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I doubt the titanium is heavier, it's very lightweight.
We've just agreed that titanium is more dense than wood [wood floats, metals don't], so titanium weighs more than the wood it replaces/displaces. [See pictures of sectioned KTS necks, there are chunks of Ti in there.]

[...]Yep.

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I don't think anybody should argue that every guitar player should know how to keep their instrument in playing condition. That doesn't mean you can't be lazy and have a Thomas in your back pocket, but I guarantee you Steve knows how to maintain and adjust his guitar. His time is too valuable to spend doing it though.
Never done it on my more traditional guitars, though.

Maybe I should have, but it didn't seem necessary...
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post #8 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-27-2018, 07:47 PM
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Re: Wenge vs KTS

It weighs more in the same volume, but it is not the same volume.
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post #9 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-27-2018, 07:59 PM
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Kts was a gimmick and obviously two thicker Wenge pieces substitute nicely since Titanium is flexible, requires more wood routing and surely doesn't 100% bond to the wood it allegedly stabilized (and Ibanez claims d improves sound of lol).
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post #10 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-27-2018, 08:07 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Wenge vs KTS

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It weighs more in the same volume, but it is not the same volume.
It looks like it does here..: https://goo.gl/images/Un2y52 ?

[Ti is same volume as the wood it's displaced.]
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post #11 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-27-2018, 08:12 PM
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Re: Wenge vs KTS

No, the wenge is the full depth of the maple. The rod is not.

The only benefit to the rods is they are on the inside so you can't feel the difference in the grain of wenge or walnut beside the smooth maple, which many complain about, still.
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post #12 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-28-2018, 04:02 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Wenge vs KTS

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No, the wenge is the full depth of the maple. The rod is not.
True, but I was arguing something a little different.

I meant the Ti weighs more than the wood removed to form the channel it sits in; so adding the Ti rods makes the neck heavier.

I guess I was assuming that wenge and maple are of comparable densities, so a maple/wenge neck would weigh pretty much the same as a maple or maple/walnut one.

This is not be the case [Maple: 600 - 750 ; Wenge 870], so the maple/wenge neck would be heavier. Whether it's heavier than the maple/walnut/KTS one, would be harder to tell - however, Ti is 4 times denser than Wenge, so it seems possible.

Quote:
The only benefit to the rods is they are on the inside so you can't feel the difference in the grain of wenge or walnut beside the smooth maple, which many complain about, still.
Interesting.

That aside, it does sounds like wenge has potential advantages over KTS - which is what I wanted to hear..!
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post #13 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-28-2018, 04:08 AM
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Re: Wenge vs KTS

We're talking so little weight as to be unnoticeable. The difference between one piece of maple and the next would be greater than the difference between Ti, Wenge, or Maple.
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post #14 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-28-2018, 04:29 AM
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Re: Wenge vs KTS

Doing the math using 20% of the .00005m3 for a fretboard you're talking about a difference of 1 ounce between an all maple neck and a maple wenge 5 piece neck, distributed over the entire length of the neck.

Unnoticeable.
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post #15 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-28-2018, 04:54 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Wenge vs KTS

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Doing the math using 20% of the .00005m3 for a fretboard you're talking about a difference of 1 ounce between an all maple neck and a maple wenge 5 piece neck, distributed over the entire length of the neck.

Unnoticeable.
Cool. [That's what I want to hear.]
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