Why all the Edge Zero hate? - Jemsite
All Other Guitars (including Prestige) Discussion about other Ibanez Guitars not covered in the above topics. Includes J-Custom, USA-Custom, Prestige subforum.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 63 (permalink) Old 09-21-2009, 09:53 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 12
Why all the Edge Zero hate?

It seems that everyone here bashes the Edge Zero; why is that?
no.mop is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 63 (permalink) Old 09-21-2009, 10:02 PM
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Rochester NY
Posts: 387
Re: Why all the Edge Zero hate?

Because its not as good as the original edge, the edge pro,or the edge lo-pro.
Why replace something great with something that is worse and expect people to be happy.
Ibanez will not have a good answer for that besides money I guess.
corpraider69 is offline  
post #3 of 63 (permalink) Old 09-21-2009, 11:32 PM
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: East Cost, U.S.
Posts: 164
Re: Why all the Edge Zero hate?

I don't agree with the last post. I think their answer would be that they're trying something new, which is perfectly fine in my opinion. What if everyone started bitching when they started making the Lo Pro instead of the original Edge? We would never have had the best Ibanez trem ever! (in my opinion, that is)

Not to mention, I'm not sure how the "money" argument could work with the Edge Zero. It looks like a more complicated design and requires more components to make it work. Wouldn't that make it more expensive for Ibanez to produce? Could be wrong, obviously, but it seems logical.

To answer the question, though - I hate the Edge Zero for two major reasons: all the guitars I've played with them seem to feel a little stiffer and I don't like a stiff playing guitar. The other reason is that it seems to stick up too much and it sort of pushes into my right hand. It's as if it's too high or something. Another more superficial reason is that I think it looks ugly as hell.
SnakeEyes is offline  
post #4 of 63 (permalink) Old 09-22-2009, 03:24 AM
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Encino, California
Posts: 336
Reviews: 4
Re: Why all the Edge Zero hate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeEyes View Post
I don't agree with the last post. I think their answer would be that they're trying something new, which is perfectly fine in my opinion. What if everyone started bitching when they started making the Lo Pro instead of the original Edge? We would never have had the best Ibanez trem ever! (in my opinion, that is)

Not to mention, I'm not sure how the "money" argument could work with the Edge Zero. It looks like a more complicated design and requires more components to make it work. Wouldn't that make it more expensive for Ibanez to produce? Could be wrong, obviously, but it seems logical.

To answer the question, though - I hate the Edge Zero for two major reasons: all the guitars I've played with them seem to feel a little stiffer and I don't like a stiff playing guitar. The other reason is that it seems to stick up too much and it sort of pushes into my right hand. It's as if it's too high or something. Another more superficial reason is that I think it looks ugly as hell.
It's not because "It's new and shiny."

It's beacuse it's a faulty/flawed system that was rushed onto the prestige line to avoid licensing costs. There are so many design/manufacturing faults with it, that many will never buy a guitar that has one equipped (myself included.) When it comes to that, it's a bit more that just "because it's new".

"Wouldn't that make it more expensive for Ibanez to produce?"

Nope. It's made in China.... Another strike against it, and may count towards some of manufacturing faults, however it's still an aweful design regardless.
SilverEra is offline  
post #5 of 63 (permalink) Old 09-22-2009, 10:40 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 12
Re: Why all the Edge Zero hate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEra View Post
It's not because "It's new and shiny."

It's beacuse it's a faulty/flawed system that was rushed onto the prestige line to avoid licensing costs. There are so many design/manufacturing faults with it, that many will never buy a guitar that has one equipped (myself included.) When it comes to that, it's a bit more that just "because it's new".

"Wouldn't that make it more expensive for Ibanez to produce?"

Nope. It's made in China.... Another strike against it, and may count towards some of manufacturing faults, however it's still an aweful design regardless.
What kind of design faults are there?
no.mop is offline  
post #6 of 63 (permalink) Old 09-22-2009, 10:45 AM
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: East Cost, U.S.
Posts: 164
Re: Why all the Edge Zero hate?

I'm not arguing because I really have no idea, but how do you know it was "rushed onto the Prestige line"? Also, where were the Edge, Lo Pro and Edge Pro made? The only design flaw I see is that it's not very comfortable (at least for me). As far as I know, it functions as it should, no?
SnakeEyes is offline  
post #7 of 63 (permalink) Old 09-22-2009, 11:27 AM
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Argentina
Posts: 2,221
Re: Why all the Edge Zero hate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeEyes View Post
I'm not arguing because I really have no idea, but how do you know it was "rushed onto the Prestige line"? Also, where were the Edge, Lo Pro and Edge Pro made? The only design flaw I see is that it's not very comfortable (at least for me). As far as I know, it functions as it should, no?
"Edge" and "Lo Pro Edge" were japanese made by Gotoh.

"Edge Pro", dont know and dont like it, so, I dont care...

"Edge Zero", China. Kinda kills the point of having a really expensive japanese built guitar.
marianozz is offline  
post #8 of 63 (permalink) Old 09-22-2009, 12:05 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Encino, California
Posts: 336
Reviews: 4
Re: Why all the Edge Zero hate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeEyes View Post
I'm not arguing because I really have no idea, but how do you know it was "rushed onto the Prestige line"? Also, where were the Edge, Lo Pro and Edge Pro made? The only design flaw I see is that it's not very comfortable (at least for me). As far as I know, it functions as it should, no?
Well, it being rushed into in for 2008 seems the most likely conclusion for them to release such a god-awfull trem. Either they rushed it, ie, didn't give enough time for proper tests/not enough time to redesign flaws etc... or, they didn't rush it, knew full well that it had issues, and released it anyway on the grounds of money. Actually, now I think about it, it could be either, knowing Ibanez these days...

The Edge, Lo-Pro and Edge Pro were all made in Japan by Gotoh.
The Edge Zero is made in China. Along with bad design, it has bad manufacturing too. And this is the bridge 99% of top-shelf Ibanez's are sporting now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeEyes View Post
"The only design flaw I see is that it's not very comfortable (at least for me). As far as I know, it functions as it should, no?"
There are tons of flaws, either design or manufacturing.

Fine Tuners are crap,

Intonation tool screws into the trem like a wart. Couldn't they just have included it in the bag with all the other tools?

ZPS system is either flawed, or some systems work better than others. Either way, it's either a design or manufacturing issue. When setup correctly, it gives a flat return on a pull-up.

Tiny sustain block to make way for the ZPS which doesn't work properly..,

...Which naturally leads to less sustain/tone,

Also because of the tiny sustain block, there's only room for two spings, which makes using higher gauge stings difficult. (You're really screwed if you want high gauge springs and the ZPS system.)


None of these issues we should have to deal with on a "Prestige" guitar. Even if these problems were solved, most people don't like the feel/look anyway...
Yes, it stays in tune, but so do the previous trems. And those ones didn't have ANY of these issues.
SilverEra is offline  
post #9 of 63 (permalink) Old 09-22-2009, 12:29 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 797
Re: Why all the Edge Zero hate?

Some of those are all valid points.

I agree on the fine tuner issue. They aren't placed well.

The intonation screw, which works great and saves lots of time, does look out of place when screwed into the base.

However, I've had no issues with my gauge of strings (9-46).
The sustain block is questionable.....has anyone really done extensive testing to verify this? Until someone can prove it's worse with some good solid data, that is only an opinion at best.

All 3 of my J-Customs stay in tune perfectly without any issues with this bar. They sustain very well. I have a friends white Jem here with the older bar and there is no difference in sustain timing a bent up note around the 12th fret. The both drop off in about the same amount of time. I don't know if that is way of measuring but that is what we did. In fact, all three of my J-Customs were very slightly longer if anything.

I'm hoping that one of those online places like Floydparts will make a nice Brass replacement block like they do for the previous Edge trem and that would probably work nicely!
PBGas is offline  
post #10 of 63 (permalink) Old 09-22-2009, 12:36 PM
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: England
Posts: 238
Reviews: 1
Re: Why all the Edge Zero hate?

Just a thought on the intonation screw.......why not take it out and put it in the bag yourself. Im not trying to be sarcastic because i agree that its ugly but i just took mine out and put it in the bag and it looks much better
bates is offline  
post #11 of 63 (permalink) Old 09-22-2009, 12:57 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Encino, California
Posts: 336
Reviews: 4
Re: Why all the Edge Zero hate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bates View Post
Just a thought on the intonation screw.......why not take it out and put it in the bag yourself. Im not trying to be sarcastic because i agree that its ugly but i just took mine out and put it in the bag and it looks much better
Because it then has a huge visible hole in it. :P
It's better, but by no means good.
SilverEra is offline  
post #12 of 63 (permalink) Old 09-22-2009, 01:21 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Encino, California
Posts: 336
Reviews: 4
Re: Why all the Edge Zero hate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PBGas View Post
Some of those are all valid points.
However, I've had no issues with my gauge of strings (9-46).
The sustain block is questionable.....has anyone really done extensive testing to verify this? Until someone can prove it's worse with some good solid data, that is only an opinion at best.
I did some quite large sustain tests with my RG2550Z and my RG2550E. (Which have now both been sold).

Both were exactly the same in every aspect, appart from the bridge.
Both had about 0.5mm relief at the 9th fret, and both had 2.5mm action at the 24th fret for the Low E, and 2.5mm action for the High E, (I tried to take all fret-leveling issues out of equation.) I was using D'addario XL's 9-42 on each. Amp was my fathers old Peavey 50-watt tube amp (no idea what model). Tubes were a few weeks old and worked perfectly. Amp Settings were the same for each guitar.

THE DATA

On fretted notes from 1st-24th fret on each string, the Edge Zero had about 4-5 seconds (on average) less sustain than the Edge Pro.

On harmonics, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 12th and 24th were tested. The Edge Zero had 2-4 seconds (on average) less sustain than the Edge Pro.



To me, the tone of the Edge Pro sounded much fatter than the Edge Zero. That sort of thing is totally subjective and is in no way measurable. But sustain I did measure, and those are the results.

Also, you won't have any issues with strings unless you go to about 11's, which I do sometimes. Tried it with the Edge Zero and with only the two spings, (even though their fairly stiff), I couldn't get the trem level.



EDIT -- TESTS DONE WITH MILD VIBRATO ON TREMOLO BAR !!!

Last edited by SilverEra; 09-22-2009 at 05:42 PM. Reason: fixed
SilverEra is offline  
post #13 of 63 (permalink) Old 09-22-2009, 02:42 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 879
Re: Why all the Edge Zero hate?

After responding to SilverEra's complaints in another post, I think I can sum up the Edge Pro hate:

People confuse preference with fact.

SilverEra, its cool that you got to do an A/B test with the same guitar, one with Edge Pro, the other with the Zero. In a perfect sense, that is what should be done all the time. I cannot vouch for your sustain figures because I did not. My Edge Zero apparently sustains to the point of sustaining "enough".

What bothers me is the subjective stuff. Its like someone who prefers a tun-o-matic + stop bar claiming that Floyds are crap. No...you just prefer the hardtail. It doesn't make the other one crap. Your comment about the tuners for example. Not something I have trouble with (apparently the edge of my hand is 6 inches wide like you King Kongs! ), but this is valid because its something to watch out for. The intonation tool? That's more aesthetic, IMO. Its cool to say you don't like something because of something subjective, but ultimately it should come down to the facts.
RedTiger is offline  
post #14 of 63 (permalink) Old 09-22-2009, 03:22 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Encino, California
Posts: 336
Reviews: 4
Re: Why all the Edge Zero hate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedTiger View Post
The intonation tool? That's more aesthetic, IMO. Its cool to say you don't like something because of something subjective, but ultimately it should come down to the facts.
I chose to include the intonation tool because I found that people have gripes about it. I also find it to be pretty piss-poor design by Ibanez. Aestheic or not, it's still design. Having an ugly tool screw into the trem face when they could've just as easily (if not easier) to include it in the bag of tools, is just plain stupid.

I was talking about the design as a WHOLE, not just performance that you can measure. But to be fair, that was my only gripe that was aesthetic or "subjective". All others have been confirmed to be a step backwards in quality from previous trems.
SilverEra is offline  
post #15 of 63 (permalink) Old 09-22-2009, 03:54 PM
Super Moderator
 
jono's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: England
Posts: 7,112
Reviews: 1
Re: Why all the Edge Zero hate?

Aesthetics play a HUGE part in guitar buying for me. If a guitar doesn't look great I won't even bother to pick it up, let alone take it home!!!

My dislike of the visual side, extends beyond the screw in intonation tool
jono is offline  
Reply

Tags
edge , floating , ibanez , original , pro

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Jemsite forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address

IMPORTANT: You will be required to activate your account so please ensure that your email address is correct.

If you do not receive your activation check your spam folder before using the CONTACT US form (at the bottom right of each page).



Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
i hate emg mrjakob69 Pickups & wiring 7 06-27-2009 03:35 PM
Why the hate? MicahC Players & Bands, Music & Sounds, Tours & Jams, Lessons & Theory! 36 06-08-2008 06:33 PM
I Hate the bay............ jb4674 Off-topic / Miscellaneous 13 07-24-2007 04:50 AM
Something I hate... Knightmeir Vendors, Auction & Reseller Talk 16 05-23-2005 08:11 PM
Don't hate me! Please! Given to Fly All Other Guitars (including Prestige) 7 08-19-2002 11:27 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome