why cant nu metal use 7 string guitars? - Page 11 - Jemsite
All Other Guitars (including Prestige) Discussion about other Ibanez Guitars not covered in the above topics. Includes J-Custom, USA-Custom, Prestige subforum.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #151 of 190 (permalink) Old 09-17-2002, 09:45 AM
dex
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 2,109
Quote:
Originally Posted by toshiro
The younger crowd seems to think low tunings=heavy. Every time I see someone mention the word, some B string riff is always refered to as 'really heavy', or it 'gets heavier'.
Then the heaviest band I've heard is called Spinal Tap.
They have a song (can't remember the name.......something Bottom) that is played exclusivelly on bass guitars.
There are 3 bass guitars and drums on that song.

Surelly this is as heavy as one can go.

Ooooooohhhhh. I forgot.
They can always tune down to Bb.
dex is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #152 of 190 (permalink) Old 09-17-2002, 03:11 PM
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: West Sussex, England
Posts: 936
Korn, being a band with many influences are a very different band to anyone. They are sertainly not a rip off of anyone and they do not shout every minuit. Dave Silvera's stand in drummer was introduced for the remainder of the 'issues' tour becuase Dave had played the drum so hard and powerful (he never had any lessons so he was used to having a hard hand) that he broke his wrist. This slowed down the 'Untouchables' album.

I prefer Korn to any band at the moment as they are COMPLETLY original. They may have influences but if you put all of them together you get a totally different sound.
Chud is offline  
post #153 of 190 (permalink) Old 09-17-2002, 03:40 PM
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 599
Quote:
They have a song (can't remember the name.......something Bottom) that is played exclusivelly on bass guitars.
I believe you're referring to "Big Bottom"
Reaper is offline  
post #154 of 190 (permalink) Old 09-17-2002, 03:47 PM
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dex
F.Y.I after Mike Borden left Faith no More, Trey Lea Spruance (that's right, from Mr Bungle) played guitar in Faith no More
Mmmmm....hey Dex, acutally Faith no More's guitar player WAS Jim Martin; Mike Bordin was their drummer!!!, Jim Martin left around '94, and yes, Trey Spruance filled in his place, but Bordin never left the band, when he was not on tour or in studio with FNM, he was doing drums for Ozzy after Randy Castillo left, aaaaand when FNM broke up ( ), he decided to play full-time with Ozzy....

P.S. And I love Korn as much as I love Faitn no More
SeRcH is offline  
post #155 of 190 (permalink) Old 09-17-2002, 04:42 PM
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,989
BTW, if you mean to tell me that Faith No More sounded exactly like Korn does now (Untouchables album), they were WAY ahead of their time.
Two hands31 is offline  
post #156 of 190 (permalink) Old 09-17-2002, 06:26 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Illinoize!!
Posts: 1,418
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dex
Music, rifs, song structure, time signatures (or the lack of any ) drum patterns.

If you can take away the vocals for a caraoke, you won't be able to tell which is which.

Well you might since Faith are better and can actually play, but what you'll end up with will be Mariah Carey (Faith) and Christina Aguilerra (Korn).

And then some 12year old kid will say "Christina is superb/new/influential/etc....." and "Who is Mariah Carey?"

Or Randy Rhoads and Kirk Hammett.
Kirk was VERY lucky that Randy died, otherwise he would have been branded a copycat. And not a very good copycat at that.

And we will be smiling and thinking ......."Kids"
That's a pretty subjective statement. So with that, I'd like to say that Mariah Carey is nothing compared to Celine Dion. Seriously.

I'm 26, and I've never, ever heard any of my musician friends listen to Korn and say "wow, what a FNM rip-off". And thats whether they liked FMN, Korn, or both.

It's a really drastic comparison. It's like saying Metallica and Anthrax in their early days sounded the same, because they both played fast and ushered in the American heavy metal movement.
Polaris20 is offline  
post #157 of 190 (permalink) Old 09-18-2002, 02:24 AM
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Norway
Posts: 312
I also don't think Korn sounds too much like FNM, I never thought they sounded anything like, then magazines n **** started sayin they were mainly influenced by FNM. I do think Korn were pretty original when they first started, they had alot of hard tuned down groovy riffs, and the vocals weren't really similar to any other bands that I can think of.

As for the whole nu metal thing. I can't wait for it to pass...I am so sick of all the bands comming out sounding the same. I used to love nu metal when i was really into korn in the Life is peachy - follow the leader era. About a year ago or somethin like that, I just got so bored of it I started listening to hardcore and more old skool metal, thats when I realized how simple nu metal is, its just boring. That's my oppinion.

I think low tunings sound harder and heavier then normal tunings, it just makes it sound thicker and well...can't think of any words...just harder heh. But even tho it's not tuned down it can still b heavy, like old skool metallica, I just prefer my riffs tuned down.

Kim
Wound is offline  
post #158 of 190 (permalink) Old 09-18-2002, 06:41 AM
dex
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 2,109
This all thread got sidetracked completelly.

It's mostly my fault.
I'm not a misician. Never wanted to be one. I'm an economics major and spend my days infront of a PC testing prediction power of statistical models.
I'm a music user, not maker.
Also I enjoy listening to the music exclusivelly and the lyrics mean NOTHING to me. If a tune works for me on a musical level and can trigger any emotion, I will listen to it.
If it does't do anything for me................ I won't listen to it.

I grew up with Faith No More, Metallica, Kreator, Exodus, Sodom, Slayer, Living Death, Coroner and a bunch of other bands.

Listening to most of heavy metal (or nu metal) music today is like listening to the bands I listed above play whyle they are under the influence of heavy drugs or alcohol.
You can still hear the motifs, the rifs and the general ideas, but the agression, the feeling and the togetherness of it all has been somewhat diluted.
That's why I say "Korn sound like Faith"
They don't sound like Faith completelly, but it's close.
It's like Pearl Jam and Nickelback.
Many people will say Nickelback sound NOTHING like Pearl Jam or Meshuggah sound NOTHING like Metallica or BLUE sound NOTHING like Take That but to me they do.
Musically they do sound very alike.
To the extent that if you had never heard of Faith or Korn and hear one Faith album and then one Korn album you would think it's the same band.
I can hear it, if you can't, then listen to Korn all you like.

Please don't say they are original.
Please...............
dex is offline  
post #159 of 190 (permalink) Old 09-18-2002, 07:28 AM
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Illinoize!!
Posts: 1,418
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dex
This all thread got sidetracked completelly.

It's mostly my fault.
I'm not a misician. Never wanted to be one. I'm an economics major and spend my days infront of a PC testing prediction power of statistical models.
I'm a music user, not maker.
Also I enjoy listening to the music exclusivelly and the lyrics mean NOTHING to me. If a tune works for me on a musical level and can trigger any emotion, I will listen to it.
If it does't do anything for me................ I won't listen to it.

I grew up with Faith No More, Metallica, Kreator, Exodus, Sodom, Slayer, Living Death, Coroner and a bunch of other bands.

Listening to most of heavy metal (or nu metal) music today is like listening to the bands I listed above play whyle they are under the influence of heavy drugs or alcohol.
You can still hear the motifs, the rifs and the general ideas, but the agression, the feeling and the togetherness of it all has been somewhat diluted.
That's why I say "Korn sound like Faith"
They don't sound like Faith completelly, but it's close.
It's like Pearl Jam and Nickelback.
Many people will say Nickelback sound NOTHING like Pearl Jam or Meshuggah sound NOTHING like Metallica or BLUE sound NOTHING like Take That but to me they do.
Musically they do sound very alike.
To the extent that if you had never heard of Faith or Korn and hear one Faith album and then one Korn album you would think it's the same band.
I can hear it, if you can't, then listen to Korn all you like.

Please don't say they are original.
Please...............
I didn't say they were original. No musician is completely original. There's only so many tones to play.

And the Nickelback/Pearl Jam comment? Jeez, first time I've ever heard that.

I totally can't stand Pearl Jam, and I love Nickelback. What does that say for their likeness? Everyone I know feels the same way. Nickelback=good, Pearl Jam=suck.

Opinions I know, but still I can't vaguely see the similarities. I wasn't aware Pearl Jam used dropped D regularly.
Polaris20 is offline  
post #160 of 190 (permalink) Old 09-18-2002, 07:56 AM
dex
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 2,109
Quote:
Originally Posted by dex
It's like Pearl Jam and Nickelback.
Many people will say Nickelback sound NOTHING like Pearl Jam or Meshuggah sound NOTHING like Metallica or BLUE sound NOTHING like Take That but to me they do.
Musically they do sound very alike.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polaris20
And the Nickelback/Pearl Jam comment? Jeez, first time I've ever heard that.

I totally can't stand Pearl Jam, and I love Nickelback. What does that say for their likeness? Everyone I know feels the same way. Nickelback=good, Pearl Jam=suck.

Opinions I know, but still I can't vaguely see the similarities. I wasn't aware Pearl Jam used dropped D regularly.
It's not about tuning or technique.
It's about MUSIC.
And if you listened to "Ten" and "VS" in the early nineties, now Nickelback will remind you of Pearl Jam. A lot.

I'm done here, because this feels like talking Led Zeppelin to a die hard Gun's or Aerosmith fans.
dex is offline  
post #161 of 190 (permalink) Old 09-18-2002, 11:44 AM
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: West Sussex, England
Posts: 936
If this thread is totally going to Korn then make a new thread.

I love pearl Jam and i think that NickleBack should start being to vocal orientated...If you know what i mean. You see, i think that Chad the singler/guitarist is to much a main part of the band. The minuit someone says Nickleback they think of him because he's taking to much of a frontman veiw. Thats my opinoion
Chud is offline  
post #162 of 190 (permalink) Old 09-18-2002, 12:26 PM
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: California, USA
Posts: 1,901
Reviews: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Two hands31
I'm a huge Korn fan. I also can't stand the fact that everyone bashes Korn, but no one bashes most of the other nu-metallers out there. It's because Korn's the most famous one out there. But the truth is, no one who bashes them actually gave them a good listen to begin with. With claims like "Why do they use 7-strings? They only use them for that floppy low-tuned sound cuz of their crazy tuning, they don't even use the high strings" I get really mad. First of all, they use the high strings A LOT. Second of all, tuning down a step is not an exclusive thing of theirs, it's just well known that they do it and people like to hate them. And they like people to hate them, cuz they find it amusing.
Korn gets bashed most because they're:

A. symptomatic of the problem as a whole
B. the most visible example


Part A expanded: Korn was the progenitor of almost all that many people find ridiculous in nu-metal. Other bands have taken it to stupider excess - but they started it. It's the same reason people blame EVH and Vai for shred...not so much because of their music- but because they inspired guys like Yngwie and Impelliterri to go even farther. You see, it was Jonathan Davis' constant inability to move past his childhood nerd-dom that created the niche for the losers in Staind and Papa Roach to get even worse with their teen angst lyrics. Korn's lyrics might be simple and repetitive, but they only encouraged Papa Roach who could be said to be the "Breakfast Club" of rock bands.

The music is the same way. Head and Munky aren't the worst losers to ever touch a guitar- but their success encouraged other sheep to play even worse...see Drowning Pool. So it's not Korn's stuff as much as it is what they created.


Part B.

It's the same reason people make fun of Warrant more than they do other more embarassing bands like Nitro or Sleeze Beez. Because when alterna-losers want to make fun of the 80's, they pick the band everyone knows. If they would have said "Nitro were losers" maybe 2 or 3 people would identify, but if you say "Poison were losers" - well everyone knows who they were. So it's not the worst artists who get slagged- it's the most visible ones.

Korn may be the best nu-metal band ever (BTW- that's like being named "hottest chick in a maximum security prison")- but they're going to get most of the criticism because they're the most popular too.
jem7vwh is offline  
post #163 of 190 (permalink) Old 09-18-2002, 03:37 PM
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dex
I grew up with Faith No More, Metallica, Kreator, Exodus, Sodom, Slayer, Living Death, Coroner and a bunch of other bands.
Well, then I could say that Metallica, Exodus and Slayer sound a lot like Motorhead, Black Sabbath, Kiss, Deep Purple, a little bit of Led Zeppelin and even a little bit like Queen in their most heavy moments....Everyone needs to have influences, there is no such thing as 100% original.
SeRcH is offline  
post #164 of 190 (permalink) Old 09-18-2002, 03:37 PM
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Somerville, MA
Posts: 6,200
Quote:
Originally Posted by toshiro
I believe the core of this whole thing is what each generation considers heavy, as far as bands go.
Bingo, we have a winner. This is something i've suspected for a LONG time, but have just never been able to put into words. Only thing is, while you said what you think my (appriximately, anyway, i'm sorta on the border, a little old to really be part of the nu-metal crowd at 21, but since i grew up in the grunge era, i can't really call myself part of the metal age before it...) generation calls heavy, you didn't get into your own views- listed some bands, but not what makes them heavy...

I'm not sure where i fall in the "heaviness" spectrum... for me, the heaviness falls in the groove. I suppose because i tend towards syncopated, funky, hip-hop inspired grinding riffs... Idunno, download linkin park's "With You." the pre-chorus riff in there is about the heaviest thing i've ever heard. Why? well, it IS played on a 7-string, in B... but that's not the real reason. what makes it so heavy are the following things:

1.) the way it's set up. the verse of the song is practically trip-hop; tranced out, slow, trippy. Then, out of nowhere, BAM! here comes this riff.
then, when you get to the chorus itself, it goes back to a (comparatively) half-time feel; big, sustained chords. So, we've got rule of heaviness #1; heaviness lies in contrast.

2.) It grooves, but not on a straight 1, 2, 3, 4. It's easy to follow the downbeats- any idiot could jump around and break **** to it. however, while 1 and 3 are straightforward, the neihborhood of 2 and 4 are filled with offbeat stacatto chugs and harmonic squeaks. In short, it's a very jarring riff, that you can still groove to. so, rule #2- heaviness lies in the groove.

3.) It is markedly "lower" than the surrounding material. It just so happens to be on the B, but that's regardless here; we're not talking about absolute pitch, just relative. the verse and chorus are based around an E-B-G-D progression; open E, 2nd position B bar chord, 3rd position G (i play it barred, but open would work too), and 3rd position D on the B string- essentially, dropped D's D5 chord. you then drop from there to a B an octave below; basically rififng on a syncopated B-C-B-B-B-harmonic groove. This is related to my personal rule #1- contrast. So, rule #3- heaviness can be a product of relative, not absolute pitch.

4.) It builds tension. the main verse riff and chorus riff is 8 bars long; two per chord. The pre-chorus riff is 2 bar long. It is also a much buisier riff, as previously mentioned. this creates a powerful tension that is released dramatically when you hit the chorus. So, rule #4- heaviness lies in tension and release.

*for those of you unfamiliar with this tune, DOWNLOAD IT NOW, even if you don't like Linkin Park. Two reasons for this- one, you'll be able to relate to what i'm talking about here, and be able to agree or disagree more effectively. Second, this really sounds like nothing else on the Cd. I'm not a massive LP fan- it's decent, for nu-metal, but it all sorta sounds the same... not this song. Easily the best song on the CD.*


So, how do you guys define heaviness? Hopefully, this helps... i think my rule #1 (and these are only my personal rules, that i sorta created on the spot to give you guys a look inside my head at how i judge heaviness- i don't expect anyone else to follow them, or even agree.) is the big one here; for me, the bands that are the heaviest are the ones who aren't going for the throat ALL the time. I'm just starting to get into Sevendust because of this- when they put their minds to it, they can be VERY heavy... but they also have melodic sections. I've only heard a few tunes of theirs on the radio, but if the rest of their stuff is similar, i could see myself becoming VERY fond of these guys- they're making music similar to what i've had in my head for a while.

So anyway, what makes a song or riff "heavy" to you guys?

-Drew
Drew is offline  
post #165 of 190 (permalink) Old 09-18-2002, 04:36 PM
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 599
Quote:
To the extent that if you had never heard of Faith or Korn and hear one Faith album and then one Korn album you would think it's the same band.
Well, I'm not really into either band, but I've heard some of Korn's stuff (mostly their newer stuff that's out now), and a few Faith no More songs ("Epic", and I forgot the name of the other), and let me tell you, just line "Epic" up against "Freak on a Leash" or "Here to Stay"... same band? I don't think so...
Reaper is offline  
Reply

Tags
darren wilson , dave mustaine , dave weiner , death metal , dino cazares , dweezil zappa , eddie van halen , fire garden , floating tremolo , floyd rose , guage strings , guitar mag , guitar players , guitar playing , heavy metal , high strings , jason becker , jeff beck , joe satriani , john coltrane , kerry king , kirk hammet , kirk hammett , kurt cobain , les paul , les paul classic , les pauls , limp bizkit , marty friedman , mexican strat , morbid angel , music store , neck pickup , paul gilbert , paul reed , paul reed smith , pearl jam , pinch harmonics , prs guitar , prs guitars , randy rhoads , reed smith , rob balducci , seven string guitars , steve vai , strat style , string bass , string guitars , tony macalpine , van halen , zakk wylde

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Jemsite forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address

IMPORTANT: You will be required to activate your account so please ensure that your email address is correct.

If you do not receive your activation check your spam folder before using the CONTACT US form (at the bottom right of each page).



Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How to record and pan guitars in metal? ChaserHUN Gear, Equipment, Recording & Off Topic 5 11-21-2013 05:37 PM
Should metal guitars be black? jono Polls 55 02-19-2009 03:50 AM
Looking for a techno/hardrock/metal guitars/rapcore band yoyo1299 Players & Bands, Music & Sounds, Tours & Jams, Lessons & Theory! 46 09-14-2007 07:25 AM
Suggestions for rock/metal guitars w/fixed bridge Givmefunk All Other Guitars (including Prestige) 21 05-08-2006 06:02 AM
7 string metal maliciousteve Players & Bands, Music & Sounds, Tours & Jams, Lessons & Theory! 0 06-26-2005 09:23 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome