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post #31 of 190 (permalink) Old 08-31-2002, 05:59 AM
 
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petrucci said that even if korn's guitarists only had two or three, lets say four string on their axes they would have that same type of (noise) sound: it has more with attitude than with the instrument. if they checked theur attitude a bitthey could be a better band imo. still the best nu-metal band yet imo, though i'm not really into this music.
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post #32 of 190 (permalink) Old 08-31-2002, 10:26 AM
 
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Actually, if you ACTUALLY LISTENED to Korn's music, you'd hear them hitting the high-e string more often that the low B string in some songs.
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post #33 of 190 (permalink) Old 08-31-2002, 11:49 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan7620

they can play six, really well, they just dont do it in korn cuz they felt like solos and leads have all been done before, in L.A.P.D. (pre-korn band with a dif. singer) munkey did do solos, check it out if you can find it. they grew up in the shred era, and probly can bust out with screaming leads better that alot of people on this site.
dude... Have you taken a look at some of the guys on this forum? Come on... We've got Rob frickin' Balducci, for one, have you HEARD that guy play? and Dave Weiner posts here- a sick guitarist in his own right, good enough to get the Vai gig. And there's TONS of guys of that caliber on this site, some signed or gigging solo at a similar level, and some just playing for the heck of it on their own. I've heard LAPD, and frankly, i wouldn't heasitate to cut heads with them. I mean, i'd jam with the aforementioned guys in a heartbeat as well, but i know i couldn't even begin to play at their caliber- Korn's two guitarists i wouldn't be worried about at all. They're better than you'd expect them to be, but they're NOT unusually gifted soloists.

I mean no offense by this, of course; i listen to a varied enough range of music to know that technique does not equate musicality, and hell, i still listen to a lot of punk rock (Social Distortion, NoFX, Millencollen, etc). It's just that i think there's better ways to defent KoRn than that "they could solo if they wanted to."

-Drew
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post #34 of 190 (permalink) Old 09-01-2002, 12:12 AM
 
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I knew he played 7 string too. But he was detuned none-the-less.
Like I said, this doesn't boil down to "who played 7strings/detuned first."
It is who really had an impact on modern rock music. I'm not really a huge Morbid Angel or Korn fan so I think my opinion is unbiased enough. Tell me honestly that you think MOrbid Angel had a bigger impact on music than Korn.. I don't think you can. Ask anybody who plays in a band if they know these two bands and their response will be "Morbid what?"... "Trey Aza-who?"

:P


Quote:
Originally Posted by toshiro
Quote:
Originally Posted by timdog
c'mon man...
Morbid Angel? I mean yah.. I listened to it back in the day. But they were not influencial in anyway to modern rock.

Yah they were tuned down and they were fast.. (technically they were only Bb and Korn was A.) But Bolt Thrower tuned to A back before as well...

This is about more than 7 strings and tuning low. Korn's self titled album spawned a whole genre of music. Morbid Angel was little more than blast-beats and Kerry King type solos with a "satanic" flavor IMO of course.
Sorry, Trey wasn't just downtuned, he had a 7 string even back then(he praises it in the liner notes for "Covenant").. Bash them all you like, but Pete Sandoval is a wicked drummer, and Trey could play circles around King, and all these 'modern rock' guys, rhythm and lead wise..

Listen to "Ball Tongue"(Korn - 1994), then the breakdown of "Angel Of Disease"(Morbid Angel - 1993).

But no, having a band play low-tuned metal riffs on prime time MTV had no effect, right? Like Faith no More, or Suicidal Tendencies had no effect either. It was all Korn right? And they came up with it all by themselves.. And what, pray tell, made them stop playing hair rock in L.A.P.D. and start playing the "heavy" music they do now?

This is why I have no repect for the NU-metal/Mall-core bands, they're a weak parody of the bands who influenced them, but yet they won't admit their influences.. It's like they're afraid if people heard what's really out there, they wouldn't be popular/innovative/heavy anymore.. If they owned up to it, maybe I wouldn't need to bash them so much.

I mean, I don't get mad at Iced Earth for having Maiden inspired riffs/themes.. Because they didn't come out saying it was 'innovative'.
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post #35 of 190 (permalink) Old 09-01-2002, 02:18 AM
 
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The point I was trying to make is this:

Popularity does not make music good. Starting a bunch of copy bands does not make you innovative, if your ideas have been done before.

Did Morbid Angel have an impact on Korn? Damn straight they did. 'Ball Tongue's beginning riff is a direct rip-off of one of the many riffs in 'Angel Of Disease'.. But no, Trey playing that 7 string on "Beavis and Butthead" in 1993 had no effect on music, none at all..

Ask anyone in a metal band(remember 'metal', not hair rock, or mall-core/nu-metal/whatever they're calling themselves this week) who Morbid Angel is, and I bet they'll know.. Ask anyone in a pop/rock/top40 band, and they probably won't.

The Mall-core kids probably won't, but a lot of them won't listen to anything made pre-94(or recent, for that matter) unless one of their 'heroes' mentions a specific band in an interview, or Rolling Stone gives them a rave review.

If anyone should get credit for starting this genre, it's 'Rage Against the Machine', they had almost all the traits.. Rap influences, guitarist that admits to being a 'shredder who gave it up', and lots of effects/wierd noises.. Take that, add in Korn's low tunings, and you have 90% of the bands in this genre, IMO. If we pay attention to what the band's say, though, it's not one genre, but many.. Every new band has to have it's own genre now..

The big thing now is: "We can shred, but choose not to." Then they mention people like CC Deville and Mick Mars.

Slipknot's vocalist has a new band called Stone Sour.. People online are claiming it's shred.. So, for fun, I got one of their songs.. Sounds like Slipknot, with overdubbed pinch harmonics stuck in, and a 12 second solo. Said solo was burried in the mix so you can't hear it, and was the most unmelodic thing I'd ever heard.. Rhythm playing was still weak(The guy couldn't even pull off the harmonics as part of the riff), drumming sounded basic..

Like I said before, if they didn't go around spouting all this garbage hype, I wouldn't bash them..
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post #36 of 190 (permalink) Old 09-01-2002, 02:28 AM
 
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Im not sure but I seem to remember a long time ago I heard or read about Korn saying they were directly influenced by Morbid Angel and other bands like them.
Again, I'm not to sure about it.
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post #37 of 190 (permalink) Old 09-01-2002, 02:34 AM
 
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Why are there so many rules to music now? Who cares who does what, it's if it sounds like something you want to hear. If this wasn't the case than why would people be playing music and touring and making albums? To argue different playing styles is a stupid arguement from the start.
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post #38 of 190 (permalink) Old 09-01-2002, 06:20 AM
 
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Little something to ponder.

There are many of you who are better musicians than Korn (or claim to be)..

But will you ever be as famous and respected amoungst the masses? NO.

People used to bash nirvana for being to simplistic and not polished, well myself and a lot of people I know identified with it. It was at THAT stage of my life.

Most of you guys who bash Korn just don't understand. Old age perhaps? Closed minds? i don't know, that's your call.
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post #39 of 190 (permalink) Old 09-01-2002, 06:29 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Two hands31
Actually, if you ACTUALLY LISTENED to Korn's music, you'd hear them hitting the high-e string more often that the low B string in some songs.
HEY!! just quoted JP!! peace man!
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post #40 of 190 (permalink) Old 09-01-2002, 09:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toshiro
The point I was trying to make is this:

Popularity does not make music good. Starting a bunch of copy bands does not make you innovative, if your ideas have been done before.

Ask anyone in a metal band(remember 'metal', not hair rock, or mall-core/nu-metal/whatever they're calling themselves this week) who Morbid Angel is, and I bet they'll know.. Ask anyone in a pop/rock/top40 band, and they probably won't.

If we pay attention to what the band's say, though, it's not one genre, but many.. Every new band has to have it's own genre now..

ike I said before, if they didn't go around spouting all this garbage hype, I wouldn't bash them..
Let's see, here's the stuff I'll comment on ^^^ (see above).

No, popularity does not mean music is good, but good music does become popular. What is "good music" though? It's subjective. Everyone has their own opinion, so stop trying to define it, you'll just look like a jerk.

As for that whole "ask them who Morbid Angel is" comment, who cares? They aren't trying to sound like Morbid Angel. I'm sure Morbid Angel's really cool, and has many fans, but they're not the perfect band that everyone must like/immitate.

As for the whole "everyone has to have their own genre" comment, who cares? Just listen to what you like, and let others listen to what they like, it's not a personal insult if they don't like the same band as you. And besides, most bands I know out there don't even like to classify themselves as a certain genre. That's why Papa Roach got annoyed with the press, they kept calling them "the kings of nu-metal", when they just considered themselves a rock band, because they didn't want to be tied down to one musical style, they wanted freedom to be able to do whatever they want without being called a "sell-out" or something. Korn's the same way, they don't like being classified into a genre, and 90% of bands out there don't either.

"ike I said before, if they didn't go around spouting all this garbage hype, I wouldn't bash them.."??? I'll just ignore this, cuz there's way too much wrong with it.
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post #41 of 190 (permalink) Old 09-01-2002, 10:16 AM
 
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This is a stupid thread.
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post #42 of 190 (permalink) Old 09-01-2002, 10:22 AM
 
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Yeah it is, someone should just give the dead horse a break. But until others stop discussing this, I won't stop. Just cuz I won't stay on a forum where everyone freely bashes other bands 24/7 using false information.
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post #43 of 190 (permalink) Old 09-01-2002, 12:20 PM
 
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Two hands, i actually kinda agree with you, dude. No need to hold them up to their predecessors... But that's been sorta the point of this whole KoRn debate, all their fans have been trying to justify them by saying that they COULD shred and everything if they wanted to. that's just dumb; they don't, and no one should expect them to.

The rage against the machine comment is interesting, and may help explain part of their sound... But for the other half of nu-metal, check out a band called "Thumb." These guys rock, a german-american hardcore group that's been doing rap-influenced hardcore with turntables since '93. Great stuff, and seeing as they were distributed in the states by Victory Records and Limp Bizkit broke out in the boston hardcore scene, you KNOW Fred Durst knew who these guys were. download "Deny"- cut back in 95, well before Limp Bizkit broke out, and it's total proto-nu-metal. Great track, too. Their later stuff is better, perhaps- look for "Sell Myself," dating from '97, whaile you're at it- one of my favorite tunes in any genre.

Um, anyway... back on topic. to reiterate the theme of the last 30 or so posts, the guys in Korn may come closer to using the full range of the 7 than many of their peers, but they still don't really NEED all 7 strings. hence the 7-string backlash.

Very good point about nirvana, huge fan of theirs, although i feel Cobain is a far superior vocalist than Davis. Could just be a generational thing, though.

-Drew
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post #44 of 190 (permalink) Old 09-01-2002, 01:15 PM
 
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Actually, if they suddenly dropped 6-strings, they'd have to ditch their entire back catalogue. So they DO need 7-strings. Your logic appears to be that no one needs 7-strings, but by that logic, no one needs 6 either. Korn needs 7-strings because they include notes around the 24th fret on the high-e string, mixed with riffs on the low-B string.
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post #45 of 190 (permalink) Old 09-01-2002, 04:56 PM
 
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Never mind, two hands, i was trying to agree with you. My point was just that their music wouldn't be funamentally different without that extra string, not that they never use it. And really, does any of this matter? It's all music, dude.
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