Why so much hate for Indo standard RGs? - Jemsite
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post #1 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-01-2014, 11:26 AM Thread Starter
 
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Why so much hate for Indo standard RGs?

Okay, I've read LOTS of comments by Rich and various other people here on their absolute disdain for the standard RGs made in Indonesia. They give reasons to support their claims and I believe them when they talk about certain defects occurring.

HOWEVER, no one seems to mention that the Indo-made standard RGs, even with faults (or in my case no major issues at all) are SOLID axes.

Complaints about fret ends? Mine doesn't have em.

EZII is unreliable? Bull, it's one of my most stable bridges on ALL of my ibanezes. I almost never have to tune it it's so stable. It's on par with my OE and Lo pros.

Binding falling off? Not on mine, Binding is REALLY well done.

Not up to the standard of MIJs? Maybe not entirely, but my 350EXZ plays great and would make an EXCELLENT gigging axe.

The ONLY issue mine has is POSSIBLY it needs a shim. THAT'S IT.

So to anyone out there reading the negative comments about the Indo-made standard RGs, here's a thread for a counter-argument. Go try one and if you like it, buy it. They are solid axes for the price, and I would trust an indo-made Ibanez over any similar priced Fender/Gibson.
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post #2 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-01-2014, 11:38 AM
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Re: Why so much hate for Indo standard RGs?

LOTS of capitals there, evidently something hit a nerve

The only thing wrong with the EZ2 is its low quality manufacture. It's a very stable bridge, if you read my NAMM reports I've said nothing but that, that now entry level Ibanez finally have a stable trem system, but it has plenty of faults and bugs also.

As for the guitars, they meet a price point. They'll work for a guitar if you need a guitar. Are they professional level instrument? Seriously, ask yourself that question. These are guitars for those with lower budgets, student, or beginners, add those that really don't care about the quality of the guitar they play. Does anybody NEED a better guitar to play? That's in the mind of the one that owns it. But what you almost never see is accomplished musicians playing anything under professional level instruments. There is a reason for that, and it's not guitar snobbery.
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post #3 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-01-2014, 11:44 AM
 
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Re: Why so much hate for Indo standard RGs?

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Originally Posted by Rich View Post
LOTS of capitals there, evidently something hit a nerve

The only thing wrong with the EZ2 is its low quality manufacture. It's a very stable bridge, if you read my NAMM reports I've said nothing but that, that now entry level Ibanez finally have a stable trem system, but it has plenty of faults and bugs also.

As for the guitars, they meet a price point. They'll work for a guitar if you need a guitar. Are they professional level instrument? Seriously, ask yourself that question. These are guitars for those with lower budgets, student, or beginners, add those that really don't care about the quality of the guitar they play. Does anybody NEED a better guitar to play? That's in the mind of the one that owns it. But what you almost never see is accomplished musicians playing anything under professional level instruments. There is a reason for that, and it's not guitar snobbery.
Point taken. Would you however say that with some work done, such as setup, pickup swap, maybe fret end finish and polish, and etc, it can be use as a stable gigging guitar?
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post #4 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-01-2014, 11:46 AM
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Re: Why so much hate for Indo standard RGs?

ABSOLUTELY!!

These make perfect guitars for bar bands where you might get a bottle thrown at your head so you're not too keen on taking your J Custom out for the gig
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post #5 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-01-2014, 11:52 AM
 
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Re: Why so much hate for Indo standard RGs?

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Originally Posted by Rich View Post
ABSOLUTELY!!

These make perfect guitars for bar bands where you might get a bottle thrown at your head so you're not too keen on taking your J Custom out for the gig
That is a very good point. I knew someone who got a Jem Junior cause he hit his 7V once when performing. LoL. But the Jem Jr suck really.
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post #6 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-01-2014, 12:17 PM
 
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Re: Why so much hate for Indo standard RGs?

I've been in this spot. If the venue is sketchy I take an Indo or maybe the Premium. Regular Indo's aren't bad with work, and I've been saying that repeatedly here for years.
The precision of their metal parts has always been the dicey part. My RG3EX1 came with a Gotoh copy tailpiece that broke after a few years. Replace with actual Gotoh tailpiece - problem solved! The machine heads are still okay but the nut could probably be replaced or use the graphite trick to keep from having bad slips when tuning.
Like noted - it takes work to make them good instruments.
Now, would I use a standard Indo if I were a professional musician who made a living off music? No. Maybe as a backup at best but not for the rigors of playing all the time. My Premium, yes, but not a straight up Indo.
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post #7 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-01-2014, 12:40 PM
 
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Re: Why so much hate for Indo standard RGs?

When I got back into playing guitar a year ago, I wanted something with a floating trem and bought and RG5EX1. It was actually a pretty darn good guitar! The Edge III has a bad reputation, but with a tremsetter it would have been fine for a guy like me that doesn't use the trem that much. I thought the INF pickups were ok, but a gigging guitarist would probably want to replace them. The build quality and finish was pretty good too, looking back, since I sold it a couple months ago. After selling it I bought an SZ320 made in Korea and it is way better quality than the Indo. I have no problem with the Indo made Ibanez, they are cheap and play pretty good... better than the Chinese guitars I have seen... but the MIK and MIJ Ibanez guitars are definitely better built. Just my 2cents...

I would buy another one though... I just saw a white RG350DX with pearly pickguard on the local Topeka craigslist for $275 obo. I've always wanted a white Ibanez with pearly pickguard! But not this time - I'm saving up for a guitar processor. :-)
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post #8 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-01-2014, 12:43 PM
 
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Re: Why so much hate for Indo standard RGs?

I have nothing good to say for MIK ibanez. Bad experience.
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post #9 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-01-2014, 01:27 PM
 
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Re: Why so much hate for Indo standard RGs?

I have a 2009 Indo RG321MH MOL... plays well with the INF pups in it and the Wizard II neck. I have no complaints...
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post #10 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-01-2014, 03:26 PM
 
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Re: Why so much hate for Indo standard RGs?

Interesting tread (not see it before).

I have to agree with the tread starter, I have great experiences with the Indonesian premium models. Own 5 or 6 myself and have played at least 50 more and haven't found any really bad guitar among them. Some of them are even amazing guitars at the same level of any other Ibanez (or other brand) guitar I own (including LACS, Japan custom shop, prototypes, j customs, signature and prestige).

I would say that they are generally a step down from prestige, but it is not always there and not a big step. Mostly noticeable in attention to details and fret work (not thinking of fret ends).

In my opinion are the premium series the most bang for the buck Ibanez ever made.

Not talking about any other Indonesian models, have to little experience with them.

Edit.
Forgot one thing.
I don't think what country a guitar are built in makes any difference at all.
What makes the difference are what the guitar should cost in the end.
It is economics making difference, not lack of skills.
I am pretty sure that if it was setup to make a 3000 dollar guitar in China would it be one very good guitar, a guitar second to non. With that said, i think it would be impossible to get a guitar that expensive there without putting gold or other silly stuff on it.

/Magnus

Last edited by Ibanez-Mag; 08-01-2014 at 03:33 PM.
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post #11 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-01-2014, 03:56 PM
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Re: Why so much hate for Indo standard RGs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibanez-Mag View Post
Interesting tread (not see it before).

I have to agree with the tread starter, I have great experiences with the Indonesian premium models. Own 5 or 6 myself and have played at least 50 more and haven't found any really bad guitar among them. Some of them are even amazing guitars at the same level of any other Ibanez (or other brand) guitar I own (including LACS, Japan custom shop, prototypes, j customs, signature and prestige).

I would say that they are generally a step down from prestige, but it is not always there and not a big step. Mostly noticeable in attention to details and fret work (not thinking of fret ends).

In my opinion are the premium series the most bang for the buck Ibanez ever made.

Not talking about any other Indonesian models, have to little experience with them.

Edit.
Forgot one thing.
I don't think what country a guitar are built in makes any difference at all.
What makes the difference are what the guitar should cost in the end.
It is economics making difference, not lack of skills.
I am pretty sure that if it was setup to make a 3000 dollar guitar in China would it be one very good guitar, a guitar second to non. With that said, i think it would be impossible to get a guitar that expensive there without putting gold or other silly stuff on it.

/Magnus
Premiums are not relevant to the thread, it's specifically about "standard" Indo, and honestly if you tried 50 Premiums then you know a full half of them had bad neck pocket alignment with the strings shifted to the treble edge that could only be fixed by fixing the pocket.

And as far as a $3000 Chinese Ibanez, did you forget about the $3200 DN2011SCBKC?



Which was nice in the details, but still an absolutely typical Chinese guitar in all other ways.

Country of origin does matter. They're made in Indo because Cort fled Korea so avoid the workers strikes for inhuman working conditions. They had been building guitars in Korea since the 80's and Korea had a history of guitar production so there was plenty of qualified skilled labor. Now shifted to Indonesia where they never built guitars, and had zero skilled labor in production. Workers can be trained to do a job, but real skill only comes with time, and that time hasn't come, yet. The Premium production line are separate workers that were specifically trained by J Custom Luthiers, and look at the problems you still have in Premiums. Not specifically on fret ends, but you could glaringly tell who did what, when the real pros turned production over to the "trainees". So country of origin does matter, a lot.
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post #12 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-01-2014, 04:05 PM
 
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Re: Why so much hate for Indo standard RGs?

There are WAY better ways to spend your money at that price point than an ibanez premium.

Seriously, $1000+ for an indo guitar?!? I can get MiJ ESP at that price or a Carvin...
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post #13 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-01-2014, 04:23 PM
 
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Re: Why so much hate for Indo standard RGs?

Rich, what you just said doesn't make sense. Not to me, at least.

If you can tell when the skilled guys handed over the positions to the new guys, doesn't that imply that it's not the country of origin, but the workers that makes the difference?

Granted, as you mention, the amount of "touch ups" required are higher. When they are fixed, does the guitar suffer from it? Is the result a worse guitar since it's fixed outside of the factory?

I think the definition of "a good guitar" differs a lot.

I'm not a huge fan of MII guitars myself, not that I have tried many. I did try one in Magnus Olsson's guitar shack, and it was great. I have no idea what he had done to it. I'm not sure it matters. A good guitar is a good guitar. Or?
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post #14 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-01-2014, 04:29 PM
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Re: Why so much hate for Indo standard RGs?

The country of origin is somewhat blurred when you have Japanese masters working in Indonesia, and then leaving. There were guitars worked on by Custom Shop craftsman, as they were training the Indo crew. They are no longer there.

Would I consider a fully sorted Premium a good guitar? Sure. I'd consider a fully sorted and modified standard Indo a decent guitar, but that isn't implying they're as good as a Japanese built guitar, because they aren't.
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post #15 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-01-2014, 04:34 PM
 
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Re: Why so much hate for Indo standard RGs?

I'm curious, not sure if this is known, what does the workers actually do? Since they are not trained builders, I would expect jigs and whatever that would get the job done without extensive human interaction.

We know there are people able to build a guitar from scratch. How much practice do you need to make the best of it when you got a whole factory to help you?

If this is unknown, someone must head over to the factory and take a peek.
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